I'll try to make this debate as coherent as possible.
There are many posts that I have seen in live view where posters have spoken about seeing someone showing scars and labeling them as attention seekers, because they don't hurt themselves 'badly' or too deeply yet will wear short sleeves/shorts/cropped tops/etc despite scars and wounds.
Often when this is discussed more than one poster will proclaim the person who has been seen showing scars is an attention seeker and obviously doesn't have real problems or needs to get over themselves.
Of course, this seems to be a minority, but it's led me to believe there is a culture on this site (and maybe other sites of people who self harm) where people can judge others in the street for being an attention seeker, because they show scars or are flippant about the subject.
Its not a too regular occurrence but often many discussions crop up where someone makes a comment about how they despise attention seekers and then several other poster will come in to comment on how surely self harm is a drastic measure to go to for attention. Other posters may agree or disagree challenging the beliefs, or not.
It may just be me, but there was a discussion awhile ago (I know because one or two people said how they began to hurt themselves because they wanted attention) and it seemed that many people were viewed as not having a real reason to self harm, because they didn't have bad enough problems, this was from others who self harm.
As a group we hear a lot of it from the media & supposed outside sources of others who don't self harm & look down on the behaviour, but I am seeing more of it happen between people who self harm.
I am sad to hear that people criticise showing scars as "attention-seeking". There are many reasons why people may show their scars - for one, simple one, why should people be forced to wear long sleeves all the time just because of some scars?
I do, however, believe that showing cuts/scars can be a form of communication. This should not be judged or criticsed, but understood. And the person should be helped to find new, more effective ways of communicating their needs and distress.
I'll admit that people being flippant about the injuries that they cause to themselves does frustrate me, but that's because self harm is concerning and should be taken seriously. However I do think that the flippant-ness is a defence against the real feelings.
I think that this happens. I won't ever say something like that to someone, cuz it's terrible, but I know it happens, and I did know someone who did self harm only because they wanted the attention. But I think that people who self harm sometimes judge themselves a little harsher for their self harm, and then it sort of spreads to them judging others for others' self harm. Does that make sense? I hope so.
"Wish that I could cry,
Fall apon my knees,
Find a way to lie,
About the home I'll never see"
Superman by Five For Fighting
i've seen it around so much and it's hilarious because the people who are bitching about other people in their class being attention seekers are the same losers who will get their panties in a twist if someone so much as even hints that they might be hurting themselves for attention.
i do not understand the culture of one self harmer calling out another one as "attention seeking" but maybe that is mostly because i don't see what's so wrong with attention seeking. i think calling someone attention seeking is just one small step from saying "well what do you have to be so sad about?" as if anybody has to justify the way they feel or why they're feeling it.
I see no problem showing scars. I have done when I have had just scars and no wounds. The only time I don't show scars even when just scars is around my nieces and nephews as I don't believe they should have to know.
I am not an attention seeker, just sick of sweltering in the heat. I don't uncover them so that others can see them, I do it for me and it someone has a problem with it so be it but it is their problem, not mine.
I worry about people showing wounds purely from a medical point of view but also perhaps this is the only way they can communicate that things are not right, that they need some support.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
I think it's probably a bit of self-loathing being externalised. Sort of so people judge themselves for self-harming and then project this judgementalness onto others.
I think it might also be jelousy. Some people tie themselves up in knots coming up with inventive and discreet ways of hiding scars and even avoid activities that they would otherwise enjoy such as swimming. To then see someone out and about without seeming to give a second thought about their scars probably when it might feel impossible for the person viewing them to let their own scars show might seem like that person must be attention seeking because otherwise why aren't they feeling the shame and embarassment that others do.
I had an interesting chat in a bar with a guy the other week. He was moaning about how he was sweltering in long sleeves, but he was too embarassed about an old surgical scar down his arm and he worried that people might think he'd tried to slit his wrists. I thought he was telling me that because my own scars were clearly visible, so I pointed out how most people didn't give my own scars a second glance so they wouldn't with his either. It turned out he hadn't even noticed mine. This has gone off at a bit of a tangent, but I just thought it interesting that someone could share the worries of being identified as a self harmer, but also that he didn't notice obviously self-inflicted scarring, whereas lots of self harmers I know can spot them at 50 paces kind of thing.
A while ago I actually saw someone post about how people they had seen who self harmed were attention seekers because their cuts were basically nothing more than scratches. It makes me very sad to see people say things like that and I think its true to say that these people are more judgemental.Especially as theres quite a lot of people here who dont have scars etc and I think it perpetuates the theory that if you dont have scars youre not a 'real' self harmer.
I think people are too quick to get defensive about the whole attention seeking thing....its not necessarily a bad thing to seek attention.
Some people are just flippant generally, or just dont want a fuss to be made or whatever,it doesnt frustrate me. But yeah I agree with it seeming like people who self harm are a lot more judgemental about people who are ok with showing cuts/scars etc.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
i see showing scars, for me personally, as just anotyher thing.....self harm is not a good thing in my life, but it is part of who i am today. there are soem situations i feel people should cover up...eg around children, i wouldnt want to explain, but wehen you are out with friends or anything similer i think it is a form of....i cant think of appropritae phrasing, but saying.....this is soemthing taht has happened, it has made me who i am today, and you need to get over it.
people who are judgemental often are so because they so insucure about themselfs i find
We are so accustomed to disguise ourselves to others that in the end we become disguised to ourselves.
I think it might also be jelousy. Some people tie themselves up in knots coming up with inventive and discreet ways of hiding scars and even avoid activities that they would otherwise enjoy such as swimming. To then see someone out and about without seeming to give a second thought about their scars probably when it might feel impossible for the person viewing them to let their own scars show might seem like that person must be attention seeking because otherwise why aren't they feeling the shame and embarassment that others do.
I think this is a good point.
When I was at school I kept myself covered at all times but a girl in my psychology class suddenly started rolling up her sleeves to reveal a cut. She would do it every class and, honestly, I was mad.
It felt like, although I hid my cuts and scars, I was desperate for someone to notice and to help me...all she had to do was give herself one cut and she got everyone rallied around her. Some called her out for being an attention seeker but most hugged her and supported her. Including the teachers.
I was mad because I was jealous. I was desperate for the "attention" but wasn't brave enough to put it out there. She may or may not have been showing her cut deliberately, but it felt that way to me.
Over time I learnt that self harm wasn't about how many, how deep, how often and really, there doesn't necessarily have to be a "reason" for it, But I think in some small part, to some people, it DOES matter because it validates how they feel.
Perhaps when you are that brutal to yourself and get no help or support for it, it can be hard to watch someone with a smaller cut get all the guidance.
I hope that makes sense.
I don't think it justifies people being so judgemental but I think it is why people can be judgemental.
Tricky one, this. I think that some people do harm for attention (I've personally known people who have literally just scratched their arms a bit, worn sleeves and physically come up to me and gone "look what I did. I self-harmed") - however, I don't think this is necessarily a reason to look down on someone. If they feel the need to go to such drastic measures for attention their issues are obviously pretty significant to them and they also need help. Even if their reasons may be different to those who do it deeply and hide it, it doesn't mean their problems are less.
I think that part of the nature of some mental illness (especially depression) is the idea of feeling worse off than others, and perhaps this comes out as "you have it easy compared to me". I don't know.
I don't hide my scars anymore. I consider myself 95% recovered. does that make me attention seeking?
The only time I think about people being attention seeking is when they go out of their way to make sure people notice and worry about them, then refuse to talk/show/tell more information. It's manipulative.
But I don't judge in terms of 'omg, you're so attention seeking'. it's irritating, but I think about the pain they are hiding, and why they feel they have to manipulate people in that way. What is really going on?
Not sure if this will make sense...but sometimes I crave attention. I WANT people to see my cuts and see how I'm feeling. But I don't. I never ever ever do. I remain happy and cheery on the outside and no-one ever suspects a thing because I know in reality, I wouldn't actually like people knowing. Strange dichotomy.
Anyway, so when someone mentions self harm, or suspects there are issues with say, a friend...I try to be sincerely empathetic, but on the inside I'm also feeling jealous and albiet slightly judgemental. Almost like behind my smile I'm screaming: I have problems too! Stop thinking I'm the perfect one! If only you saw what I do to my body! Er, I feel like a freak now haha :P
I'd just like to add - attention-seeking isn't always a negative thing. It can be - and people can be hugely manipulative about it, please don't get me wrong - but if you're using self-harm as a form of communication and you're trying to reach out for help, it's great that you are reaching out for help, however it may be.
I do think people are too willing to throw about 'attention-seeking' as an overly negative thing, when actually trying to communicate with people about the fact that you're struggling can be a very positive thing too.
RYL has a habit of, I think, normalising internalisation - it doesn't mean to, but by the nature of the site it means that people are keeping things secret that can be damaging for their health - and when you see people criticising people for being brave (or in my case, lazy) enough to show scars, it continues this attitude that they are something to be hidden, that you shouldn't show that you're struggling.
I know that's not quite what you were talking about, but it's something I've been thinking about. Sorry
Though there are people who are attention seekers, I think everyone has the right have their motives for self-harming validated. I do not think that wearing short sleeves with scars visible is automatically attention seeking, however, flaunting the fact that you hurt yourself could cross over into attention seeking territory. More times than not, wearing short sleeves is just because it's f*cking uncomfortable to wear long sleeves in summer heat. Moreover, it's an attempt to not let you past/ present harming habits control your life. I think wearing short sleeves and having scars visible is brave. I'm not brave enough, and it's f*cking 32°C outside right now. x_x
Like Dreaming said, sometimes wearing short sleeves isn't an attempt at getting sympathy from friends, but rather to hope someone will notice they need some comfort. There's nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
And in regards to self-harmers judging other harmers based on the degree to which they harm, that's sick and hypocritical. For christ's sake, it's not a contest. Nothing more to say about that.
Nous avons abrité tous les rêves du monde,
Et c'est dans le soleil que nous avons grandi.
There are many posts that I have seen in live view where posters have spoken about seeing someone showing scars and labeling them as attention seekers, because they don't hurt themselves 'badly' or too deeply yet will wear short sleeves/shorts/cropped tops/etc despite scars and wounds.
This annoys me so much that I cannot even verbalise/write how much. Not only does it propagate the idea that the worse the injury, the worse the emotion, it's also downright rude. Whilst I wouldn't show (bad) wounds in public, why shouldn't I show any marks on my skin? What about those who have been in accidents? Those who have been in fires, car crashes, whatever? Or is that okay because it wasn't self-inflicted?
I think some self-harmers think that it is somewhat 'cool' to self-harm, and those who don't appear to have a good reason (do we need a reason? How do you know what that person in the street is feeling?) aren't allowed to join the exclusive club.
(Those questions aren't directed at anyone in particular, just thinking out loud.)
i have admittedly mentioned a girl i know who i call an 'attention seeker' and i did say that i know it seems awfully rude of me but in this particular circumstance i am correct in my 'labelling' in general sense i do not agree at all with the labelling of self harmers as attention seekers in the same way that i don't agree with self harmers being called 'cutters'
in my opinion any self harmer who can show their scars is very brave and shouldn't be thought of as anything else.
I don't hide my scars, not hidden them for years... There are a couple that I keep hidden but that's more because of them being keloids and so just nasty looking than due to their origin. I honestly don't see why I should hide them, I wouldn't walk about with recent wounds, but once they are scars then I don't bother hding them any more. I mean I don't draw attention to them or anything, but if someone sees them I don't really care, and if they ask about them I will tell them the truth... I see no point in lying and to be honest even if I tried I don't think I could hide them all as some are in stupid places. The way I see it, if someone had been in an accident then noone would ask them to hide the scars, and only about 10% of non-self-harmers assume self-harm when they see scars anyway, I think that we (the selfharm "community" - for want of a better word) only jump to the conclusion of self-harm due to our own experiances.
over the years I have had a few people come up to me regarding the scars, and had some be fairly nasty about them, but most people just don't mention them. Then again I go round schools and give talks on mental health and abuse (or at least I did before I moved home, not set up here yet) and I find that after them I have the most trouble... Get people coming up to me and being really nasty about it all telling me that I must be a "faker" as a genurine self-harmer/abuse-victim would be "too ashamed to speak about such things"
I guess people just have an expectation of how they think people should act in any given situation, and when people act outside of that expectation it challenges these veiws and expectations which makes the mind have to come up with reasons and exceptions to these rules. (I have a book with a chapter on this type of thing but think it's still packed in a box somewhere)
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I think it might also be jelousy. Some people tie themselves up in knots coming up with inventive and discreet ways of hiding scars and even avoid activities that they would otherwise enjoy such as swimming. To then see someone out and about without seeming to give a second thought about their scars probably when it might feel impossible for the person viewing them to let their own scars show might seem like that person must be attention seeking because otherwise why aren't they feeling the shame and embarassment that others do.
I've never thought of that... but it does make a lot of sense
Often, people do need attention. [Everyone needs attention, it's a core human need.] But they've not learned or assimulated or whatever healthy ways about it, or their level of emotional development may at times, or all the time, not be able to coherently think through appropriate ways of reaching for human connection. Things get distorted and twisted out of shape.
