You would never, i assume, say 'that's so black' so why is it any different?
QFT!!!!
I'm not offended easily, but I do find 'retard' and 'spesh' or 'spastic' offensive, and even 'gay' irritates me because whilst I'm not gay I still see it as offensive language to anyone who is.
People frequently say RYL is not supposed to be real life, it's supposed to a safe place, whilst I tend to disagree I think here it is relevant: so many people have been made to feel like **** by receiving abuse for being 'gay' or 'speshial', why would we allow it on RYL when it is unpleasant and down right unsafe for people who have been affected by descrimination in these areas?
Diachronic change, as people have referred to, that language has changed since the rules in 2006 or whenever, is weak in that there is also sociological change of language which is relevant and specific to different cultures. In this case language is relevent more to a cultural and sociological group, - RYL'ers - rather than the big wide world. If RYL is supposed to be safe and different, following this cultural decision, I would have thought word choices should also be culturally specific.
Random point: my friend has a habit of saying 'thats gay!' - she doesnt mean it offensively and she is a lovely person, its just a habit she has like when i said i liked Gavin and Stacey she said ' thats so gay!' - it makes no sense- she doesnt mean 'thats homosexual' nor does she mean that being gay is stupid- its just an expression that is extracted fromt the original meaning of the word. OKAY SO POINT- durin our training for work we were working with 8 guys- 7 of them gay. And during training she inevitabley yells out 'ohmg your so gay' or 'thats so gaaay!' several times before just about dying of embarassment. So we asks the guys- does this offend you?
They all says 'no we know she doesnt mean it offensive to gay people-we say it too!'
The point of that i guess is perception of the word. I'm not saying that people cant take it offensively- everyones different- just certain words are used socially and therefore people pick them up and use them in the context they've heard rather than use them to offend others.
Just to add tho= on RYL i dont see the need. I think its easy to say -like she does- but typing it and hitting post is different. Reali then you could think about it and change it- so I see your point on using it here.
ANd retard just isnt needed- i dont like the word- i dont take offense anymore like i used to because i dont think people think through what comes out when they say it if you get me?
I joke around a lot both on RYL and in real life but I never have any intentions of hurting or offending anyone. In my circles of friends, the words 'spesh' and 'special' are used frequently (See The Special Thread) but it is used as a term of affection.
There have recently been a few threads where members have debated whether something was offensive or not... They were in general chat but I cannot remember exactly what was said... However, I think that perhaps if you find something offensive, you should PM the member in question and ask for an explanation.
Case in question: Danz (Narcicissm) is known to the comunity as 'Spack' or 'Spacker' for a variety of reasons. I don't think that she has ever taken this as a term of offense, and although I am not aware of its origin I believe that it is a label that she has adopted herself... To others this may be offenisve perhaps, but as long as the person it is directed against does not take offense I suppose things are just down to misunderstandings - the bane of modern communication.
There's certain words that REALLY get on my nerves.
So long as it is meant in a non offensive way I don't mind gay.
Retard I don't like and don't see the need for it to be used as for other things that are replecting disabilities. Mong is one where it's derivatives are from people with Downs' Syndrome. Spaz/ Spacker is one that REALLY gets to me. The come from the word Spastic which is a form of Cerebral Palsy and used to be a medical term for the whole syndrome, now just one sort of it. But it has been taken as being a derogatory word and a LOT of people tale offense from it. I kind of think that if words aren't supposed to be used that are racially offensive then words which have roots in learning difficulties/ disabilities also shouldn't be allowed as they can be very offensive at times to some people when there use is just thrown around.
I just think people need to think sometimes. I'm guilty of the whole "that's gay" one, and I annoy myself for it. They roll off the tongue but they can be offensive and we could try to invent our own words instead :) that actually mean what we mean, instead of stealing other words that have other meanings or just run the risk of causing offence.
didnt gay originaly mean happy and colourful?!
and it got used for the gays because they were happy and colourful.. therefore... calling something gay is good.
my bus is late.. thats so gay = putting a positive spin on things!
didnt gay originaly mean happy and colourful?!
and it got used for the gays because they were happy and colourful.. therefore... calling something gay is good.
my bus is late.. thats so gay = putting a positive spin on things!
bwah ha ha ha!
i've never seen anyone actually use gay that way though it would be nice if the world was like that.
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to be honest
if you aren't offended by a word then fantastic BUT that doesnt mean other people wont be and RYL *does* have rules on this sort of thing and for good reason, to protect people.
i find spacker incredibly offensive and i really dont care if the person in question doesnt because its a loaded term, a word with a history.
surely people can see that the intention of the word between friends wont stop it being offensive to other people.
as others have said RYL is supposed to be a safe place, thats why language is mentioned specifically in the guide. that fact alone surely renders most of this discussion pointless. the rules are there so they need to be enforced
Seriously, if we start trying to make people stop using every word that people find offensive, we'd very quickly run out of words.
i dont think we'd run out of words at all. Apparently there are around 1 million words in the modern english language. If you cant find another word to express your distaste at something then, quite frankly, keep quiet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusCait
*shakes head* How about we ban those words in real life as well...
if you read my previous posts you'll see that i've already addressed this. RYL is not real life its supposed to be a safe place. thats why we have trigger warnings and that's why there is a section in the guide about offensive language in general.
I think this is mainly an issue of awareness, most of us would be horrified if we really offended another RYLer with our language so if i'm pointing out, and others in this thread have backed me up, that a lot of us do find these words offensive, why use them unless you want to upset people?
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I'm pretty much done with this thread now. I made my point, over and over actually, and repeating myself isn't going to help.
there *are* rules in the guide about this so people need to be more aware of them and they need to be enforced to keep RYL a safe and inclusive community for all of us.
It never took long for the new term to become used as an insult, "special" being one of the more recent. Banning these words from RYL (as opposed to devising new words for the older meaning) would have a similar effect, new words would be used as mild insults, and some of those would offend someone somewhere.
Ending discrimination and offence involves changing how people think and act, not random insults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrigan
Also, spazz does not come from the old medical term spastic (now cerebral palsy I think?), it comes from the same place that spastic comes from. The term came from the spasms that characterise the disorder. People who are spazzing tend to flap their hands and behave as if in a spasm. Just because the root is the same does not mean that they are linked. When I hear or say "spazz" I am thinking about the body of the person who is spazzing, and not any disability.
Somewhat similarly, retard just means behind, so if your friend is being a bit slow, calling them a retard is no less accurate than calling them slow, and as such, interpreting it as offensive is somewhat strange.
are the best points made in the thread so far.
(y)
Words and their meanings change and evolve; a prime example of this is the word 'gay' in the first place, which was adopted by homosexuals to suit their meaning.
I understand why some people may find it offensive, but I don't think that the words inherently are or aren't, and if you do look at their origins, there is even less reason as to why people may find them offensive.
And, as I've said before, the only power that a word has to hurt or offend you is the power that you give it, and banning words or making words 'off-limits' just makes them considerably more powerful than they needed to be, or ever were before.
I understand why some people may find it offensive, but I don't think that the words inherently are or aren't, and if you do look at their origins, there is even less reason as to why people may find them offensive.
And, as I've said before, the only power that a word has to hurt or offend you is the power that you give it, and banning words or making words 'off-limits' just makes them considerably more powerful than they needed to be, or ever were before.
This.
ANY word can be used for bullying depending on how you use it, the fact of the matter is that no malice is intended when anyone uses those words. I spent all my school years being called fat, I don't think that word should be banned. Loads of people are bullied by different words, with different meanings, we can't ban them all. RYL may well be a safe place, but there's safe and there's restrictive. The tighter people pull on this place to change lots of little things that the minority find problematic, the faster this place is going to completely skew people's perception on the world.
No word is 'bad', it's how the word is used. Most people around here find the word bugger to be a soft, harmless word to use when you're frustrated, or when you come up against a wall. It can be anal sex - which makes it slightly ridiculous in that context, but I doubt anyone around here would read and think 'well, what about anal sex?', they'd read it and understand the frustration behind it. In 10 years time, gay probably won't mean homosexual any more. Apparently sick doesn't mean sick any more - it means 'cool' or 'awesome'.
I think there are other problems that need addressing before starting to pick on individual words.
I was bullied frequently for the way that I speak and look, with a vairety of terms being used to mock and degrade me. However, I see that when people use these words in a different context then they are not meant to be offensive.
For example, if a member on here called me 'special' I would see it as a term of endearment, while if it was a filthy scummy chav shouting it in my face, of course the meaning would be different
Everything in life is about intention. People say that it is the thought that matters about positive guestures; the same applies for seemingly negative ones. No one knows what may or may not offend someone. I am very angry about the PC climate of Britain when it coems to silly things, but I understand that this is a differnet circumstance. However, a blanket ban on a certain word of phrase is detrimental. Instead, if you feel offended by something, politly take it up with another member. I nthe past I have been asked to edit my post based on soemthing someone found offensive... i'll happily do so if I know that it has offended or triggered you inadvertantly.
i'm not insulted by gay and if its meant in a fun way i don't mind. Yeah our college lot unfortinately say "the retard lot" are coming in next or the "retard class" which i don't like AS it is meant to be nasty and its only slipped out once with me when i was fustrated and angry. I will not say the word if it is meant to actually bully.
But gay i don't think is offensive i'll normally say it all the time i may actually have a word wih this lad tony about it tonight if hes hanging around with his bf.
I don't think personally theres anything that you can do about it around ryl. As the saying goes though don't like the thread don't read. I think if the words are meant to bully i think it should be banned but if normal conversation where its just meant to classify something (an object!) as stupid fine its not meant to bully any one and personally todays english is just forever changing like the word Wicked it now means awsome but in years ago it would mean bad. So yeah english is changing over time and we can't stop it. So shouldn't really be banned around ryl
I have special needs and the only thing that does insult me is retard, spesh is meh, it's okay, I don't mind being called spesh / special, because I am. ^_^
Gay... well, it's becoming a frequent word in society, and not much anyone can do about the use of it.
