But in a nutshell: iris color doesn’t change noticeably over mere hours or days, and lens defects aren’t be spontaneously fixed nor is asthma suddenly cured by a change of thought patterns in the brain. These things are perhaps not physically impossible, but the great preponderance of the evidence is that they aren’t biologically feasible.
You don't have DID (no first hand experience)... so you either know someone with DID and haven't witnessed this (second hand), or you've read about this (ie no experience) and you are telling us that our experience isn't 'biologically feasible'?
Our experience, and those of others here prove that it is feasible, and does happen. This is a support thread for people who experience dissociation, not a science project or study. Our experiences are valid.
Hey shadow,
Sorry to hear about the issues online, instead of arguing with them could you write out everything you want to say, as angry or long as you want? That might be less destructive for you. We can understand getting caught up in it though.
Sorry to hear about the nightmares. We try and write ours down, and we sometimes talk with our T about them, she almost always helps us understand them, and more often than not it becomes obvious to us the moment we speak them (hehe whoops). Or if you want to share here, we'll always listen.
Hannah, You don't have to post, but we're here if you do.
Hannah -- Are you safe? I worry about you all the time. Take care, and if you want to talk we'll listen.
Does anyone else just want all of this to be over? I mean the trauma stuff. I really want to just get into healing work with my therapist, but she says I have to be stable first. Otherwise, we are doing fine.
@Navas: What is your point for coming here? I don't understand. You seem to say a lot without really communicating, if you know what I mean.
Last edited by PaleMoon : 18-07-2010 at 03:45 PM.
Reason: add-on
My name is Matt, and I am a boy. Feel free to PM me :)
I have learned that the world is not a safe place. Not at all. But there are so many people who love me and want to keep me safe. And that is enough.
@navas - hello. Erm as everyone I am a little confused by your posts, I understand that you find all this interestng but I have to admit it is disconserting to feel as if you are studying us like lab rats...
Alright, so I'm just randomly popping back in. I want to apologize if I made anyone feel unwelcome. But I'm still allowed to post in here even if I have disagreements, right?
@Navas - Bascially, as everyone else has said, it's odd that you are posting in here with no first hand knowledge, and not being dissociative. It does feel a bit as if we are some experiment. Personally, my therapist has told me that when I switch, my face changes, things like cheekbones and how the jaw looks. I personally have pictures of myself, and my alters have pictures the took of themselves, and the differences are definitely noticeable. I'm not talking about eye color, though. Mostly facial structure.
ok got stuff to say.. eye color is absolutely possible. .. i dont know if my eye color changes with who is out or not.. but before i even knew about Sadie and sarah.. my eye color has always changed. ive had people think they are blue and for my entire 8 and a half yr marriage to abusive ex he thought my eyes were brown.
my eyes are GREEN.lol
sorry but this conor dude is sorta pissing me off. I mean i understand interest as Hiding was interested in learning and understanding disoociation before sarah and i came to be known.. sound coincedental huh? ..it wasnt.. but damn it dont come in here saying want pepel know as there own realities their own truths and call us liars. it isnt right.
sorry that is as nice as i can even try to be. SADIE
I has somting say to. tat persin scars me. mayb it just pictur him has , but him scars me. Sarah
Megan, and all, my face also changes shape and appearance. My therapist has noticed it, and I see it too, in the mirror. It's very disconcerting.
Eyes are very much coloured by emotions anyway. I know mine are. Mine are green, but at have times seemed/been blue practically. My therapist was surprised when I told her my eyes are actually green...
KitKat, in response to a comment on the previous page about not being able to find a forum with women who have been abused by women. There's a (sexual abuse) forum called Beyond Silence that seems very supportive and has an area for people who have experienced all different kinds of sexual abuse from different people. I don't know if this helps.
sorry know this is out in left field but to disappear above- love your little status comment thingie.. love that beatles song.. esp. bono's version in across the universe.. he does an awesome job with it.
uh.. its isnt goo goo g'joob ha! its coo coo cachoo hahaah
SADIE
Last edited by hidingme : 18-07-2010 at 05:35 PM.
Reason: sadie corrections
oh yeah you GOTTA rent the movie..Across the Universe. its all beatles songs in the entire thing but they are done a bit differently.. but it does not ruin the original songs it makes then BETTER.. amust see.. i had to buy the movie i really loved it. Hiding
I study everything and everyone I come into contact with. I study myself. It’s just my nature; I’m a student. I assume others are often studying me also, and it’s not a feeling that makes me especially uncomfortable. I find it reassuring actually, because I want to be understood. Of course it’s disconcerting when others seem to be coming to incorrect conclusions about you, which is always a risk. When I think that’s happening, I try to tell them so.
The idea that I’m “studying you like lab rats” seems to imply that I don’t care at all about you as people, or even that I regard you as something less than human. Both of which are not the case. The phrase also tends to connote a sense of superiority and a degree of arrogance on the part of the observer, which I do my best to avoid.
I didn’t mean to imply that I don’t think anyone has had such experiences or that they’re not valid. Nor that I think anyone is a “liar”.
Just that they are essentially illusory, or due to confirmation bias, like for example noticing some of the hues in the iris, which isn’t uniform, and discounting the others.
Or in some cases maybe they’re the effects of changes in behavior (which might not be highly conscious/intentional) while in different states, e.g. being willing to squint to compensate for not wearing corrective lenses and/or being willing to deal with some blurriness, or downplaying or exaggerating the severity of an asthma attack in order to appear more or less vulnerable, or being more psychologically stressed in some states such as could exacerbate an attack via sympathetic nervous response, and so forth.
Of course your face can change according to how you’re feeling, to some extent. It’s something you have muscular control over and an important part of communication. But eye color is another thing.
I don’t know anyone (other than online) who’s told me they have DID. But if I had, and hadn’t seen their eyes change color rapidly or whatever, that would of course hardly be proof that it doesn’t happen at all.
And indeed there is no proof that it doesn’t happen at all. I could be wrong. But all the available evidence leads me to think it’s very unlikely that I’m wrong.
Rare phenomena could easily be missed by an individual but I have a hard time believing that things as astounding as rapid eye color shifts wouldn’t have been seriously investigated at some point. I was looking for several hours to see if I could find some substantiated reference to rapid eye color shifts as being a possibility in humans, and haven’t found anything. If you have, I’ll be happy to look at it.
So anyway, in the absence of such evidence, I think the most likely explanation is that such experiences are psychological effects, which have a certain kind of reality, but not of the sort that’s denoted by a literal interpretation of sentences like “My eyes change color according to my mood” or whatever.
Quote:
He's using the (fallacy) that eye color is physically incapable of changing.
Actually, no I’m not. Eye color does change, but it does so over intervals of at least a few months as melanin particles are synthesized and degraded at differing rates, or gradually migrate to different locations in the eye.
There are creatures like cuttlefish and chameleons that change their skin color *very* rapidly (especially the cuttlefish, and they’re so CUTE), because they have the needed mechanisms (muscularly controlled chromatophore pouches, and so forth). But there’s no evidence that humans have comparable mechanisms in their irises.
=0.0=
Last edited by Navas : 18-07-2010 at 06:54 PM.
Reason: added response to specific comment
I study everything and everyone I come into contact with. I study myself. It’s just my nature; I’m a student. I assume others are often studying me also, and it’s not a feeling that makes me especially uncomfortable. I find it reassuring actually, because I want to be understood. Of course it’s disconcerting when others seem to be coming to incorrect conclusions about you, which is always a risk. When I think that’s happening, I try to tell them so.
The idea that I’m “studying you like lab rats” seems to imply that I don’t care at all about you as people, or even that I regard you as something less than human. Both of which are not the case. The phrase also tends to connote a sense of superiority and a degree of arrogance on the part of the observer, which I do my best to avoid.
I didn’t mean to imply that I don’t think anyone has had such experiences or that they’re not valid. Nor that I think anyone is a “liar”.
Just that they are essentially illusory, or due to confirmation bias, like for example noticing some of the hues in the iris, which isn’t uniform, and discounting the others.
Or in some cases maybe they’re the effects of changes in behavior (which might not be highly conscious/intentional) while in different states, e.g. being willing to squint to compensate for not wearing corrective lenses and/or being willing to deal with some blurriness, or downplaying or exaggerating the severity of an asthma attack in order to appear more or less vulnerable, or being more psychologically stressed in some states such as could exacerbate an attack via sympathetic nervous response, and so forth.
Of course your face can change according to how you’re feeling, to some extent. It’s something you have muscular control over and an important part of communication. But eye color is another thing.
I don’t know anyone (other than online) who’s told me they have DID. But if I had, and hadn’t seen their eyes change color rapidly or whatever, that would of course hardly be proof that it doesn’t happen at all.
And indeed there is no proof that it doesn’t happen at all. I could be wrong. But all the available evidence leads me to think it’s very unlikely that I’m wrong.
Rare phenomena could easily be missed by an individual but I have a hard time believing that things as astounding as rapid eye color shifts wouldn’t have been seriously investigated at some point. I was looking for several hours to see if I could find some substantiated reference to rapid eye color shifts as being a possibility in humans, and haven’t found anything. If you have, I’ll be happy to look at it.
So anyway, in the absence of such evidence, I think the most likely explanation is that such experiences are psychological effects, which have a certain kind of reality, but not of the sort that’s denoted by a literal interpretation of sentences like “My eyes change color according to my mood” or whatever.
Actually, no I’m not. Eye color does change, but it does so over intervals of at least a few months as melanin particles are synthesized and degraded at differing rates, or gradually migrate to different locations in the eye.
There are creatures like cuttlefish and chameleons that change their skin color *very* rapidly (especially the cuttlefish, and they’re so CUTE), because they have the needed mechanisms (muscularly controlled chromatophore pouches, and so forth). But there’s no evidence that humans have comparable mechanisms in their irises.
=0.0=
I get what you mean, but it's not everyone who likes to be observed and studied by other people like they were some science project...I know I wouldn't like...
Not being disrespectful to you, but what the change of eyes' colours has to do with DID? in my opinion, nothing...
I write this alone on my bed; I've poisoned every room in the house; The place is quiet and so alone; Pretend there's something worth waiting for; There's nothing nice in my head The adult world took it all away; Wake up with same spit in my mouth; Cannot tell if it is real or not; I try and walk in a straight line An imitation of dignity- MSP - From despair to Where
I am human and I need to be loved just like everybody else does - The Smiths How Soon is Now
*nods at Katie*
And again, if you don't have dissociative issues, there is no reason for you to be posting here. We don't particularly want to be studied, nor do we want to study you...
