Iran presidential elections/riots

Dreaming. · 19-06-2009, 09:29 PM

I'm quite surprised that nothing has been said about this yet.

This is the BBC news timeline.

Basically, some hundreds of thousands of protesters have, well, protested about the election result:

Quote:

The interior ministry announces that Mr Ahmadinejad has won with 63% of the vote, against 34% for Mr Mousavi.
Turnout is said to have been a record 85%.

Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, describes the outcome as a real celebration and urges the opposition to accept the result.
 Mr Ahmadinejad's supporters take to the streets waving flags and sounding car horns.

But Mr Mousavi's supporters clash with police in Tehran in the worst disorder since student protests in 1999.
All three opposition candidates call for the election to be annulled and re-run.
The vote was "free and healthy", says Mr Ahmadinejad in a live address to the nation.

There's more in The Times & The Indie. And this is pretty cool, too. There was also an awesome picture in Tuesday's Times, but I can't find it now :|

[Purple_Rain] · 19-06-2009, 11:07 PM

I've been following this on the news. I dont know what to think apart from the fact the killings were horrible.

blondiebear · 20-06-2009, 12:02 AM

When I see footage on the news I wonder are these protests or riots?

Isoverity · 20-06-2009, 03:04 AM

I listen to "experts" talk about Iran and the situation there but I still draw blanks on some things.

The Iranian president is not the top ruler in Iran - the Supreme Leader is - and he is a religious leader as much as ( or more) a political one. The Supreme Leader is picked by an Assembly of Experts made up of 86 Islamic scholars (Mujtahids).

Not just anyone can run for prezzer in Iran. Candidates are screened by a "Guardian Council" of 12 Islamic Scholars - and six of them are appointed by the Supreme Leader. The other six are picked by the Majlis of Iran (Iranian Parliament. All All Majlis candidates are approved by the same Guardian Council that picks the Supreme Leader - who again picks half the Guardian Council.

So the political system is basically a closed system with many of the same theocrats cross-appointing each other. It's as if the US Congress and UK Parliament chose their leaders and then they in turn appontied members of those bodies.

I do not doubt that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is not popular with a lot of Iranians. Because of an 8 year war between Iran and Iraq in the 80's Iran's population is very young - 70 percent are under thirty years old. They don't like being under a strict clerical theocracy. Every year 1.2 million people graduate from the country's universities but only about a third are able to find jobs. America is very popular with Iranian people despite conflict with leaders (Iranians are not Arabs but Persians).

That said, the other guy in election, Mir Hossein Mousavi, was also screened by Iranian authorities so it's not like he was going to be hugely different from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad although he is something of a "reformer" and not as apocalyptic as Ahmadinejad who expects to see the "Mahdi" (prophesied redeemer of Islam) come during apocalyptic upheavals.

It does look like the election outcome was predetermined despite 2 approved candidates. Even people even inside the government said they were told Ahmadinejad would be the winner and by how much. The fact so many hand ballots were supposedly counted so quickly was a tip-off to what people expected to happen.

I think a lot of people did want Mousavi and are angry about getting ripped off. I also think the whole clerical governement is not that popular either. Ahmadinejad expanded the reach of the Shari'a since his election in 2005. Mousavi appears at election rallies together with his wife and promises equality for women.

It's not likely Mousavi would want to curtail nuclear program since he started it years past but I don't think he's one of the guys that wants to nuke Israel so the Mahdi shows up.

I wish our gov was doing/saying more to support the protesters because I know they have looked for it.
It looks like tomorrow there might be a showdown between protestors and gov. There might be a lot of violence.

Interesting photos on this link. There are some graphic ones but they are hidden until a viewer clicks other links

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200..._election.html

Isoverity · 20-06-2009, 05:58 AM

Okay - I spent a few hours actually visiting sites with Iranians on it. (Facebook, YouTube, deviantART etc are full of Iranians).From their videos that they posted Mousavi is very different from Ahmadinejad.

My take now is that the government knew they were unpopular and ran a candidate ( Mousavi) who reflected the opposition in ways they normally would not have allowed - with the idea they would vote him down in order to quelch oppossition fires. The problem was it backfired.

If you look at FaceBook you can see a lot of people have the "Where's My Vote?" avatar (tellingly most are in English):

Isoverity · 20-06-2009, 06:08 AM

You can get a grasp of what Mousavi's campign was like from this video:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Mir-Ho...5472392&ref=mf

A really touching video is from a young girl who starts to cry as she films Mousavi supporters shouting "Allahu akbar!" from rooftops the night before people expected to perhaps die at protests

http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.ph...u=Bj8bF&ref=mf

<link href="http://www.latimes.com/stylesheets/entnews.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet"> <style type="text/css">  </style>
DISPATCH FROM TEHRAN
Iran rooftop chorus swells in the night

[COLOR=#333333 ! important]Calls of 'God is great!' from losing opposition presidential candidate Mir-Hossein Mousavi's backers ricochet around a city block despite warnings against further protest.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,1259143.story
[/color]

Dreamofunity · 20-06-2009, 06:40 AM

There most likely wasn't any voter fraud, the guy won 2:1. That said, nothing like a good protest.

The shootings and 'police' are a little much though.

20-06-2009, 10:20 AM

^ You don't know that. The election could have been rigged and many are claiming their votes were lost.
I'm all for the people of Iran, they are fighting for what they believe in and I have respect for that.

tigris · 20-06-2009, 01:49 PM

There was some guy on the BBC news yesterday reporting from Iran. He couldn't confim it, but he said he suspected that there had been fraud becuase in 70 regions or something the counted number of votes was far more than the number of people actually living in those areas. Some had a mark up of over 40%. So on that basis he thought it was rigged.

[Purple_Rain] · 20-06-2009, 01:57 PM

Isoverity - thank you for expalining all that, I think I udnerstand it much better now.

Also, I htink your point

Quote:

My take now is that the government knew they were unpopular and ran a candidate ( Mousavi) who reflected the opposition in ways they normally would not have allowed - with the idea they would vote him down in order to quelch oppossition fires. The problem was it backfired.

is a very interesting one, and is very plausable.

Isoverity · 20-06-2009, 04:35 PM

Thanks Purple.

As the sun goes down there has been an escalation in beatings and shootings (protesters were told they could be shot at today). Here are some recent Twitter bits:

# As Sky Turns Dark Beatings By Basij Uniformed & Ununiformed Have Escalated No Matter Men Women & Children #IranElection Tehran Iran #GR8816 minutes ago from web

#Tactic By Basij Breaking Up Large Groups By Gun Fire As Other Basij Waiting Side Streets #IranElection Tehran Iran #GR88 Stay Large Groups25 minutes ago from web

#Report: (Confirmed) Stay in Large Groups. Basij Uniformed & Ununiformed Beating All Women & Children #IranElection Tehran Iran #GR88about 1 hour ago from web

#Today 4PM Enghelab Square #IranElection Tehran Iran #GR88 Stay In Large Groups At All Time

http://twitter.com/ThinkIran

The video I posted of a girl talking while protesters called out in the night has a new version (excellent - haunting) with English subtitles:

"Friday Night In Iran"

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.co...t-in-iran.html

Isoverity · 20-06-2009, 07:21 PM

Mousavi has said he is prepared for martydom, and that if he is arrested the nation is to go on strike.

Protests have been bigger than reported and there was a lot of violence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5MZ-pGGCco&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fraymankojast%2Eblogspot%2 Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

Women and children were shot (one video on Mousavi's Facebook shows a women shot and killed in the street. A doctor tried to help her but could not).

http://www.facebook.com/video/video....ef=mf#/mousavi

The Guardian reports the computer IT specialist who some say leaked that the election results were fake has turned up dead in a car "accident".

The man who leaked the real election results from the Interior Ministry - the ones showing Ahmadinejad coming third - was killed in a suspicious car accident, according to unconfirmed reports, writes Saeed Kamali Dehghan in Tehran.

Mohammad Asgari, who was responsible for the security of the IT network in Iran's interior ministry, was killed yesterday in Tehran.

Asgari had reportedly leaked results that showed the elections were rigged by government use of new software to alter the votes from the provinces.

Asgari was said to have leaked information that showed Mousavi had won almost 19 million votes, and should therefore be president.

http://digg.com/world_news/Iran_Elec...eblower_Killed

Dreaming. · 20-06-2009, 07:53 PM

Thanks Jack - this:

Quote:

The Guardian reports the computer IT specialist who some say leaked that the election results were fake has turned up dead in a car "accident".

The man who leaked the real election results from the Interior Ministry - the ones showing Ahmadinejad coming third - was killed in a suspicious car accident, according to unconfirmed reports, writes Saeed Kamali Dehghan in Tehran.

I thought I'd heard somewhere, but couldn't find anything about it. s'good to know I hadn't gone mad!

And the stuff you've posted is really interesting, thank you.

Isoverity · 20-06-2009, 09:06 PM

Reliable Iranian blog says Fatemiyeh Hospital in Tehran has 30-40 dead as of 11pm. So there are probably a lot more. I saw second video of man shot right in front of cameras.

People cant go to the hospitals because they get arrested there - some have been dragged off operating tables and dumped outside. People are being told to take the injured to embassies and the embassies are reporting that is indeed taking place.

The crowds being shown in towns don't include many people who tried to enter towns but were stopped along roads outside towns.

People said boiling water was being dropped from helicopters but others said it was acid. In any case something that burns is being used.

There are still a lot of non-violent suppression techniques being used but things turn lethal more than they did the other day when 7 died. Protesters
today seem more intent on confronting police and militia - throwing rocks and firebombs.

People are chanting "Death to dictators!" and "Death to Khamenei" - the Supreme Leader. People resent that the government has been becoming more a military dictatorship over past 4 years.

Iranian bloggers asked anyone outside Iran who has a Twitter page to change their time zone to Tehran time to make it harder for Iranian authorities to locate vidieos and comments uploaded to sites.

Isoverity · 22-06-2009, 09:30 PM

Tomorrow will be a big day probably. The Revolutionary Guard has said they will crush further protest. Things have already been very violent but a lot of the police and army are sensitive to fact they are going against their own countrymen. Other more radical enforcers are more loyal to clerics than to Iran or Iranians - some are coming from other places like Lebanon.

The girl who was killed (Neda) that I mentioned above has indeed become a national symbol and "martyr". That's important in Iran since people now commemorate her death on the 3rd and 40th day after she was killed. This could mean big rallies. Such rallies happening cyclically were large influence in revolution of 1979.

Protesters can't keep going into the street and getting shot at so they try to plan a national strike. Clerics have said anyone going on strike will get fired (or worse). People can be seen trying to plan it on Facebook. Its getting harder for people to get online because the proxies are getting shut down more and more so people don't know what's going on.

My Fav pics I have seen are these:

[pretty on the inside] · 24-06-2009, 03:57 PM

I've been following this too. The Guardian is doing a live update thing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/...24/iran-crisis

These might also be of interest:

http://hopinewsfromiran.wordpress.com/
Updates from the HOPI (Hands off the people of Iran) website.

http://www.facebook.com/s.php?q=iranian+embassy+london&n=-1&k=400000000010&sf=r&init=q&sid=5d1732a5deb567db0 52ae26c5ee67e21#/group.php?gid=47522423983&ref=ts
A facebook group with a link to the blog of the Worker-Communist Party of Iran.

Dreamofunity · 25-06-2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [pretty on the inside]

A facebook group with a link to the blog of the Worker-Communist Party of Iran.

God help us if Iran goes from religious dictator to communist.

Isoverity · 25-06-2009, 05:38 PM

More Tweeters in Iran are missing - including one called "persiankiwi". They are mentioned in many news articles and their information generally turns out to be reliable. Persiankiwi's last tweets show a situation much more violent than seems to be conveyed in media articles. Recent tweets:

"we must go - dont know when we can get internet - they take 1 of us, they will torture and get names - now we must move fast"

"they pull away the dead into trucks - like factory - no human can do this - we beg Allah for save us "

"Lalezar Sq is same as Baharestan - unbelevable - ppls murdered everywhere"

"they catch ppl with mobile - so many killed today - so many injured - Allah Akbar - they take one of us"

"in Baharestan we saw militia with axe choping ppl like meat - blood everywhere - like butcher"

"phone line was cut and we lost internet - #Iranelection - getting more difficult to log into net"

"they were waiting for us - they all have guns and riot uniforms - it was like a mouse trap - ppl being shot like animals"

"so many ppl arrested - young & old - they take ppl away"

"thank you ppls 4 supporting Sea of Green - pls remember always our martyrs - Allah Akbar - Allah Akbar - Allah Akbar"

I saw one video on YouTube of students being shot at Tehran University. You can hear the bullets whizzing past the camera while students scramble to help the wounded.

Mousavi is under house arrest and is not allowed to communicate with supporters.

The family of Neda (the girl shot in street who has become national symbol) was forced to move out of their home.