Is this rude?

[Steel Maiden]

I would like your opinion on this as I have difficulty with understanding social interactions and social rules.

(I live in supported housing and E and L are the other people living here)

Last night, E, the carer and I were talking in the living room. Then L came back home and entered the living room extremely distressed and in tears. E looked at her once and then turned back to the carer and continued talking as if L wasn't there. L sat down and cried even more. But E was still taking to the carer. I said to E "L is crying, don't you realise?" E ignored me and carried on talking about herself to the carer. I said to L "what's wrong?" and I was about to say "can I help in any way?" but E talked over me. Then I got angry at E and said "look, L is crying, you shouldn't act as if she is not there and you should show interest and care!" E actually stopped talking at that point, but while the carer and I were talking to L and asking her what's wrong, E just fiddled about with her phone for about a minute, and then got up and said "I'm going to make dinner, then I have to go to church as tonight is a special service blah blah *insert more things about herself*", and left the room. L started to talk to us and it turned out that her brother is a heroin addict and is suffering severely. Ten minutes later, E stood in the doorway and said "I'm going to church now, bye" and walked out.

Now I am not expert on social protocols but I think E was rude and selfish. I myself do not have many feelings, so even when I see someone crying, I don't feel emotion, BUT I do know, from being taught by my friend at school (who taught me a lot of social protocols and I learned them through practise and role play), that when someone is crying, you're supposed to show care and interest in what their problem is, and that you're supposed to try and help them, and offer kind words.

E is selfish, in my opinion. For example, she'll come home and say "Hi Olympia, how are you?" and I'll start saying "I'm ok, I've just been to see my social worker and..." and then E will butt in and start a long monologue about her life and what she's been doing and what music she likes etc. I always try to stop her and do the social protocol of "give and take" in conversation, but it always ends up as me listening to her talking about herself for several minutes.

I am not sure how to react or what to do regarding E. She keeps trying to make physical contact with me, despite the fact that I told her I cannot cope with physical contact. She also spends hours blasting the TV with music and singing very loudly, despite me an the neighbours complaining about it repeatedly.

Advice?

[Bleeding Angel]

I don't know about rude, I mean some people feel akward when people cry infront of them and don't know what to do so may ignore it as they can't cope with it.

[Kame]

I think some people just have a tendency to talk about themself because that's just what they know to do and struggle to make conversation otherwise. I think what you did was right in that kind of situation and yes, I think E could have been more helpful, but maybe she thought if you and the carer were there, that L would be okay.
Could you maybe get the carer to talk about her behaviour, especially the behaviours that are upsetting you, e.g. the physical contact and the loud music?

[beautiful_seclusion]

I would find the continuing to talk about herself when the other person was obviously upset rude. I could see being uncomfortable and just remaining silent or leaving the room, as I know I really am not good with people when they are upset. But that would bother me, that she was seemingly trying to pull attention to herself by talking over the person crying. Perhaps she doesn't know how to put her needs in balance with other's needs. The interrupting you to talk about herself would also annoy me. I know that I personally find it hard to balance when to and not to talk about myself, simply as I'm not good with keeping conversation smooth, but interrupting, especially when she asked you a question, does seem rude to me. But like people said, it's hard to know what her problems are and judging will probably only make you upset and not change the situation. Have you ever asked her why she does this and explain the things she does upsets you? Also the physical contact thing is to me totally unacceptable since you have told her to stop; you have a right to not be touched if you ask not to. Perhaps if talking to her doesn't work, you could talk to the carer about it?

[Steel Maiden]

Thank you for the advice everyone.

I have built my mental list of social protocols over many years and I find your replies helpful in me fine-tuning them.

I will have a talk with the carer as E is extremely forgetful and won't retain requests like "don't touch me" or "that was impolite".

I am sorry if I overreacted, I think I understand the situation better now.

[Pi.R^2]

I personally think it was very rude of E, but I can see what others are saying that there's probably a reason she acts like that. Maybe she never made the effort to learn about social protocol like you did

I hope the carer is helpful in finding away to help E remember that you don't appreciate physical contact.

Once again, I'd just like to say how wonderful it is that you make such an effort to learn about social protocol! I daresay you're probably better at social interaction than most people by now!

[Steel Maiden]

Thanks :)

I told the carer that I don't like her making physical contact with me and he had a talk with her. I hope she remembers what he said as she can forget things very easily.

Thank you for the compliment. I have learned a fair bit on social interaction, although it takes a lot of effort to go through my protocols in my head when I'm socialising, so even though I'm knowledgeable on it, I still struggle to "keep up the pace" in real life.

Last night E told me to shut up and shoved her hand in front of my face. I did sort of butt in into her conversation with the carer, but what I wanted to say was relevant and important. Surely she could have said "wait a moment Olympia" and without the gesticulation.

Sorry I keep asking questions, I just don't know how to react with E. I'm worried she doesn't like me because I have absolutely no religious beliefs (she is a very devout Christian). I don't mind other people believing, so I don't know why she gets bothered about people who don't believe.

[ASkatersDream...]

Another side of it.

Do you think L always annoys E with her crying and behaviours? i know when i get annoyed with someone i try and blank them out.

an example a girl i skate with just doesnt know when to be quiet amd.i end up trying to get away from her/just reply in meaningless manner.

people do get uncomfortable when people cry but if L does it all the time and E gets fed up with it maybe thats her reaction to it. Not saying its right but hey.

[Steel Maiden]

Thanks.

This was the first time that L has ever burst into tears in front of us. But I can understand how if she did it a lot, it could get annoying.

She doesn't have autism/Asperger's at all, in fact she is quite the opposite.

I think that if she is horrible again, I will confront her and ask her why. I understand that presumptions are not good and are often not correct.

I will also privately ask the carer too in case he knows why E does this.

[TomiJoseph]

I don't have much to add to what everyone's already said, but you seem to be handling the situation wonderfully and I hope everything works out.

[Steel Maiden]

^ thanks :)

E is still being rude and I think she has a memory problem too, so repeatedly telling her not to do things isn't working. I want to make her a list of what I keep saying, but she might not like it.

[Turtleface]

E sounds apathetic and even possibly sociopathic. Actually no, from what I know about E when you have mentioned her in other cases she does sound sociopathic.

As a carer E has an obligation, a duty and has been trained to be able to handle these things. There really isn't an excuse for her behavior.

[Steel Maiden]

Thanks Turtleface. I will talk to the carer about it if she continues.

The carers went on holiday for a week (they should be back tomorrow) and the replacement carer didn't visit at all! I am going to complain about this so-called replacement "carer" to the real carers when they come back.

[random.swirls]

I think it depends on the conversation E and the carer were having if it was a personal one about mental health stuff then hum.

I think I would be more annoyed with the carer though because that is what there job is and they should be managing things.

[Steel Maiden]

^ true, the carer was being rather useless.