I wanted to reply to his, but dont want to be harsh in any way.
But this forum is for everyone, whether they are ill or not, and specific members being able to post photos, and others not because they are slightly different, would that not be classed as discrimination?
I think we seem to always have the problem, with "thinspo" and self harm in photos, but I think all of us, no matter where we are with our illness's have to realise that other people are at different stages.
Whilst I agree, that thinspo should not be posted, to me that is, people posing or angling photos to show off bones etc.
Recent photos Ive seen havent seemed a problem to me.
Im not sure we are ever going to solve this situation?
Out of curiosity, does this only apply to those people whom we know to have established eating disorders?
What if someone were, for example, extremely underweight due to a physical illness rather than an ED? If I were emaciated and going through invasive physical recovery would my pictures be equally deemed as "thinspo" purely because of my weight? Or would they be accepted because my weight wasn't achieved by disordered habits?
Is it the association that somebody is underweight because of an eating disorder that's the problem, or the fact that they are underweight to begin with?
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I see free cheese
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But this forum is for everyone, whether they are ill or not, and specific members being able to post photos, and others not because they are slightly different, would that not be classed as discrimination?
I don't think anyone has at any point said that emaciated members may never post pictures of themselves. Attention has in fact been drawn to the fact that many of Helen's pictures have remained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shenanigans
Out of curiosity, does this only apply to those people whom we know to have established eating disorders?
I guess if they appeared to be doing a thinspo pose, then yes I probably would still report it. Although I think on this site where we are likely to be aware of whether or not someone has an eating disorder, it is more likely to cause distress if the person is known to have an ED because the viewer knows that the person has achieved this emaciated body by engaging in eating disordered behaviours which gives it a more competitive element than someone who is just naturally that way.
I'm personally getting a bit caught up on the word "thinspiration". I know that's the word mentioned in the rules, but I think that possibly the word could be changed with "triggering photos".
It's really hard to comment on this issue and not directly refer to the photos of Helen that I saw in her thread. I don't wish to be offensive to anyone.
I think that someone who is extremely underweight, whether through an ED or not, certain photos will emphasise that and others wont. Not necessarily intentionally, but naturally in photos we make different poses and shapes, and some of those make limbs stick out a bit more than others and become prominent. I suppose these sorts of photographs can be triggering to certain people, and RYL has to be mindful of that.
I don't think it's about discriminating or saying no-one underweight or with an ED can post photos of themselves. Maybe it's about being more mindful of what the photograph is emphasising, or what can be seen in the photo before posting it on RYL.
I know that photographs are taken spontaneously in happy times, but I guess if someone had fresh cuts and one day they had spontaneous photos taken that showed the cuts, then it would still be against RYLs rules and couldn't be posted.
Just my 2 cents!
Isn’t it funny how day by day nothing changes but when you look back, everything is different…
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I think part of it is by maybe trying to look at the photos critically themselves if they know they've got an ED/ are underweight and maybe it becomes more of an issue if they have had pictures removed from here before. It may mean asking a 3rd person (PM'ing a mod with the pictures maybe) and asking if they look ok before posting them and then maybe they could say 'the pose in this one eccentuates x and therefore could cause a problem' or 'if you crop y out then it'll be fine' to get rid of a particular part of the body which may highlight it more whilst not getting rid of the nature of the photo. This way you're getting the photos you want without the risk of getting them removed and the distress that this can cause. I'm not just directing this to Helen and Sarah but to anyone who worries this may be a problem.
I am naturally thin, partly due to my figure, partly due to medical problems. Also, my medical problems also mean that ideally I have to keep my weight just underweight or on the low end of normal. My boyfriend took a photo of some food we ordered the other week to show people what it was like and put it on FB. My fingers happened to be in the picture and it was only once it was shown to me that I realised how thin they looked. Even though it's just my fingers, with how they look on that photo I'd second guess posting them on RYL (if I posted pictures of myself which I don't) and part of that was probably just down to the angle the photo was taken and the position of my hands. People have to be aware that even if they don't intend photo's to be thinsperation, it's not the intention that necessarily matters, it's what the end pic looks like because people don't necessarily know your intentions and so may just see the photo out of context and it triggers them.
There were discussions years ago amongst the staff about photos with people with really low BMIs in them and I don't know the outcome but I remember that this was discussed indepth as I can remember bringing up about my weight and it not being due to an ED and wondering if I would be able to post pictures of myself especially if it was at one of the times it had dropped more. I was told that I could so long as, just like people with EDs, I made sure it didn't look like it was being eccentuated/ the main feature of the photo whether on purpose or not. The reason why I bring this up is to say that it does apply to everyone, it's not focussed on certain users. Also, as well as that, it shows that the staff members (and not just the mods) have discussed this in quite a lot of detail in the past. Before anything is deleted, especially photos, mods do think about it in a lot of detail and unless it is obviously breaking the rules (eg. blatent thinspo, nudity or wounds), the mods will not make a decision alone, they will make it between at least 2, usually 3 of them to ensure that it is fair and also that it has been thought about. It won't be something that a mod enjoys doing and I'm sure they'd prefer to work with you to have a set of photos which the you and the mods are both happy with.
I think personally, that it is slight discrimination against the fact that people do have chronic ED's and cannot control the fact that they are ill, and that there is no recovery for some people, and are underweight or emaciated if that's the word people want to use, and some people are actually chronically ill, like Hel,
which has been said to her, and I have proof incase some people doubt professionals having said that to her,
that she is chronically ill, and like scars, will be long-term/life-long,
and due to this, as well as other incidents recently, she is feeling ganged up on, pointed out, singled out, etc, especially since I have seen pictures on other threads in that forum where people are clearly posing in a "thinspo" way and I have reported as such and nothing has been done about them, either.
Hence the question about scars being allowed, which did inspire that question, too, but also the fact that scars can be just as triggering, and self harm DOES have a competitive element to it for some people, too.
We are not trying to make this personal, or about any single one person, but since people have brought up the fact about our thread, yes, it did inspire these questions, because the pictures we posted were about our time together, it was nothing to do with Hel's weight, or her body, or bones, or whatever,
frankly, how else is she supposed to take a photo without her arms & shoulders in it?
Hel is already aware of her self image as it is, and photo's are supposed to be fun, enjoyable, not analysing this and that,
however, I DO recognize that it is needed for this forum, that you do need to be aware of the fact it could trigger others if certain aspects of the photograph could be upsetting,
so I'm not denying that nor saying it shouldn't be,
but many people do agree and have already stated many times in the past that this site is wrapped in cotton wool,
yes, it is supposed to be a safe site for people to come to, I realize that.
I think personally, myself and Hel won't post further photos to share our time together, because it has caused too much aggro, something we both don't need, and something I'm sure people on this website don't need, if we do intend to post, we will PM mods.
But, this thread wasn't just about our thread and what has happened.
It was both of us wanting a definition, wanting to know why it's okay for scars to be allowed, wanting to know if a photograph isn't even "thinspo" why it's removed, especially since it is about having a fabulous time, happy times, wanting to share those photo's with others, etc.
I know there are many mixed views from this thread, and everyone is allowed to express their views, hence the thread, so people could in a controlled enviornment do so, so I know some people agree, some disagree, and some are mixed, which is absolutely fine.
Thank you to the MOD's for replying, as well, and explaining to us the questions we had asked.
As I said, in future regarding myself and Hel, we'll either not post whatsoever as to avoid situations like this, or PM MOD's with our photographs.
Perhaps the wording of the rules needs to be changed, so that it can include 'unsuitable photos such as those where a person is very underweight and the angles of the photograph highlight that intentionally, or unintentionally'.
I guess the issue wasnt that it was deliberate, but that the photos were unsuitable for this site. Its a shame this has happened, but I am pleased to be able to read this thread, and see that everyone has remained calm and respectful, that is something positive given the fact this has clearly been upsetting for those involved.
It was both of us wanting a definition, wanting to know why it's okay for scars to be allowed, wanting to know if a photograph isn't even "thinspo" why it's removed, especially since it is about having a fabulous time, happy times, wanting to share those photo's with others, etc.
And I think the answer to that would be scars are allowed, fresh wounds are not. Skinny people are allowed, poses that draw attention to one's excessive skinniness (intentional or otherwise) are not.
If you have post-reported other images, then my understanding of the moderating system is that either a) you have received a response explaining why no action has been take, b)action has been taken (whether you know about it or not) or c) the moderators have not degreed on what action to take yet.
Is the solution possibly putting photos in a hide box so people can chose to look at them or not? I know it's a bit of a cop out but might work? Or at least, if someone reports a photo as 'triggering' and after conversing with the user, the photo is put in a hide box. Would that not work?
I dunno, just throwing ideas around here.
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To me that's comparable to allowing pictures of fresh cuts, but as long as they were in a hide box.
Just because they're hidden by default doesn't mean that it's still okay to post them. Some people could open the box by accident if they didn't read the warning label, others may see the warning but assume they wouldn't get triggered but open the box and get very triggered, or some people might purposely look to be triggered on purpose.
And the end result, even if just for one or two people, are feelings of distress and potentially they harm themselves as a result which goes completely against the ethos of RYL.
I know it's an extreme example, but I think if the rules start to slide on one issue then they can slide on other issue, and then we'd be back to the days of Ruin.
Isn’t it funny how day by day nothing changes but when you look back, everything is different…
you once called your brain a hard drive, well say hello to the virus.
I think for me the line is very fine and that what makes it hard especially when it comes to wording set rules in part as someone could post two pictures that are very similar and one is okay and the other isn't.
I am very aware that on RYL We have people who are very thin due to a number of reasons including eating disorders and as moderators we have to work out what to remove so that we aren't bubble wrapping the site but equally aren't allowing posts that are triggering to remain and to do this it becomes a judgement call.
Eating disorders are to me the biggest battle as a mod we have to deal with in part due to the competitive nature of them and the prevalence of thinspiration. Managing it is tricky and we can't please all of the people all of the time.
I think one thing that I would say is when it comes to editing a post containing a picture we look at how the person is posed and whether this pose accentuates the persons thinness or not (intentional or otherwise) if it does it's more likely to be removed.
One thing I would say is that I tend to pose in a way that flatters me when I have a photo taken sand that's natural but if I was much thinner that pose could result in a picture that was removable as opposes to one that isn't.
Am I making sense.
When we lose twenty pounds... we may be losing the twenty best pounds we have! We may be losing the pounds that contain our genius, our humanity, our love and honesty. ~Woody Allen
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That does make sense, I particularly find it hard as when I see a photo of myself I don't see it as other people may see it i.e I don't see the 'thinness', but in future I'm going to always PM a Mod to be sure
