I hadn't thought that the list thread would stir up stuff for me. But it clearly has.
I'm nearly 40, and have complex mental health issues, and have been in treatment for just over 7 years, although the symptoms have been present in one form or another much of my life.
I've never been hospitalised or sectioned, despite at times being quite severely ill, and noticeably so in public [and ridiculed by members of the public for it.]
Maybe it's because of the level of [private, not NHS] support that I do have. Both professionally via my therapist and homeopath and the level of welfare support I have at work. As well as my GP - who is, of course, NHS, but the only NHS provider in my team.
And because I know that a hospital environment is the last thing I need when I'm in my own kind of crisis state. My support team know this too.
Maybe it's also because I've never self harmed 'badly'.
But I see people here way younger than me getting sections, and being in hospital for long periods. And I feel, what, jealous?
In my adult state of thinking, state of mind, personality state, I have no desire for hospital at all, at least not NHS style!
But I want to make it clear that the fact I've never been in hospital for my mental illness doesn't mean I am less seriously ill.
As always, my saving grace is my level of insight into my condition, I guess. It doesn't mean I struggle less, but I do have more responsibility.
I've never been on more than 2 medications at a time, and one of those two being a prn. I was for a time on two anti-depressants. But my treatment plan is for minimum medication. I am happy being minimally medicated. But so many people here are on many medications and have multiple official diagnoses. I just have the one - depression plus other complex symptoms caused by my past.
I just wanted to speak up for myself, and people like me.
It seems important.
Anyone else in a similar situation? What do you think/feel?
I don't think I can say anything particularly useful - other than it's completely understandable that you feel this way and you're definitely not alone in it.
Hospital is horrible, I can't imagine what it would be like to have to be there repeatedly or for long periods. But I understand the need to have your feelings - and your illness - taken seriously.
All I can say is that you are one of the people on RYL that I look up to the most. You've been through so much, and you have a lot to deal with on a daily basis, and the fact that you have so much insight and have managed to learn to cope so well without being hospitalised / sectioned is amazing.
I actually do understand where you're coming from. Being surrounded [here] by so many people with such serious problems, it does have the tendency to make you feel bad, or like your problems aren't important. I sometimes feel like because I don't have such severe issues, my pain can't be important, and I want someone to recognise how much I'm hurting.
Just please know that I / RYL in general doesn't think of you that way. I / we really do recognise how much you've been through and how complex it all is to work through. And you're doing an incredible job.
i can't say it better than void. sometimes i feel like because i've never been hospitalised, i've not been taken seriously, because i see other people on RYL beign treated differently by those in charge of their care. or something like that, though not nearly so coherent in my head! but i know, like you, that it's because of the support i've got outside of hospital, and also the efforts we make (not that thos ewho are hospitalised aren't making an effort of course. not making much sense am i?) that have kept us out. for me it's mostly been my parents, and i am grateful to them for that. hospital may be helpful but it seems for a lot of people it creates new problems too.
i really respect you and the strength you have. thank you too for voicing some of the things i have felt.
Hi Katie. I pretty much agree with what void said.
Sometimes I feel the same even though I've been in hospital 3 times. I've never been sectioned though. But it does seem like "the more sections you have, the worse you are". Which like you said, is not true. The whole purpose in treatment, is to recover or make the symptoms easier to manage. I dont think hospital does that, it's seen as more of a short term treatment who'se primary focus is to keep you and/or other people from harm. Well thats been the case with me.
A point you raised is that you have private care. Which is generally better, so maybe you've able to get help/intervention quicker?
I also think, that in a lot of cases medication can just mask the symptoms and not deal with the cause. Maybe thats what some people want (I know i do) but the fact you have delved much deeper into the roots of your PTSD/depression shows strength and courage.
Often when people are hospitalised it is just them begining to get support set up or is for a short period to keep them 'safe' while in crisis as their support team do not feel able to do so or they don't think those around them can help.
On RYL there is many people who 'brag' about the amount of meds, hospitalisations, diagnosis - to the extent a competitive atmosphere appears. As much as we try to ignore this fact it is true. Also it is an internet forum, we cannot take what people say here as fact all the time.
You have problems, which have affected you the majority of your life, you have a right to your support, and it doesn't mean you are 'less ill' or don't deserve the help you are recieving.
Hospitals like you said are a bad environment for people, and now with the years of deinstitutionalisation professionals have learned that hospital can often be a worsening place for many. That is why often (on adult wards - acute NHS ones) most patients are schizophrenic or bipolar, and are getting meds regulated to deal with a difficult episode.
Being sectioned when someone is suicidal - though potentially necessary, can be bad for that person which can lead to them being in and out and not getting any where. Though can also help set up a treatment plan - once that is done, keeping the person out of hospital is a priority then working on issues surrounding there illness.
Also I want to add - something I have learnt from reading - mild depression can be longer lasting, even more likely to become chronic that major depression. And thus need more treatment and support. Just there is less 'crisis' surrounding it. (sorry thas just a side note to say it isn't always the extreams which determine how debilitating the illness is over a life span.
You are a special, caring, intelligent person. You know that hospital doesn't determine how ill someone is. You know that they can be an awful environment. Just remember to keep that in mind.
You deserve the help and the support you get as you give so much out.
Sorry don't know if this makes sence.
Take care,
Devil x
You made up your mind to torture mine!
If you read a scar like a book, you will relise the story in which you over look
I can understand where you're coming from what with feeling jealous and maybe feeling that other people's problems have been validated more than yours. But what if they were / are more ill than you've ever been? Which they probably have been an are, it's really not something healthy to be envying. Honestly.
I think you're lucky to have had such a decent level of support that you've gotten quite ill yet still managed to stay in the community.
I was inpatient for three whole years from aged 14 - 17, developmental years as I'm sure you know they are so it's more than likely had a lasting negative impact on me an the way I function at least socially at age 24 which I am now so I guess it's struck a chord that you're 'jealous' of this kind of thing because if I could go back and live my life normally and carried on at school and gone onto Uni etc as I would have instead of taken 3 measly GCSE's in hospital I would.
Plus. You're not the only person who will have been effected by the hospital list thread.
Personally I think people should just get over it.
Stop thinking about what I want, what he wants, what your parents want. What do you want?
But what if they were / are more ill than you've ever been? Which they probably have been an are, it's really not something healthy to be envying. Honestly.
I personally don't necessarily think it's about being more ill, rather what treatment is appropriate. For example Katie I know you struggle with anxiety, acute wards are such noisy, unpredictable environments that it can make anxieties worse, rather than providing respite.
I also think it's a lot about personal responsibility and maturity aswell (though obviously in cases of psychosis things are a little different). I think a lot of more immature people end up in hospital because they don't have the maturity to try and engage with services properly and actively fight against their treatment. I think the fact that you have never been hospitalised shows your willingness to work for recovery and that you have the inner resources, coupled with your strong support network which enables you to fight through some really dark times whilst remaining in the community.
I actually agree with what heidi said as well. From personal experience during my first major psychotic episode I got put in the adolecense ward. I had no idea what was happening or how to deal with it. 2 years later I still struggle but have developed some ways to deal with it (kind of) .. so yea. x
I think it's a good thing you've never been hospitalised. It shows that even at your lowest times you've had the skills to cope.
For some people being sectioned is like a badge of honour, and I'll be honest, I felt that way for a while. It felt like I'd finally achieved something by being sectioned, that I was officially ill. But slowly I've realised that being in hosptial doesnt achieve anything, in fact my last admission made me worse. It's far more helpful to learn to deal with things in the community, because you cant be admitted every time you have a suicidal thought, you need to learn to deal with things in the real world which is what you have been doing.
Isn’t it funny how day by day nothing changes but when you look back, everything is different…
you once called your brain a hard drive, well say hello to the virus.
Heidi, I would have to disagree that a lot of more immature people end up in hospitals. Sometimes people try their hardest and work hard with their therapist and psychiatrist, ask for help and give input into their treatment and try very hard to stay out of hospitals, but still reach a level of instability and feel unsafe. Being mature doesn't mean you can't break down.
Katie - I think it is easy to fall into a competition mindset, especially here on RYL. But what other people have done, been through, or where they have been does not minimize in any way your struggle or your accomplishments. As many have said, it's a good thing you've never been hospitalized, it makes it easier to not rely on it, and also you don't really get to implement the coping devices you lean into your daily life because you're stuck there in an unfamiliar environment.
I think it's because of the views of mental health teams and psychiatrists that encourage people to consider being hospitalized as validation of how severe their difficulties are. I know that after I was inpatient doctors took me SO much more seriously than before I'd been in hospital, which is awful, but it can't help make you think that just because you've been in hospital you've reached a 'new level' of illness and distress that might actually match how unstable you feel in yourself. In doing this patients are going to compare themselves in the same way.
When actually how ill you isn't validated by the level of care you're receiving. I think I've said this before but from my point of view mental health problems are very much about validating any pain that wasn't validated/dealt with properly when first experienced at the time so anything that does this effectively, even if it's a label or the experience of being in hospital, can be mistaken by the patient as important.
Hey Katie,
I think its a great thing that you havent had to be hospitilised!
I can tell you now i have no desire to be in hospital and on sections but when i was younger, i couldnt have cared less.
I was sectioned and in hospital numerous times and messed around while in there. I did do some positive work but alot of the time, i didnt want the help and i was immature. Looking back now, i would have done things differently but now, i know what life is like outside of those four walls and i wouldnt want to give this up.
I think hospital is a good way to hide from your problems and it shows courage and strength to recover and survive at home.
But i can understand feeling jealous, i did when i left hospital, i felt alone and lost and wanted to go back but its not the way to live. Now, 5 years since i left my last hospital, i hope to god i never go back to one of those places.
I think you are a real inspiration and those that are in hospital now can see that it is possible to manage at home.
I'm sorry if this is a bit of a ramble, im a little tired! haha.
Take care xxx
Through the dark, a strand of light, the light continued to get bright, with it came the strength to fight (Gem)
I personally don't necessarily think it's about being more ill, rather what treatment is appropriate. For example Katie I know you struggle with anxiety, acute wards are such noisy, unpredictable environments that it can make anxieties worse, rather than providing respite.
I also think it's a lot about personal responsibility and maturity aswell (though obviously in cases of psychosis things are a little different). I think a lot of more immature people end up in hospital because they don't have the maturity to try and engage with services properly and actively fight against their treatment. I think the fact that you have never been hospitalised shows your willingness to work for recovery and that you have the inner resources, coupled with your strong support network which enables you to fight through some really dark times whilst remaining in the community.
This was what i was trying to say :)
Through the dark, a strand of light, the light continued to get bright, with it came the strength to fight (Gem)
Katie, I think what you need to take from this thread is that people recognise that you are ill and struggle alot but that you have the strength and support in place. It doesn't mean you are any less ill just because you haven't been in hospital, section or otherwise.
Yes, I have been in hospital both section (when I was not even particularly ill and thankfully managed to get discharged fairly quickly) and informal (for longer periods) but I have no intention of going back. Yes, it kept me safe when I was extremely unsafe and at the depths but at the end of the last admission when I was getting better, I saw people in there with my illness who are in there with bpd and have been in there months and months and how it has somehow taken away their own coping methods and made them institutionalised, their behaviour is accepted when it should not be, it should be challenged. Yes, in a way, they were immature despite being much older than me. Sorry, rambling. I had a mixed experience in hospital but now I am more stable, the hard work has really started and it would be so easy to give in and let myself go but I want to be able to be like you, work, have maturity and insight and move on from my mh illnesses. It is something you should be proud of.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
I think alot of it depends on the support around you from the nhs. I dont know but it seems in order to get help from them you have to be either really ill or suicidal otherwise they give you as little help as possible - at least in my experiance. So if you dont have alot of people helping you, then people cant see how bad things are or what kind of help you really need, you have to decide that yourself.
"Its not how long a star shines, what is remembered is the brightness of the light"
void. Thank you for understanding, it means a lot.
I take my illness seriously, I take myself seriously. So do the professionals in my care. As also do many here. But the general culture of marginalising the less dramatic or flagrantly destructive, the less 'popular', online here and also on other forums. That's what I'm facing here, that I feel up against.
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the fact that you have so much insight and have managed to learn to cope so well without being hospitalised / sectioned is amazing.
Thank you for that. I agree. Oftentimes, when my Other self has been forefront, my behaviour has indeed been sectionable, had the wrong people been around at the wrong time.
My treatment team trust me to work things through, and I value their trust.
It's hard though. When I was most ill I was supply teaching in inner London. How did I keep going? Well, I had 'practice' from suppressing the pain of years of bullying. Of going into school every day, despite it being akin to entering a war zone. I dissociated, see. The cost of exposure was too great. I was also virtually mute right into my teens.
I think also what I do have are a whole package of coping skills developed over the years, that I'm now starting to be able to properly apply.
tamobhuuta You are making sense to me. It's a complex picture, with many intertwining factors, and no one being the same.
I'm glad I could put into words some of the things you feel. And thank you for your respect, both you and void., it means so much to me.
Ami That does help, thank you. :) For me, delving deep is the only thing I can do. I wouldn't consider even the possibility of doing it another way. It is the only way for me. It's like along with the traumas and illness and abuse, a higher power also gave me the gifts to grow forward and through it with understanding, insight and compassion.
Devil Girl I agree. I've suffered suicidal thoughts many times, but have made it through. I think that's one of the 'advantages' of having splits in my psyche. Along with a very unwell part, I also have a healthy and life affirming part. Part of the aim of my therapy is to build a bridge between the two so that I can support myself more effectively.
I agree with you about the extremes. My medical diagnosis, for what it's worth, is 'Recurrent Depressive Disorder', or 'long standing treatment resistant depression'. Which is basically an undercurrent of ongoing low mood and all the rest of the bundle, along with periods of depression of more severity. But anxiety has always been far more of a struggle for me than the classic depression element. Although self hatred and shame pervades pretty much all of my 'pathology'.
Thank you so much for your support. And it makes total sense.
Ram. You too are worth help and support, really you are. I guess it's a matter of access and resources.
Catherine Thank you for your honesty, and for reflecting more on what you'd first written. It's hard, I know, when personal feelings colour perceptions, and how that can potentially miss the heart of what the other person is saying. I hear how much of your crucial development years were lost to hospitalisation for mental illness. You must have missed so much, family, regular friendships. Yet you had the support that they assessed as necessary for you.
Not to compare, but to expand perspective, during those years of my life I also missed so much. Not because of hospitalisation, but due to abuse, bullying and emotional neglect, and lack of social interaction - pretty much enforced isolation.
It's hard to appreciate a community that one has always been outcast from. Now though things are changing, and I'm becoming more connected with life.
You could also make a thread for issues from that list thread that have been stirred up for you. You also have the right to the space to speak up and explore about how you feel.
Heidi Thank you so much. I agree in many respects. And thank you for recognising my struggles. Yes, anxiety is a major part of my struggle. Only a few weeks ago I couldn't sit in my GP's waiting room around people. A little boy kept coming over and staring at me. I stood on the stairs facing the wall, hiding from him [I was in a dissociated type state at the time] and he continued to stare at me and follow me. I couldn't cope with that, so asked to wait outside and be called when my turn came. I stood in the driveway leaning up against the wall crying. I think they then fast-tracked me through. I'm not always like that, but that state is very close to the surface much of the time.
Sarah Thank you for recognising my ability to cope. I personally think illness and how we cope with it are two different aspects of this. Maybe the distinction is that one can make it through in the community even whilst very ill, as long as one has the skills to manage that illness or to, as my therapist puts it 'bear with it'.
The point I'm making is that I don't want to be in hospital. Rather that I feel that many of us who've not been can be easily sidelined as we don't have the 'drama' factor.
Facet Thank you.
when.will.it.end
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mental health problems are very much about validating any pain that wasn't validated/dealt with properly when first experienced at the time so anything that does this effectively, even if it's a label or the experience of being in hospital, can be mistaken by the patient as important.
I agree. Totally. Especially the part I've italicised.
Also, when I was a child, 9 or so years old, my father threatened with putting me in a strait jacket and having me sent away. This memory filters *all this* for me, and brings up a lot of sadness and other conflicting feelings. Because, as usual, I'm multi-layered, and I have a child state just wanting to be taken care of 24/7, an abusive protector that is, well, exceedingly mentally ill, to put it one way, and me who's keeping a hold of it all and ensuring I function somehow.
Everyone else, you were replying while I was typing my essay up there! I'll come back and reply to your posts either later this evening or tomorrow. :)
I have been in hospital both on sections and informal but i think it is so great that you have never been in one! it shows strenght that i did not have (when i was so against living) and you should be very proud of that.
I dont think that people who end up in hospital are nesecarrily immature though because if you go informal it can show you see that you need help and are willing to accept it and i think that too can be a very brave thing to do especially if you hate going in and it scares you.
I have not been hospitalised, not for anything psychological anyway. CLosest I've come was a few years ago when I ended up in a hospital due to my weight, but that was a medical hospital and al they did was keep me there until my weight increased
Been in hospital a fair few times for physical things that were caused by the psychological issues, but never been in for anything psychological dirrectly
But I don't really have therapy or anything right now... and at times do kind of get jellious or feel like as I don't have the same degree of treatment as others that somehow I am unworthy of it, or of even being here...
But I think alot of the time it's not a matter of how bad or ill someone is but how well they are coping and what is seen as being best for them that determines their treatment or hospitalisation. The fact that you have not been hospitalised just shows that people recognise your strength and ability to cope
I never saw being in hospital as a badge of honour... it was my lowest time ever and everyone I know knew about it, cos you can't really hide a long admission.
I can see it was necessary, but I never aspired or wanted to be in hospital, it was just where I needed to be then.
I can see your point about how it seems to be a bit of a competition as to how many diagnoses, sections, meds you've been on etc (although that thought makes me despair)
but - you have managed to stay out of hospital, you have a treatment team, you are actively engaging with the support you are receiving, I think that says a lot about your inner resources and really, good on you. It certainly doesn't invalidate your experiences or your suffering.
There are not just two options of either being totally fine or being hospitalised. There is an awful lot in between. :)
