And the family of the victims of rape or children/family members who are kidnapped don't have their lives changed forever?
In my personal opinion these can be just as traumatic as a murder, in a way murder does have closure, albeit not nice closure. Kidnap you often don't get that closure: prime example Claudia Lawrence, Madaline Mcann. The family of these two people have been destroyed by them disappearing.
I'm not saying we a should let murderers off the hook, stop twisting my words. I'm saying they should be punished but, to me, killing them is just as bad as the crime committed.
I would say life imprisonment for taking a life, but in this country life isn't always life sadly.
In my personal opinion these can be just as traumatic as a murder, in a way murder does have closure, albeit not nice closure. Kidnap you often don't get that closure: prime example Claudia Lawrence, Madaline Mcann. The family of these two people have been destroyed by them disappearing.
So if Madeleine McCann is found alive and it turns out to have been a case of kidnap and not murder then it'll be just as bad as if she's been murdered? I have not been in the situation but can imagine I'd rather find my loved one alive. I know your point was more about the not knowing being difficult, but I don't think its right to say that kidnap should hold the same punishment as murder.
I do agree with you though on capital punishment Cat. Tony, your argument was strongly based on how unfair it is for the families that the murderer lives whilst they don't get their loved one back. Killing the murderer does nothing to improve on the 'my family member is dead' situation. It doesn't bring them back or make it any easier for the family to grieve.
I think that countries with capital punishment create a really ironic situation where if you murder someone because they've done something to you (because they stole money, or hurt your family etc) that the state can say 'that was a really wrong thing to do' then do exactly the same.
Well no Jenna, if she is found alive and well that would be amazing. The point I was making is that the whole not knowing what happened in kidnap can be just as traumatic as murder. That said it could be traumatic for the family being reunited due to the age she was taken but it wouldn't be on par with the trauma of loosing someone forever. Yet the reuniting of families and the issues it can cause are a debate for another day.
However I think you are missing the point I was making Jenna. I'm saying that I don't think it is right to kill a killer just because it causes trauma to a family. It is not the only crime that can cause a massive trauma in a family. I was using Madeline's kidnap as an example of a traumatic event that can destroy a family.
Actually of course this whole debate is academic since there's no way that any government in UK is going to re-introduce the death penalty. But I still believe that in many cases it would be warranted and if there were to be a referendum on the subject I suspect that a surprisingly high proportion of people would be in favour - though perhaps not a majority.
As to rape, which has been mentioned, I can think of solutions involving wire-cutters which would ensure that those guilty would never do it again ...
C'mon Enthused, I was of course joking. But I nevertheless believe that a case could be made for serial rapists to be chemically or surgically sterilised so that they were no longer a menace to society ...
The following content has been hidden - Reason : TW rape
Quote:
Originally Posted by Epic
Because men are the only people capable of rape, and penises are the only things capable of penetrating another person's body?
At least in England, the legal definition of rape does actually require a penis to have been used to penetrate. Of course I know that there are many others forms of sexual violence, but actually I think Tony's definition is correct!
And Cat, I didn't miss the point you were making, the not knowing is of course ridiculously traumatic, but at the end of the day I think murder rightly holds a higher punishment than kidnap(not the death penalty though!) and I don't think Tony saying that he thinks murder being traumatic was him saying that things weren't.
I am against capital punishment. The murder of someone devastates a family, to kill the perpetrator only leads to the devastation of a second family. The perpertrator isn't paying for their crimes they are dead it is their family that ends up paying the price and I can't stand for that.
I can see how some people could be for some people who commit horrendous crimes such as the murder of Lee Rigby but how do you regulate that? Some cases may seem "clear cut" that they deserve to be execute or the other way that there is mitigating circumstances that mean they get a reprieve but what about you massive grey area in between. Also, how long before the definition used gets diluted and then it ends up the norm.
So, snuff out someone else's life and probably those of their family, shrug your shoulders, face up to a few years in prison - with telly and all - and walk away free. It really doesn't sound exactly fair to me ...
I don't think prisons are as bad as they were in the 70s and stuff but I don't think they are holiday enviroments either. Would you want to spend time in Barlinnie or Parkhurst? I sure as hell would not.
