More censoring, is the R&V even serving a purpose anymore?

[JaffaCake.]

But there's a very fine line between triggering and just being plain old uncalled for.

I get, that the R&V board is for obviously, ranting about what's bothering you and to get things off of your chest and it's good to get things out about stuff you wouldn't normally say to anyone but, there really does have to be a line between getting your feelings out, and being over the top. And if this is the way the mods are going to try and limit the amount of post reports from members because a post has multiple x's or *'s, then so be it. Or for someone to not right, "that was a lovely cut" or "that b/p session was fantastic". I've seen that quite a few times around that forum and I can understand why someone struggling with those issues would be upset / triggered. Now, me personally, am not easily triggered by something like that but I can see how it's glamourising it. How can any cut be 'lovely' or a b/p sesh 'fantastic'?

Edit: Jodie, I see where you're coming from but if there were no rules at all, where would we all be?

[[LittleMonster]]

In response to "how can a cut be lovely, or a b/p session fantastic", I think what they mean is that the behaviour was "fantastic" in the sense that they feel relieved, or better after doing so,, they're not saying the behaviour itself is an amazing thing to do, but moreso the person's feelings after engaging in the behaviour.

[Bellatrix]

LetMeSign^^ I'm all for rules. But they need to be made to that the community has an input too, or it's just a dictatorship, and that's not RYL's philosophy.

I'll stop talking like a politician now before I start telling lies to get votes.

[Cryptic.]

A cut can be lovely in the fact that it has relieved you, it has made you calmer, it has taken weight off your shoulders.
A b/p session can be fantastic in the same way, or it may calm the urges down which is pretty fantastic in my book.
Sometimes people are so deep in these things that it becomes all they do, all they think about, all they crave, and all they feel they need to survive.
When they get that "fix", that can feel almost euphoric for some people.
Just because someone says that a cut is lovely or feels so good, or a b/p session was fantastic or felt amazing, doesn't mean it's encouraging it for others.
They are saying how they felt about what just happened.
They are expressing themselves.
They are not saying that the behaviour in itself is a wonderful thing to go and do, I know I hate the fact that I feel unable to stop doing the things I do, but they are merely saying how they felt & what that behaviour has done for them inside, how it's made them feel, what they're thinking afterwards.
I don't think that's uncalled for, at all.

[Annaberry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TranquilChaos

I don't see how it could be triggering or glamorising, I've done posts similar, as has my Fiancee, as has many of my friends, and as has many, many, actually, the majority of members here have done so too.

& If it could be triggering for others, then they viewed it with the knowledge of it potentially being triggering. People need to take responsibility for that.

This. I've read posts in yours and Helen's rants before that have triggered me, but Jesus, I've not complained to you or any mods about it because it was my own decision. When I was in a bad place, I just didn't read them because I knew they would trigger me. I'm not blaming you or anyone else for this, because I choose what I do and don't read.

The R/V threads are not offering support to other people, or providing a guideline for how to recover. They are true, realistic feelings, and sometimes these are very harsh and I think you have to be prepared for that if you're going to read them.

----

Also, can I just ask, do these rules apply to journals, too?

[Cryptic.]

I don't think they do for private journals, not sure about public, I would assume so because usually the rules on the forums apply in public journals too.
x

[JaffaCake.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeaCulpa

LetMeSign^^ I'm all for rules. But they need to be made to that the community has an input too, or it's just a dictatorship, and that's not RYL's philosophy.

I completely get that everyone should have their own input and I'm all for the community having an opinion, so, I just had mine..

Make sense?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors

In response to "how can a cut be lovely, or a b/p session fantastic", I think what they mean is that the behaviour was "fantastic" in the sense that they feel relieved, or better after doing so,, they're not saying the behaviour itself is an amazing thing to do, but moreso the person's feelings after engaging in the behaviour.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TranquilChaos

A cut can be lovely in the fact that it has relieved you, it has made you calmer, it has taken weight off your shoulders.
A b/p session can be fantastic in the same way, or it may calm the urges down which is pretty fantastic in my book.
Sometimes people are so deep in these things that it becomes all they do, all they think about, all they crave, and all they feel they need to survive.
When they get that "fix", that can feel almost euphoric for some people.
Just because someone says that a cut is lovely or feels so good, or a b/p session was fantastic or felt amazing, doesn't mean it's encouraging it for others.
They are saying how they felt about what just happened.
They are expressing themselves.
They are not saying that the behaviour in itself is a wonderful thing to go and do, I know I hate the fact that I feel unable to stop doing the things I do, but they are merely saying how they felt & what that behaviour has done for them inside, how it's made them feel, what they're thinking afterwards.
I don't think that's uncalled for, at all.

I get what you're saying and I agree but then I have seen threads that have literally just said, "that cut was lovely" or "that b/p sesh was fantastic". Fair enough, the release / feeling afterwards probably was lovely or fantastic but can you not see how some people might take it the wrong way or in a different way than the OP had intended it to sound?

[Cryptic.]

It's not the persons fault for how other people perceive what they said, all that should matter is that is their thread, their space to say whatever they wish to say. If people perceive it differently to how it was meant to be perceived, that is not the posters fault or problem in my opinion.

I'm off to bed now anyway, so won't be responding to any more posts until the morning time. Night.

[JaffaCake.]

I know it's not the OP's fault if it is percieved differently but would it really be hard to consider other people? I know that during ranting, you don't normally stop & think about what to write, I'm getting that. But say you went into a thread and something was just there in your face about something you'd rather avoid or not think about. Would you feel differently then?

You'll probably just say that it was your responsibility to go into the thread in the first place, (which I agree with) but, try to think of the reversed roles.

Good night.

[Rubik'sCube]

This is a recovery website. People have sought it out in the hope that it will help is some way towards that recovery. So it is only fair that this recovery isn't enforced on an individual too soon by stating that a part of their thinking needs editing and removing, if you try to enforce certain thinking on people usually all that it achieves is to push them further away and send even more defences crashing down. It may be easy for an objective person to say your thinking is faulty/not healthy (which is what may be needed if offered in a supportive manner) but removing these thoughts from R&V does nothing positive for the person except to make them feel guilty or perhaps inferior or that they have to continually self-moniter/check what they write. Don’t they possibly have to do that enough in their everyday lives as it is?? We all grapple with different issues and no one is perfect so can not tell someone what they should or should not think. They can advise, things can be said in a thoughtful way, when offering support or advice. Removing/editing the posts may help other people to not feel triggered but they have a responsibility themselves for their own actions. Personally I think the individual having the space to vent their emotions/actions and their effect upon them should be prioritised over the likelihood of someone else being triggered (who has entered into that person's world by clicking onto their thread in R&V knowing full well it contains triggering content) being dampened/lessened. I can understand if someone was actively promoting an ED or SH as the way to be, almost religion or cult like (in the sense of follow my ways/join my cause), stating others should partake in certain activities. That would be wrong but I do not see how saying that cut or purge was fantastic does that. And if someone does feel they are more likely to engage in ED/SH behaviours as a result of reading someone’s rant taking away that rant will not solve the problem because if that person really wanted to they could seek out lots of triggering and even pro content by way of google.

I agree that if someone is talking about pills/OD then only one X/* should be allowed to be used because if someone for example had three then someone viewing that may feel their emotions aren't validated/serious enough because they 'only' considered taking x or xx and then may feel it should become a higher number or three figure number to match others behaviour/thinking or they may not seek help if they have taken less in comparison to others. Which is worrying and dangerous, the emotions behind someone's behaviours are the important thing.

[Annaberry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by -LetMeSign-

I know it's not the OP's fault if it is percieved differently but would it really be hard to consider other people? I know that during ranting, you don't normally stop & think about what to write, I'm getting that. But say you went into a thread and something was just there in your face about something you'd rather avoid or not think about. Would you feel differently then?

You'll probably just say that it was your responsibility to go into the thread in the first place, (which I agree with) but, try to think of the reversed roles.

Good night.

I know that post was directed at Sarah (or at least I think it was), but whenever I've read something like that that triggered me, I've just gone "Oh, sh**." and left the thread. I don't expect people to change their emotional outlet for me or anyone else. I think we can agree to try and be more considerate but I don't think it's totally fair to expect people to censor their feelings somewhere designed to let feelings out. I just hope people use private journals rather than here, so they don't keep things locked up. I wish we didn't have to tell people to go elsewhere, is all.

And Rubik'sCube, that post was very well put together and I agree with what you've said.

[Rubik'sCube]

That's their responsibility. If someone told you to murder because for them it was fantastic, would you do that?

Everyone has a choice of whether or not to enter/click on a thread or post.

The mere fact that ED's and SH exists might encourage someone to engage in those behaviours, does that mean RYL should not exist?

Acknowledgement of behaviours needs to happen (whether this is positive or negative) in order that someone can recover, being in denial (or being made to hide their true thoughts by way of having them removed/edited) will not aid that recovery process. Just like someone knowingly looking at triggering content is not helping their own recovery.

[xlaurenx]

I agree with having the X pills etc but like someone else had said. Its a R&V thread, no one else replies, people knoe its a triggering place(R&V) Though i thought we had the 'hide' boxes for that reason. Though i do see both sides but sometimes people just want to get their feelings out, people know its triggering, if you dont wanna be triggered you dont go on that board. Simple.

[Greyscale]

Personally, I really don't think R&V should be edited. I suppose I can understand only having one 'x', although that really bothers my OCD tendencies, as even if I had only done one of something, I'd be prone to put xxx because xxx could be a word, where as x couldn't.

R&V used to allow replies. Now that it doesn't, I don't see why people really even need to worry about 'glamorizing' etc as no one is responding to it and no one has to read it at all. R&V has always been triggering.. and a place to get one's thoughts out without being as censored.

It is the only place where I would have felt comfortable saying that, yes, I enjoyed doing some random behavior, because anywhere else, admitting that would be called glamorizing.

It saddens me that things have been edited for 'glamorizing' in R&V.. if you can't admit to not regretting doing something there, where do you expect people to do it?

I don't think anyone can say that they don't get a release from doing what they do. How is not expressing the truth going to make anything better?

[Pomegranate]

I will admit to being guilty of using X's in place of numbers and I totally get how that could be triggering, hence why I deleted or edited the posts pretty soon afterwards (and then had a couple further edited by mods).

I think there needs to be a balance between people having a degree of personal responsibility and people also considering other people's reactions. I think recognising that your own actions, self destructive or other wise may have a negative impact on people is just as much a part of 'recovery' as anything else. In the same way people blame other people for their reactions, they should also learn that their actions can contribute towards them and vice versa. I do accept that sometimes things are written or said in the 'heat of the moment', when people are feeling highly distressed or emotional but I think allowances are made for that.

Personally I find descriptions of cuts, how 'fantastic' and how 'releasing' or whatever the phrases chosen are, far more triggering than any numbers or number of X's. I get that some people are in a place where harming/purging/restricting etc is almost everything to them and can almost become the only positive in their lives. I don't see why having rules that prevent them expressing that, and thereby possibly challenging it by doing so is bad for their well being. In my mind the only part that 'kicks' off about someone having to reconsider their definition or opinion of destructive behaviours is the 'unwell' part of them.

The site is called 'RECOVERyourlife' and no longer 'RUINyourlife' for a reason. Don't get me wrong, I miss a lot about the old Ruin days but if people chose to be a member of a recovery site then they have to respect some restrictions.

[Cryptic.]

I have been in the reversed role, where I have been triggered because someone said for example "I loved seeing the blood in that cut, it felt so good", or if they say "I've had xx stitches, they said they've never seen self harm that bad before" - yeah that triggers me, that makes the urges stronger, that makes me want to, as someone said in here, compete, but I took responsibility for it myself and I wouldn't prevent someone from expressing how they felt because of being triggered which in the end was my own doing.

The only times I will report is if someone is breaking the rules, and expressing how you feel, about whatever bothers you/affects you/what you're going through in the R&V forum, which is what it was designed for, is not breaking the rules.

Nobody HAS to read those threads, they are your own personal threads where you can express yourself, I don't think you should have to be restricted in how you express yourself, why should you? It's your own space.
In the R&V forum, you don't have to read those threads, people choose to read them knowing they could get triggered or become tempted to engage in the same behaviour(s) that is spoken about, just like in the other forums.
I don't see why you should change how you express yourself in your own thread for other people.

I think Rubik's posts, both of them, explain what I wanted to get across very well, so I agree 100%. I also agree with Lauren, Anna & aeternal.

[All I know is falling.]

I'm not quite sure how much sense this will make, I'm tired. I'll try to be as coherent as possible.

I think the thing that has bothered me about posts being edited in the R&V forum is that it clearly says, before you go on the board, that posts will be triggering and to enter at your own risk (or something along those lines). A big part of recovering is learning what upsets/triggers you and learning how to cope with it, or at least avoid it when possible. When I was in recovery from my SI, I stayed away from the self injury board because it upset me more than it helped me. It was my responsibility to take care of myself, not the rest of the website. If you know something is going to trigger you, then you need to take the steps to overcoming that, or at least protecting yourself from it if you aren't ready for recovery.

As for the X's, I find this annoying. When I'm reading someone's rant and they've put more than one X it really doesn't bother me. An x doesn't give away anything, the only person who actually knows what it means is the original poster. And if somebody is going to get triggered by an X, well I'm sorry to say, that's kind of silly. Also, this does not mean I'm for numbers. I'm not saying to bring numbers back, because that would be upsetting for me, but an X should not be considered something triggering.

As for posts that glamorize eating disorders and self injury, I think it's really hard to draw a line on what's glamorizing. I would never say anything to another person on here encouraging them to engage in the same type of behavior as me, what I write in my rant is specific only to me. If I heard anybody else talking like this about it, I would tell them how dangerous it is and urge them to get help. What I write in my rant is what I think- well not even that- it's what my mind replays in my head over and over and over again. Writing it out in my rant helps to clear my mind.

[Snow White.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LetMeSign

But there's a very fine line between triggering and just being plain old uncalled for.

I get, that the R&V board is for obviously, ranting about what's bothering you and to get things off of your chest and it's good to get things out about stuff you wouldn't normally say to anyone but, there really does have to be a line between getting your feelings out, and being over the top. And if this is the way the mods are going to try and limit the amount of post reports from members because a post has multiple x's or *'s, then so be it. Or for someone to not right, "that was a lovely cut" or "that b/p session was fantastic". I've seen that quite a few times around that forum and I can understand why someone struggling with those issues would be upset / triggered. Now, me personally, am not easily triggered by something like that but I can see how it's glamourising it. How can any cut be 'lovely' or a b/p sesh 'fantastic'?

Edit: Jodie, I see where you're coming from but if there were no rules at all, where would we all be?

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourockmysocks

If people say that their experience of something is fantastic and great, other people are gonna want to try that thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

get that some people are in a place where harming/purging/restricting etc is almost everything to them and can almost become the only positive in their lives. I don't see why having rules that prevent them expressing that, and thereby possibly challenging it by doing so, is bad for their well being. In my mind the only part that 'kicks' off about someone having to reconsider their definition of destructive behaviours is the 'unwell' part of them.

Thank you, I agree with these, and the many other similar comments on this page.

We're not removing all triggering content. Posts are being edited because they have been seen to be glamorising dangerous behaviours, and even then, not all posts by that nature but the ones that are reported by other members.

I understand the argument about people needing to take control over their own lives and their responses and stuff, but if people are getting seriously upset by some of these things being posted - and they are reporting it - what exactly are we to do? "Thanks for the report about the post. We're not dealing with it though - you should adapt your response."

Then you'd see a thread about that - we can't win, really.

[sherlock holmes]

I've been on RYL since the ruin days, and since we turned to recoveryourlife I've seen how the R&V has changed, and I can say at the moment it is at it's most "glamourising". That may not even be a word, but it's more like ruinyourlife now than it ever was.

It's hard to explain why as I cannot use specific examples, but it's not just me picking up on this as we do get post reports surrounding this.

There is a complete ban on numbers- you all agreed for this when it was being discussed in the ED board, so why in the ranting and venting forum is it now okay to signify weights and calories with x's that is clear to everyone what it means? Just putting one x there is no harder and it keeps everyone safe. Not everyone is triggered by numbers, but others are.

You cant blame other people for coming into your thread and being triggered, because they knew the R&V forum can get triggering. If that were the case, RYL would have no rules whatsoever, because it's a self injury site and is therefore triggering full stop. This is a recovery site, we need rules, people need to be protected from triggers (though not all, I agree) or else this site is not serving its purpose.

Trust me, there is a difference between saying you cut and you felt the relief, and writing about it in a way that is romanticising it and making it out to be this utterly wonderful, amazing thing and describing it in graphic, graphic detail. If you want to write things like that- use a livejournal.

And no-one is saying you cant complain, or have your say about these things, I was just about to make a thread here for opinions and I saw this one.

These rules apply across the WHOLE of RYL. Including journals.

[Dreaming.]

TBF., I read through the new rules and thought "wtf? These aren't new rules, surely they're just clarification of old rules". They don't seem different at all to me, apart from the one x instead of xx or xxx for weights and stuff. That does seem a wee step too far, but it's hardly the end of the world. It doesn't require too much in the way of behaviour changing, and it does make sense.

I think this again comes down to RYL being used as a sole base of support. There are other options available - like xanga, lj etc. - and personally, I think it's probably pretty unhealthy to only use RYL as support.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah

I've been on RYL since the ruin days, and since we turned to recoveryourlife I've seen how the R&V has changed, and I can say at the moment it is at it's most "glamourising". That may not even be a word, but it's more like ruinyourlife now than it ever was.

I would disagree with that. Having been on since Ruin too, I'd say that at the moment, it's probably the most glamourising compared with the rest of the site - but that's because it all used to be pretty down with SI. Or being down with it probably isn't right, but it didn't discourage talking about it in a positive way. So although the rest of the site compared to R&V makes R&V look 'glamourising', it seems to me that it's more because the rest of the site used to be more in line with what R&V is now. If that makes sense?

But I think one of the biggest changes is that the average user now is both younger and more immature. That's not a bad thing, it's just the way that it rolls, but I would say that the attitude is more immature, and I think the site has to change to reflect that.

Granted, Ruin was what? six, seven years ago, so my memory isn't necessarily truthful about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarah

Trust me, there is a difference between saying you cut and you felt the relief, and writing about it in a way that is romanticising it and making it out to be this utterly wonderful, amazing thing and describing it in graphic, graphic detail. If you want to write things like that- use a livejournal.

Yes yes yes. 110%.