well how do you know why i self harm? i mean, if im not allowed support about one thing, or another thing, then there's no point.
I can't understand why everyones so against support for the lgbt community! it's hard to overcome prejudices, and i'm offended myself, that what, I should just get over hearing that a gay teenager was murdered for it? I should get over the bullying I went through at school? Let me just call my friend and tell him that he should get over his getting called a faggot and beaten up.
Coz hey, yeah, one day I discovered I wasn't straight and everything was wonderful. it's great. there are charities and helplines, but there's no reason for them. nobody ever spat on me and called me a lezzer. i never walked to school everyday dreading the fact that i would get there.
So if you wanna burn yourself remember that I love you
And if you wanna cut yourself remember that I love you
And if you wanna kill yourself remember that I love you
Call me up before you're dead
We can make some plans instead
Send me an IM, I'll be your friend Kimya Dawson - Loose Lips - Juno Soundtrack
Sorry but no one here is agaisnt the support, people are just saying wouldnt it be better to raise awrness with events rather than a day of silence, isnt the whole point to get people to talk about the issues that affect them rather than being silent about it?
I think you need to calm down rather than getting so defensive.
"Its not how long a star shines, what is remembered is the brightness of the light"
I think there's a fine line between raising awareness and acting like this, as if abuse because you're from the LGBT lifestyle is so much worse. I've suffered severe racial abuse, but I'm making those experiences into something good. I'm not showing off about it. I'm helping others, but on the quiet. Is that not a bad enough thing, then?
We're just saying that awareness can be gained in other, arguably better, ways.
I would also say that the problems within the so-called community should be sorted. For example, bisexuals are at best tolerated, lesbians face sexism and demeaning treatment from the men, trans are not very well integrated either. There are a myriad of problems within the group which should be the first priority, in my opinion.
That's a good point, actually. Wouldn't it be better for everyone to integrate into the community together? Straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual etc. It just seems like it's a club that is separating sexualities from each other - and most from the straight community. It just doesn't seem like people who are in the LGBT community are doing themselves a favour by separating themselves. There again, maybe you can get really good support in the LGBT club for how to live in the general community, IDK.
i don't understand things like this. i don't understand how you not speaking for one day will help those people at all.
directly, it wont.
indirectly, through discussions like the one we're undertaking right now, it raises awareness and makes people think.
but ultimately there are better ways than just not talking for a day!
Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicFailGirl
I'm Christian and I'm bisexual! Just to let people know that it's not God that has prejudices, it's people.
^ i'm not christian but i know a lot of people from the LGBT community that are, it's quite an old fashioned idea that the homophobic people are christian as actually these days the homophobic people are uneducated teenagers who care more about sex and burberry caps than anything else. These are unlikely to be christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Angel
I dont see why they need support either, yes your reasons are valid, but people face the same issues for thier skin colour, religion, your background ect, it isnt limited to the LGBT community, people face descrimintation for everything these days.
LOL
yes, and people get support for racial abuse, religion, financial situation!!
The support for those who are victims of racism is FAR higher than the support for victims of homophobic abuse.
of course people face discrimination for everything now that's just how the world is but does that mean we should just accept it? or should we fight for equality? you cant blame the LGBT community for wanting to fight for their own equality and it's touching that so many non-LGBT people supported that cause as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One Who
I would also say that the problems within the so-called community should be sorted. For example, bisexuals are at best tolerated, lesbians face sexism and demeaning treatment from the men, trans are not very well integrated either. There are a myriad of problems within the group which should be the first priority, in my opinion.
This isn't actually true it's a very stereotypical viewpoint. In my experience there is more active support these days for bisexuals than there is for gay men. Yes, there are the pretend bisexuals but they don't integrate into the community anyway. None of the lesbians I know have ever faced sexism by gay men, whereas many have experienced verbal abuse from straight people. Trans people are not as well integrated as the other groups because their difference is with gender identity and not with sexuality. They are two very different things and many feel that the trans community should be kept very separate from the LGB community which makes a lot of sense considering that a gay man won't know a lot about a transsexual woman's issues.
Basically there aren't these problems at all where did you get that from?
Not only that but the "community" is only a community because they come together themselves for support - the majority of their time they integrate and it just so happens that many straight people don't accept this and push LGBT people to seek friendship and companionship with each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthernLights
That's a good point, actually. Wouldn't it be better for everyone to integrate into the community together? Straight, gay, lesbian, bisexual etc. It just seems like it's a club that is separating sexualities from each other - and most from the straight community. It just doesn't seem like people who are in the LGBT community are doing themselves a favour by separating themselves. There again, maybe you can get really good support in the LGBT club for how to live in the general community, IDK.
the LGBT community doesnt separate itself. It is not a "club" people do not choose to be members. Some choose purely to engange in activities within the community because that is who they feel comfortable with as their group of friends, others dont. Everyone likes to have friends with similar interests. I think many straight people would feel left out if they could only socialise with gay men their whole lives and would search for other straight people to share experiences with.
"this is the room where you don't have to be brave"
This isn't actually true it's a very stereotypical viewpoint. In my experience there is more active support these days for bisexuals than there is for gay men. Yes, there are the pretend bisexuals but they don't integrate into the community anyway. None of the lesbians I know have ever faced sexism by gay men, whereas many have experienced verbal abuse from straight people. Trans people are not as well integrated as the other groups because their difference is with gender identity and not with sexuality. They are two very different things and many feel that the trans community should be kept very separate from the LGB community which makes a lot of sense considering that a gay man won't know a lot about a transsexual woman's issues.
Basically there aren't these problems at all where did you get that from?
Not only that but the "community" is only a community because they come together themselves for support - the majority of their time they integrate and it just so happens that many straight people don't accept this and push LGBT people to seek friendship and companionship with each other.
I would say generalised rather than stereotypical. Obviously it's not like that in every case, but it is present and does happen. I have 'gotten this from' numerous academic studies that have been done on it and similar topics. As part of my degree I do a geographies of sexualities course, and this has come up time and again. Relations and acceptance is in no way equal within LGBT circles.
Prolly half the freshman class did this at my school on Friday.. I did too it was a great experience.. And it's not helping anyone directly.. But it's the symbolism of those who aren't able to speak because they were bullied until they committed suicide or killed or things like that.. The silence was supposed to in a sense give a voice to those who didn't have one. Idk if that made any sense... But u had to look at the bigger picture.. It was so powerful to see how many participated at my school:) (btw I'm Allissa... Just joined today.. Hii!!)
I would say generalised rather than stereotypical. Obviously it's not like that in every case, but it is present and does happen. I have 'gotten this from' numerous academic studies that have been done on it and similar topics. As part of my degree I do a geographies of sexualities course, and this has come up time and again. Relations and acceptance is in no way equal within LGBT circles.
no, it isnt equal, but it is more equal than between LGBT and non-LGBT people. It's just a little insulting to members of LGBT community to imply that they shouldn't have protection from outside abuse because sometimes there is discrimination between them too - they don't always ask to be thrown under the "LGBT" umbrella sometimes bisexual men want to be treated as bisexual men not as "LGBT". Also, academic studies don't always portray the reality of the situation from the viewpoint of those involved. It is entirely possible that bisexual females experience more stress as a result of discrimination from the straight community than from gay people.
edit: similarly I wouldn't say that racism shouldn't be tackled in the UK because non-British people sometimes fight with each other so they should sort out their own differences first.
"this is the room where you don't have to be brave"
no, it isnt equal, but it is more equal than between LGBT and non-LGBT people. It's just a little insulting to members of LGBT community to imply that they shouldn't have protection from outside abuse because sometimes there is discrimination between them too - they don't always ask to be thrown under the "LGBT" umbrella sometimes bisexual men want to be treated as bisexual men not as "LGBT". Also, academic studies don't always portray the reality of the situation from the viewpoint of those involved. It is entirely possible that bisexual females experience more stress as a result of discrimination from the straight community than from gay people.
edit: similarly I wouldn't say that racism shouldn't be tackled in the UK because non-British people sometimes fight with each other so they should sort out their own differences first.
I didn't say they should get support or have anti-discrimination to help, I did say that there's better ways of doing it. Even this discussion doesn't achieve anything because RYL is already very LGBT-friendly, as a whole.
I also wouldn't say that the 'divide' between gay and straight is as sharp as you suggest. If you are a young, (working) middle-class, white gay male you will more than likely fit in to the heteronormative society, as well as having most 'gay space' being designed for them to the exclusion of others.
wow. debate and a half. as a bisexual female, the only prejudice ive had is from straight people who called me a lesbian. oh, and sometimes people who havent heard of bisexuality think im obv a slut and greedy.
So if you wanna burn yourself remember that I love you
And if you wanna cut yourself remember that I love you
And if you wanna kill yourself remember that I love you
Call me up before you're dead
We can make some plans instead
Send me an IM, I'll be your friend Kimya Dawson - Loose Lips - Juno Soundtrack
wow. debate and a half. as a bisexual female, the only prejudice ive had is from straight people who called me a lesbian. oh, and sometimes people who havent heard of bisexuality think im obv a slut and greedy.
similar ^^ I wont explain my sexuality it will confuse people but basically I'm in a fully functioning heterosexual long term relationship and I still havent experienced any prejudice from the LGBT community.
Quote:
I didn't say they should get support or have anti-discrimination to help, I did say that there's better ways of doing it. Even this discussion doesn't achieve anything because RYL is already very LGBT-friendly, as a whole.
I also wouldn't say that the 'divide' between gay and straight is as sharp as you suggest. If you are a young, (working) middle-class, white gay male you will more than likely fit in to the heteronormative society, as well as having most 'gay space' being designed for them to the exclusion of others.
you did say that though, you said they should sort out the problems within the community first. So i'm telling you that there are no problems within the community to sort out. This discussion will just clear up individuals perceptions on the issue really.
And I never gave an indication of how sharp the divide between gay and straight is apart from it is MORE than the divide within the LGBT community. which is true.
Nobody is excluded from the LGBT community. The president of Durham university LGBTA last year was straight. People choose not to get involved in the "gay space" because they are uncomfortable with it.
"this is the room where you don't have to be brave"
Most of my friends are straight. I have 4 very close friends. They're all straight. One of my friends is Bi. I'm a lesbian. There isn't a divide as such with us. In the end, we're all friends because we all like each others' personalities. We're not friends because we're all gay, or all straight, or all bi.
It's not the sexualities themselves that split us apart. It's people's opinion of them. Why does it matter whether I love a girl and Charli (female) loves a boy? Why does it matter that Kieran falls for both? We're all people. We're all different. Sexuality is what we each make of it. There should be no hate about loving someone.
I don't identify with LGBT because I am not a label. I am not someone who is classified as LGBT. I am Sarah. Sarah is a lesbian, but it's not what I am. It's who I am, and who I am is Sarah. Does that make sense?
I've only just scanned through this, so sorry if I repeat a point which is already made, but this caught my eye:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderful_feeling
Most of my friends are straight. I have 4 very close friends. They're all straight. One of my friends is Bi. I'm a lesbian. There isn't a divide as such with us. In the end, we're all friends because we all like each others' personalities. We're not friends because we're all gay, or all straight, or all bi.
It's not the sexualities themselves that split us apart. It's people's opinion of them. Why does it matter whether I love a girl and Charli (female) loves a boy? Why does it matter that Kieran falls for both? We're all people. We're all different. Sexuality is what we each make of it. There should be no hate about loving someone.
I don't identify with LGBT because I am not a label. I am not someone who is classified as LGBT. I am Sarah. Sarah is a lesbian, but it's not what I am. It's who I am, and who I am is Sarah. Does that make sense?
I couldn't agree more. Why create barriers, groups, and segregation for something that is aimed to be showing that individuals, regardless of sexuality, are not as different as people try to force members of other 'groups' to seem. To me, society has it all wrong in this sense and it bugs the hell out of me - surely it'll only worsen the problem?
I've only just scanned through this, so sorry if I repeat a point which is already made, but this caught my eye:
I couldn't agree more. Why create barriers, groups, and segregation for something that is aimed to be showing that individuals, regardless of sexuality, are not as different as people try to force members of other 'groups' to seem. To me, society has it all wrong in this sense and it bugs the hell out of me - surely it'll only worsen the problem?
I think you're right.
I think one of the problems is that to most people's minds (the ones who are only interested in sex and burberry caps (sorry, I loved that )), if you're not straight and you're a guy, you're gay. If you're not straight and you're a girl, you're a lesbian. They don't think of Bisexuality. Pansexuality. Bicuriosity.
And how has this divide been created? History. In history, us homosexuals were imprisoned and/or killed. What am I saying? People are still living in history. That's the divide. It's the majority society that creates the tension. It's the minority within society that tries to solve it.
True! Homosexuality was in the DSM until - I believe - the 70s.
Personally I get all confused about the possible labels my sexuality can have, so I try not to bother with it all. My next relationship will be either with a guy or a girl.
My brother said once he doesn't like bisexuals because he thinks they just can't choose. So I bought him a book on bisexuality and the bugger wouldn't give it back.
True! Homosexuality was in the DSM until - I believe - the 70s.
Personally I get all confused about the possible labels my sexuality can have, so I try not to bother with it all. My next relationship will be either with a guy or a girl.
My brother said once he doesn't like bisexuals because he thinks they just can't choose. So I bought him a book on bisexuality and the bugger wouldn't give it back.
I think you really have the best outlook. In the end, I class myself as a lesbian because the majority of people don't understand my idea of the sliding scale thing. I'm pretty much all gay, but I still have a part that's straight enough to think a guy's hot. But I don't think I could ever have a meaningful relationship with a guy.
People don't get the sliding scale thing even more when you make it three dimensional based on the sex of the person and the gender identity (which is in itself a sliding scale)
I still identify as a lesbian in my head because the majority of people that I like and would be in relationships with are female but I have to identify as bisexual to everyone else because i'm in a long term relationship with a man.
The thing I think is important is that really homosexuals/bisexuals etc. shouldn't need to be defined under the LGBT umbrella because there should be indifference in society. In reality this is never going to be the case and realistically there do need to be different social groups of people with similar interests and I don't see why sexuality can't be a defining characteristic for a social group considering everyone I know thats LGBT (a lot of people =P) is also perfectly comfortable within a group of straight friends and "straight society".
"this is the room where you don't have to be brave"
)), if you're not straight and you're a guy, you're gay. If you're not straight and you're a girl, you're a lesbian. They don't think of Bisexuality. Pansexuality. Bicuriosity.