I have stolen for food... more than once... first time I did it was when I was homeless and due to lacking an address could not get any benefits (eventually I gained a "care of address" but at first I had nothing), been homeless a few times but only one of those times did I resort to stealing - unless taking the stuff the shop throws out after closing time counts as stealing but I don't think it does.
Other times though I have been in work and have had the cheapest place I could find but still could not afford food.
I also grew up in a household where noone was on benefits but for several days at the end of every month we would be without food, in fact my Mum and brother still live like that - which I cannot understand as she is a teacher (though admitedly part time) and her income is about equal to my partner and mine combined and her rent cheaper... but... she is paying off a LOT of debt as she used to use credit cards a lot when we were in need of things like new clothing or school uniforms and it added up over the years.
I have to admit I dislike these conversations as it makes me feel guilty for having been on job seakers for so long... I came off JSA last week despite only having 4 to 8 hours a week work as I am sick of the way people treat me as some sort of entitled lazy peice of scum, and I just can't cope with the job centre anymore...
I am trying to find a job... and even though I have had to resort to stealing to feed myself in the past I have made my budget last as well as I could, I hardly have any belongings anymore due to the number of times I have had to sell stuff for rent. Only reason we even have internet right now is that my partners parents are paying for it which once again i feel seriously guilty for... as soon as I gain a job they are getting paid back or a pressant or something
I think the other thing that needs to be remembered is that although things like "make a budget", "move home", etc. seem obviously to us, when you are there, in that situration, it's different... panic and survival kicks in. Often you have no idea where to go for help, and often the help doesnt even help anyway.
And once someone is in this situration it's hard to get out, it's ok if you see it coming and change things, but once it's happened you become almost trapped... on the moving thing, for example, it's supprisingly hard to get a place to live when you have no job, and even harder if you have fallen behind on rent. And what about finding a deposit? IF someone can't afford food I doubt that they have a months rent worth of money just laying around
The thing is, when you are malnourished and hungry, survival does become the priority. Think about it; malnourished -> weak/cold/tired/ill -> unable to work -> poorer -> less food available ...
I find it sad that there is a lack of empathy for people who clearly are desperate.
Its highly judgemental to condemn the actions of a person who's life you have not lived. Some people can make changes to their budget, yeah, some people can move homes; but in many cases there are circumstances a person finds themselves in through no fault of their own [partners sisters partner got laid off multiple times due to workforce cuts for example; the same day he lost his job he was out handing CVs to everywhere he could!].
I don't know if anyone has come across this, but zero hour contracts are a serious problem. But a job is better than no job in the interim and I am sure those judgemental enough to condemn a person on jobseekers or equivalent would want a person to take a zero hour contract over benefits. It may be that one week there is no work available; but these people cannot just claim a benefit for a week [understandably].
There are so many complex sets of circumstances out there; and there are people too poor to feed themselves and their family; accept it or not, its a fact. You can reduce it, but poverty does exist and I am not talking about relative poverty.
Allotments are not easy to obtain, there are waiting lists. Language barriers exist. Transport is key to getting 'good deals' for many people in rural areas. People can be as creative as possible to get round some of the problems, but problems still exist and there isn't always an answer for everything.
Last edited by MissAnonymous : 24-09-2013 at 10:03 PM.
As for stealing food that a shop throws out, I remember a news story about a homeless woman taking some food from the bins outside a Tesco. She was caught and got arrested for it. Which seems a bit stupid.
I'm fine! Totally fine. I don't know why it's coming out all loud and squeaky, 'cause really, I'm fine!
To bring this back to the original post, those who have opposing views - do you think that all thievs should be treated the same way?
Hypothetically, say stealing meant 5 years in jail - do you think a kid who can't be arsed to save up money to buy a game so he stole it should be punished int he same way as a woman needing to fed her children who got desperate and stole bread?
I think it should be different simply because they are different cases, mother stealing to put food on table is completely different and that person should be treated with compassion and sympathy/empathy, she probably had no choice to steal food either that or watch her kids starve.
Whereas a kid stealing video game is completely different, he probably can afford the game, he can save up just he decided he couldn't be bothered and was too lazy to save up for if so therefore he should be treated as criminal.
Have you ever confused a dream with life? Or stolen something when you have the cash? Have you ever been blue? Or thought your train moving while sitting still? Maybe I was just crazy. Maybe it was the 60's. Or maybe I was just a girl... interrupted.
I know what it's like to want to die. How it hurts to smile. How you try to fit in but you can't. How you hurt yourself on the outside to try to kill the thing on the inside. I tried groups, didn't work out just made my depression a lot worse.
what if the kid did it out of peer pressure though? Or if they were being bullied for not having the item or for being "poor"? Esspecially if they are younger kid I can see how they might feel like stealing it was the only real option.
There are many variables on this topic, and there is ALWAYS a reason behind stealing, how can we really judge what is or isn't a justifiable reason?
Ok so if some people are saying that stealing food is kind of ok if you're too poor to buy anything and you're literally at the bottom with no other option, what about those people who steal food because of a mental health issue? I used to know someone who would steal certain items because of OCD.
So are those cases less deserving of sympathy/leniency because they werent below the breadline? You could argue that these people have no choice either.
If they arent less deserving then where is the line? Because if people knew that they could get away with it by saying they were abused or whatever then loads more people would say it and there would be no way of telling.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
But you always get the one just does it because he can't be bothered to save or does it for attention or because he's bored
Have you ever confused a dream with life? Or stolen something when you have the cash? Have you ever been blue? Or thought your train moving while sitting still? Maybe I was just crazy. Maybe it was the 60's. Or maybe I was just a girl... interrupted.
I know what it's like to want to die. How it hurts to smile. How you try to fit in but you can't. How you hurt yourself on the outside to try to kill the thing on the inside. I tried groups, didn't work out just made my depression a lot worse.
Have you ever confused a dream with life? Or stolen something when you have the cash? Have you ever been blue? Or thought your train moving while sitting still? Maybe I was just crazy. Maybe it was the 60's. Or maybe I was just a girl... interrupted.
I know what it's like to want to die. How it hurts to smile. How you try to fit in but you can't. How you hurt yourself on the outside to try to kill the thing on the inside. I tried groups, didn't work out just made my depression a lot worse.
The thing is, when you are malnourished and hungry, survival does become the priority. Think about it; malnourished -> weak/cold/tired/ill -> unable to work -> poorer -> less food available ...
I find it sad that there is a lack of empathy for people who clearly are desperate.
Its highly judgemental to condemn the actions of a person who's life you have not lived.
You know nothing about me or my life or my history. I think the only ones being judgmental are those assuming I know nothing about that sort of life. I may not have lived every single scenario, but I sure as hell know poverty and desperation.
[/quote]I don't know if anyone has come across this, but zero hour contracts are a serious problem. But a job is better than no job in the interim and I am sure those judgemental enough to condemn a person on jobseekers or equivalent would want a person to take a zero hour contract over benefits. It may be that one week there is no work available; but these people cannot just claim a benefit for a week [understandably]. [/quote]
Zero hours contracts can, in some cases, be very useful. It ultimately depends on the type of contract (they aren't all the same!) and the sector you are in, as well as your own circumstances. I have a friend paying a mortgage who works on a zero hours contract, she makes about the same as me in a month on full-time. It'd be better if she was in a guaranteed-income role, but she makes it work for her.
The benefits can be a hassle, I agree, but so is not getting Tax Credits until you are twenty-five. The world isn't perfect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePrincessOfDenial
To bring this back to the original post, those who have opposing views - do you think that all thievs should be treated the same way?
Hypothetically, say stealing meant 5 years in jail - do you think a kid who can't be arsed to save up money to buy a game so he stole it should be punished int he same way as a woman needing to fed her children who got desperate and stole bread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnylove911
But you always get the one just does it because he can't be bothered to save or does it for attention or because he's bored
We are not the lawyers or the judges, we simply say whether or not they are guilty. In that case, both parties are guilty.
Everyone has a different definition of 'essential' goods and services. Your essentials/priorities are rent, council tax, utilities (gas/electricity), child maintenance, income tax, food and TV licence. Beyond that, it is subjective. A lot of people consider a mobile phone an essential, others the Internet, others a car and all its associated costs, etc.
Everyone will have a reason for stealing something, and who is to decide what is 'justifiable' or not?
Ok so if some people are saying that stealing food is kind of ok if you're too poor to buy anything and you're literally at the bottom with no other option, what about those people who steal food because of a mental health issue? I used to know someone who would steal certain items because of OCD.
Me me me. I mentioned this up there ^ somewhere.
But when I was really unwell ED-wise and was binging/purging like five billion times a day, I ran out of money (for everyhting, not just food) and rather than worrying about how I'd pay the electricity or gas my response was to steal because I HAD to binge and purge. I believed if I didn't people would be hurt and I had to keep them safe.
I think if I'd got caught, I wouldn't have been charged/convicted. I spoke to my CC about it at the time and my fears of getting caught (which were tiny compared to my fears of not purging) and she said it was unlikely I'd get in to trouble because I have 'severe' mental health problems.
I think you have to take it case by case, which obviously makes things hard as you can't practically do that.
All I know is that there are ALWAYS reason why someone has stolen something. And it's important to listen to what those reasons are. Not everyone should be treated in the same way after stealing.
Like, robbing a bank is different to taking bread. And robbing/mugging with a weapon is different to pocketing a phone from a table.
I think the situation should be taken into account, and the punishment/rehabilitation measure given appropriaty.
Yep, when I have to have more prescriptions I'll go for the prepayment option. :) Right now I only have one and a half [one's prn] so it doesn't save anything.
On a more topical note, I've done voluntary work with the homeless. Most of them had mobile phones. I don't quite know how they got them but it is important to have a means of communication. Also, speaking for many people, I don't have a landline, so have to have a mobile.
I survive without a TV and licence! And have done for about 15 years!
I was meaning for those with a television. The TV licence is pretty much considered on the same level as council tax when it comes to payment priority. If you don't pay, you can be jailed. It's unlikely, but that's the way it goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePrincessOfDenial
But when I was really unwell ED-wise and was binging/purging like five billion times a day, I ran out of money (for everyhting, not just food) and rather than worrying about how I'd pay the electricity or gas my response was to steal because I HAD to binge and purge. I believed if I didn't people would be hurt and I had to keep them safe.
So if the same applied to a material, non-essential good (like a game) it would be fine? That there are voices telling the person that they have to take it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellata
On a more topical note, I've done voluntary work with the homeless. Most of them had mobile phones. I don't quite know how they got them but it is important to have a means of communication. Also, speaking for many people, I don't have a landline, so have to have a mobile.
It's important, but not quite on the same level as food and shelter. This is what I mean. I could live quite happily without my phone, I barely use it, but I have friends who might as well be surgically attached to theirs.
Re having some kind of phone - But what about emergencies like a child illness? Or even simple regular doctors, dentists etc etc appointments. And sorting out benefits, getting work [you need to have a contact number]. I'm sure there's other reasons phones are important too.
Phones of whatever type are far more essential than a TV and attached TV licence, I believe. Especially in these days of there being very very few phone boxes, and of those very few are in tact!
I was meaning for those with a television. The TV licence is pretty much considered on the same level as council tax when it comes to payment priority. If you don't pay, you can be jailed. It's unlikely, but that's the way it goes.
So if the same applied to a material, non-essential good (like a game) it would be fine? That there are voices telling the person that they have to take it?
It's important, but not quite on the same level as food and shelter. This is what I mean. I could live quite happily without my phone, I barely use it, but I have friends who might as well be surgically attached to theirs.
Not 'fine' But certainly the focus of the punishment should be treatment to help them not act on the voices commands, rather than just fine/jail time. They should def cover costs/give is back if they get caught, but I think helping the person understand why they took it, and how not to do it again should be the first port of call.
And even for those who do if repeatedly... like, it's bad yes but there is a reason, and maybe with help they could work it out and if they wanted to stop, make some changes
Also, having a pay as you go phone is pretty cheap if you already have it. Topping it up when you need to make important phone calls works out cheaper than paying a monthly fee if you're not using it for socialising/work.
which once again i feel seriously guilty for... as soon as I gain a job they are getting paid back or a pressant or something
