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Old 03-06-2009, 12:06 AM   #1
Feel_Good_inc.
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The disturbing origins of 5 common nursery rhymes

I almost didn't get this list up in time. My laptop is the only computer in the house with World of Warcraft on it and a couple of other members of the family have picked up the addiction. I just had to put my foot down, and threaten to change my password so they couldn't get on anymore, in order to reclaim my property.

Let's face it: everything is a lot more horrifying than you thought when you were a kid. Pick even the most childlike, innocent thing you can think of, and the odds are that there's a deeply disturbing story behind it.
For instance, nursery rhymes. We grew up memorizing these seemingly nonsense lines of verse from Mother Goose, which seem to exist for no other reason than to keep toddlers entertained. There couldn't possibly be some kind of weird, twisted history to them, could there?
Well, guess what ...

#5.
Three Blind Mice




Three blind mice, three blind mice,

See how they run, see how they run,
They all ran after the farmer's wife,
Who cut off their tails with a carving knife,
Did you ever see such a thing in your life,
As three blind mice?

We Thought it Meant...
A trio of unfortunate rodents on a mission to find out where the hell they are, eventually run into an old woman who just happens to be skilled in chopping small defenseless animals to pieces. So this one's actually already kind of disturbing on its own.



But Some Experts Say...
The farmer's wife in the poem is an allusion to the 16th Century Queen "Bloody" Mary I, and her enthusiasm for everything involving torture, death, and basically finding new ways to go down in textbooks as history's biggest bitch. The three mice supposedly represent three noblemen who got together and said, "Gee guys, maybe this Mary lady isn't all there." and were consequently prosecuted for conspiring against the queen.



Not afraid to cut a mother****er.

If you're cringing at the thought of what the cutting off of their three "tails" symbolizes, don't worry. She didn't cut off their dongs. No, she proved she had some form of human empathy, and simply burning those suckers at the stake instead.

#4.
Georgie Porgie




Georgie Porgie pudding and pie

Kissed the girls and made them cry
When the boys came out to play
Georgie Porgie ran away

We Thought it Meant...
Some playground creep who seemed to lose his balls at the sight of young men.

But Some Experts Say...
The whole thing refers to a torrid gay sex scandal involving King Charles I.
Georgie Porgie is thought to be a caricature of George Villiers, the 1st Duke of Buckingham and hardcore pretty boy. He was rumored to be a lover to Anne of Austria, the Queen Consort of France who was notorious for just about everything except for being pretty. Or really looking like a woman at all.



Possibly a dude.

So after having a fling with the, er, somewhat masculine Anne, it was a pretty smooth transition for Villiers to switch teams. Not one to do anything half way, the man Villiers chose to woo just happened to be King Charles I. Through the king, Villiers was able to become very powerful and influential, and was even knighted as a--and we're not making this up--Gentleman of the Bedchamber, a title Georgie's parents were surely proud of.




Eventually, Parliament got sick of the bastard and cut off the relationship. As a man of love, Villiers fought for his darling Charles valiantly by pretty much screaming, "Well...okay!" Thus the reference "When the boys came out to play, Georgie Porgie ran away."
As for what exact innuendo "Pudding and pie" represents, we'll let you use your imagination.

#3.
Goosey Goosey Gander




Goosey Goosey Gander, whither shall I wander?

Upstairs and downstairs and in my Lady's chamber.
There I met an old man who wouldn't say his prayers,
So I took him by his left leg and threw him down the stairs.

We Thought it Meant...The town hobo breaking in to various women's rooms and throwing their partners down stairs for being religiously inconsistent.

But Some Experts Say...
Back in 16th century Europe, most people were busy either fighting off plagues or killing off Catholics. Priests especially were in high demand as there was a reward for the Protestant who was able to find and execute one.
The method of execution was often tying him by the legs and throwing him down a flight of stairs (thus the last line in the rhyme). Unless he would begin to say his prayers in English rather than Latin, he would bounce down the steps faster than your childhood Slinky. If he did give in, he was spared by--oh wait, no. They threw him down the stairs regardless.
So that's all well and good, but what the hell does the phrase "Goosey Goosey Gander" have to do with anything?
Well, it's thought that "Goosey" is referencing an old slang term "goose" which was a nice but roundabout way of saying "voluptuous lady of the night" which in turn is a euphemism for "goddamn dirty hooker." In fact, the term "goose bumps" was originally slang for the red bumps caused by venereal diseases.
The more you know, kids!



#2 Pop Goes the Weasel


All around the mulberry bush
The monkey chased the weasel;
The monkey thought 'twas all in good sport
Pop! goes the weasel.
A penny for a spool of thread,
A penny for a needle-
That's the way the money goes,
Pop! goes the weasel.

We Thought it Meant...
Spontaneous combustion in the animal kingdom, along with an assertion that all monkeys are douchebags.

But Some Experts Say...
Pop goes the Weasel is a merry tune centered on an all too familiar children's theme: the cycle of poverty in society.
A good chunk of the poem is made up of plays on words that are themselves Cockney slang terms from the old days. So for instance, "Pop" is a slang term meaning to pawn something (that is, sell it at a pawn shop) while "weasel" translates to "coat". Does that help? No?
Well, the deal was that no matter how piss poor a London man was back in the day, he was expected to own a suit in order to dress nicely on Sunday. The trick to being able to do this was to pawn your suit ("Pop goes the weasel") on Monday and then purchase it back before Sunday.


One of the lesser-known, but more traditional verses states:

Up and down the City road,

In and out the Eagle,
That's the way the money goes,
Pop! goes the weasel.

The Eagle refers to The Eagle Tavern in northern London, reminding young ones about excessive poverty due to heavy drinking and depression--a lesson that every child should know by age 5.

#1.
Mary, Mary Quite Contrary


Mary Mary quite contrary,
How does your garden grow?
With silver bells and cockleshells
And pretty maids all in a row.

We Thought it Meant...
A cute old woman with an interest in horticulture. Oh, and it has the word "cockleshell." We like that.

A dick bouquet of cockleshells. Weiner.

But Some Experts Say...
Queen "Bloody" Mary was popular enough to frequent a number of nursery rhymes, which is pretty impressive all these centuries later. How many nursery rhymes do you appear in? Yeah, that's what we thought. You need to start doing something with your life.
Anyway, in this delightful tune, Mary is addressed first-hand about all of the poor saps she's sent to the graveyard (her garden). The silver bells refer to instruments of torture that crushed the thumb with the tightening of a screw, and cockleshells (heh) were torture devices that were attached to the genitals. Come on, don't act surprised. They're called cockleshells for God's sake.
The maids in the final line allude to the newly invented guillotine, which was nicknamed The Maiden.
They called it "The Maiden" because the first moniker, "Captain Choppy," never caught on.

SOURCE



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Remember compliments you received, forget the insults. If you succeed in doing this, tell me how..~ Baz Lurhman.
Letting it get to you - You know what that's called? Being alive. Best thing there is. Being alive right now that's all that counts. ~ Doctor Who "The Doctors Wife"
06.November.2011



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Old 03-06-2009, 12:12 AM   #2
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there is a bar in York that claims to be the origin of Georgie Porgie... I shall have to correct them when I'm down there next weeek lol

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Old 03-06-2009, 12:15 AM   #3
Feel_Good_inc.
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that nursery rhyme is older than America itself, let alone any bar in New York.



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Remember compliments you received, forget the insults. If you succeed in doing this, tell me how..~ Baz Lurhman.
Letting it get to you - You know what that's called? Being alive. Best thing there is. Being alive right now that's all that counts. ~ Doctor Who "The Doctors Wife"
06.November.2011



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Old 03-06-2009, 12:16 AM   #4
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york not new york.


there is a bar with some ghost story and they clame that the ghost is the guy that was based on

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Old 03-06-2009, 12:17 AM   #5
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i think they mean York in the UK, not NEW York in America.





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Old 03-06-2009, 12:17 AM   #6
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where did you get new york from? She said York :-P





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Old 03-06-2009, 12:23 AM   #7
Feel_Good_inc.
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I do not read. I skim.
made sense to me. no offence to anyone but Americans do try and claim credit for everything.



Don't be fooled by my smooth skin. The deepest scars are the ones unseen.
Remember compliments you received, forget the insults. If you succeed in doing this, tell me how..~ Baz Lurhman.
Letting it get to you - You know what that's called? Being alive. Best thing there is. Being alive right now that's all that counts. ~ Doctor Who "The Doctors Wife"
06.November.2011



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Old 03-06-2009, 12:29 AM   #8
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I never did like nursery rhymes much...now I know why!



All the world's a stage,
and all men and women merely players.

Once you choose hope, anything's possible.





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Old 03-06-2009, 12:48 AM   #9
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I've heard the 3 blind mice one before.

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Old 03-06-2009, 02:11 AM   #10
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Does anyone know the origin of Ba Ba Black Sheep? I know it's not considered very PC these days but why? I know a black headteacher who wouldn't allow it on the walls in her school. But, you do get black sheep, don't you? And white ones? Sorry if this offends anybody I don't mean to but it confusses me and I would like to know why. Can anybody help me please? All the infants I've taught over the years have loved it.

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Old 03-06-2009, 02:32 AM   #11
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LMAO.

I wonder how many people'll be able to think the same way about those rhymes now. My guess is not many :P




Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness, Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness, Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness, Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness,Ness.
I'm...h...a...p...p...y...


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Old 03-06-2009, 02:32 AM   #12
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i don't know those lyrics to pop goes the weasel. i know
half a pound of twopenny rice,
half a pound of treacle,
mix it up and make it nice,
pop goes the weasel!

either relating to some kind of rice pudding with treacle, or the less common way of making treacle tarts using rice instead of breadcrumbs.

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Old 03-06-2009, 03:12 AM   #13
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wow.
thats funny yet disturbing.



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You just gotta find the ones worth suffering for.*~


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Old 03-06-2009, 03:59 AM   #14
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The version of "Pop Goes the Weasel" that I know is:

All around the mulberry bush
The monkey chased the weasel
The monkey thought it was all in fun
Pop! Goes the weasel

A penny for a spool of thread
A penny for a needle
That's the way the money goes
Pop! Goes the weasel


When I was little, my mom told me it was to do with weaving. She a "weasel" was something to do with a loom (I don't remember if it's actually part of it or not), and that it would "pop" when it got to the end of a row, at which point you have to turn it or something (I think it's a bit when you get to the end of a line on a typewriter). She also said that the timing was such that if you were weaving in time with the song (pressing the petals or moving the slidey thing or whatever it is you do in weaving so it matched up with the beats in the song) then somehow or other you'd get to the end of a row on "pop." She also said it originated when a lot of weaving was done by young girls, or at least they'd have to learn to weave or stuff, and it was a way to keep their place and such (kind of like how a jumprope song helps you keep time to turn the rope at a stead pace, but for weaving instead).



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Old 03-06-2009, 04:18 AM   #15
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Oooh I learned

All around the mulberry bush
The monkey chased the weasel
The preacher kissed the cobbler's wife
Pop! Goes the weasel

A penny for a spool of thread
Another for a needle
That's the way the money goes
Pop! Goes the weasel.



I knew Emily's version too.

I really haven't given much thought to nursery rhymes, but a lot of them are quite disturbing.



Thank you for all of your help and support. I will no longer be coming to RYL. Semi-explanation will be inside my profile.

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Old 03-06-2009, 05:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Feel_Good View Post
no offence to anyone but Americans do try and claim credit for everything.
None taken, as the point is rather true =/ I'd be the first to tell you my country gets it a little off sometimes BUT that's another day, another thread.


I too learned Pop goes the weasel had to do with weaving, but the rest are pretty interesting.

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Old 03-06-2009, 06:38 AM   #17
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There's also the Ring Around the Rosy (or Ring a Ring o' Roses for the UK people) being about bubonic plague, which as I recall is considered to be just a myth even though it does fit the lyrics pretty well (the US version anyway... which, incidentally, happens to match the first printing of the song). The US lyrics are:

Ring around the rosy
A pocket full of posies.
Ashes, ashes
We all fall down!


"Rosy" would be a reference to the color of the rash that characterizes the early stages of bubonic plague, and the rest of the line could be either a description of the rash (the pustule things have reddish rings around them, and I think the rash also shows up in rings), or it could be about staying away from people who have it. The "pocket full of posies" would be the pocket in those creepy looking beak masks which was filled with posies to protect against the disease, which at the time was believed to be caused by foul-smelling air. "Ashes, ashes" is either a reference to "ashes to ashes" or to cremation. And the last line is obvious.

Given how well it fits, it's actually kind of disappointing that it's probably not actually where it came from...



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Old 03-06-2009, 06:43 AM   #18
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You'll find that there will be different "origins" to each rhyme from the ones that ads has put in this list *nods*. That's cause they're a kazillion years old and no one knows exactly where they came from lol

nice list ads!



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Old 03-06-2009, 06:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Ba ba black sheep:
  • A description of the medieval 'Great' or 'Old Custom' wool tax of 1275, which survived until the fifteenth century.[1] Contrary to some commentaries, this tax did not involve the collection of one third to the king, and one third to the church, but a less punitive sum of 6s 8d to the Crown per sack, about 5 per cent of the value.[2] This theory also depends on the rhyme surviving unrecorded and even unmentioned in extant texts for hundreds of years.
  • A connection to the slave trade. This explanation was advanced during debates over political correctness and the use and reform of nursery rhymes in the 1980s, but scholars agree that it has no basis in fact.[3]



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Old 03-06-2009, 06:49 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Gofeen View Post
Does anyone know the origin of Ba Ba Black Sheep? I know it's not considered very PC these days but why? I know a black headteacher who wouldn't allow it on the walls in her school. But, you do get black sheep, don't you? And white ones? Sorry if this offends anybody I don't mean to but it confusses me and I would like to know why. Can anybody help me please? All the infants I've taught over the years have loved it.
You do get black sheepies

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