I just wanna get you guys's (eloquent, I know) opinion on the Anti-Austerity marches that are happening across the world at the moment. I ask you this because today (October 20th), I attended the TUC marches in London (150,000 attended, then factor in the marches across the country). I was amazed at the strength of feeling regarding these cuts and to be honest, they do effect everyone, whether you know it or not.
My Wife has secondary progressive multiple sclerosis and is reliant on her benefits to survive. As her carer, I get virtually no support from the government and basically rely on myself. Her benefits are to be slashed next year and these marches help highlight the fact that people across the country are in the same situation that certain organisations caused.
I don't mean to bring politics into it, but it's almost impossible not to in this case. I don't know how it is for the US, but if things don't get better soon, it's all gonna go very very bad.
"Damaged people are dangerous because we know we can survive"
Nobody ever likes cuts. But if a country s spending way more money than it has, I think it's pretty clear that this cannot keep going. However, it is always wrong to be making these cuts in areas affecting the most disadvantaged members of society. Cuts should not be focused on disability benefits, but moreso in areas affecting people who do have an income, i.e. middle and upper classes.
There's been more than enough money for the people who really need it. The problem is a lot of people are taking benefits that dont need them. In the US 48 million people are on food stamps - that's the population of Spain. Politicians want votes and are giving stuff away like candy. They are winking about "qualifying" actual need. A person can lie on an application and nothing will happen. Everything is out of control. Pretty soon the Mid East is going to blow-up and a barrel of oil will cost a fortune. The finances of the Western World are already a house of cards waiting for a stiff breeze. My advice would be to store food/medicine starting now because a lot of stuff is going to hit at once and its going to catch many people by surprise.
I was at the march yesterday in London, what a great show from the people!
Also, if this government stopped giving tax cuts to the most wealthy there wouldn't have to be any cuts but nope, the wealthy get tax cuts while everyone else gets hit.
I dont think someone is misinformed by asking a question:P
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
Where do these people want the money to come from? Genuine question.
Frankly, some people don't know how good they've got it!
Well, they had it a lot better 5 years ago under a Labour government. The money is there, but the current government believes in letting the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.
I live opposite an estate that in the late 90s was so bad, it was the cheapest place in Europe to buy Heroin. It had a massive amount of money thrown at it under Labour and the New Deal scheme, and it has completely turned around. The money does exist; these cuts we're experiencing now, as a result of the deficit and recession would never have been so bad under Labour.
It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.
Also, if this government stopped giving tax cuts to the most wealthy there wouldn't have to be any cuts but nope, the wealthy get tax cuts while everyone else gets hit.
Are you aware of how much the top-rate of tax is, in real terms? You'd also need to define "wealthy".
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Originally Posted by bobidrawpictures
Well, it may seem you are slightly misinformed about what is happening in the world.
The money could and should come from a number of sources such as;
MP's to travel only by normal class rather than first class on trains etc.
"Mansion Tax" which was only ruled out earlier this month - which would have meant those who have more would pay a fairer share.
Closing loop holes in the tax system which stops both of these; 1 - Individuals being paid as a company to avoid tax - The former head of HRM tax and revenues was paid as a company so to avoid higher tax on his income, this same thing can and is used by others such as the scheme Jimmy Carr used.
2 - Make those companies who make profit in the UK pay tax. For example Vodafone owe between 2 and 6 billion pounds in tax, Make them pay this and that is earning the same amount as early benefit cuts did, Oh I hear you ask but wouldn't vodafone just leave the UK market? No, they will not, They sold off parts in businesses in the past few years and are now only in a small number of markets and thus the UK business plays a massive role in their income which means they will not leave the market and if they did its not like we do not have other companies wanting to take their place! This should be replicated to other firms such as Boots, Topman/shop (The arcadia group), Primark (which is half registered as a charity and thus does not pay full tax) and the big example this week, Starbucks.
I mean, I think its a no brainer that if you make profit within this country it is only right that you pay the tax. Also politicians should be taking a pay cut or receive less expenses, I mean who had the bright idea that you get your wage but on top of that you can claim for the food you consume? IF that was passed out to everyone people would soon start going "hmm there is something not right here, they have their wage and their food too".
Anyway, thats probably a big lefty rant, feel free to be equal and counter balance my points.
I'm quite well informed about the world, or perhaps in response to your points, the UK.
I don't disagree that there are loopholes in the system, loopholes that could have been quite easily closed by Labour... Those who earn more already pay more in (and generally take less out), so really they are already paying more than their fair share. Is it really so wrong to be wealthy?
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Originally Posted by talaiporia
Well, they had it a lot better 5 years ago under a Labour government. The money is there, but the current government believes in letting the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.
Conversely, I have seen things get worse under Labour over the years, with the working poor being made ever-poorer. Also, if I remember correctly, Labour's plans to get the deficit under control were more extreme. Being in opposition is a fairly easy job, you just disagree with everything proposed and you can forget about whatever you said before.
I think the protests are great I have been to several since 2010, largely Education related ones through Uni, but I went to some anti-cuts demo's as well, would have gone yesterday in fact but was seeing friends in Manchester! it's not just protests either, I got involved in a lot of campaigns at my old Uni and hoping to do the same at my new one, if you look around there are lots of grassroots movements out there like local anti-cuts groups and stuff it's an example of people getting involved and trying to change things which is great, just a shame we have a vile government that won't listen to people! though I guess I am kinda biased on these things being a Socialist and all
^what options do your anti-cut groups offer the government, instead of the cuts? I'm not in the UK, but here in Ireland the student unions have been demonstrating a lot about fees, but it was all pretty laughable (despite me being in uni too, so in the same boat) because all they did was list the advantages of keeping stuff the way it is, but not offering any ways of making it viable. You can't expect the government to just keep magicing money out of nowhere just because people don't want cuts.
^what options do your anti-cut groups offer the government, instead of the cuts? I'm not in the UK, but here in Ireland the student unions have been demonstrating a lot about fees, but it was all pretty laughable (despite me being in uni too, so in the same boat) because all they did was list the advantages of keeping stuff the way it is, but not offering any ways of making it viable. You can't expect the government to just keep magicing money out of nowhere just because people don't want cuts.
well, for a start clamping down on all the tax that rich people and big business avoid/evade, some reports estimate that at over £90bn per anum! on top of that I would advocate higher taxes on the rich and big business anyway as they are incredibly wealthy and privileged in our society as it is, I would also cut things like trident and the military budget. scrapping PFI would ironically save money too. I don't know about Ireland, but here if you listen to what people say about student fee's, most of them give you similar points to mine about how to raise the funding, heck their leadership deny it now but the Liberal Democrats actually had abolition of fee's fully costed out and timetabled so it's by no means hard to do, it's just political will that's lacking on that front. austerity is very much ideologically driven, it's also not working for what they want it to do either, here we are still in recession and look at where austerity has got other nations? just put them in an even bigger mess and solved nothing, it ruins lives and in many cases actually kills (see Greece and things like ATOS here as well)
I live opposite an estate that in the late 90s was so bad, it was the cheapest place in Europe to buy Heroin. It had a massive amount of money thrown at it under Labour and the New Deal scheme, and it has completely turned around. The money does exist; these cuts we're experiencing now, as a result of the deficit and recession would never have been so bad under Labour.
I taught near there a lot on Supply!
It was way better than Deptford...
/useless post.
I really didn't mean to cause any arguments with this...
Who has argued?
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Originally Posted by LifeBecomingALandslide
well, for a start clamping down on all the tax that rich people and big business avoid/evade, some reports estimate that at over £90bn per anum! on top of that I would advocate higher taxes on the rich and big business anyway as they are incredibly wealthy and privileged in our society as it is, I would also cut things like trident and the military budget. scrapping PFI would ironically save money too. I don't know about Ireland, but here if you listen to what people say about student fee's, most of them give you similar points to mine about how to raise the funding, heck their leadership deny it now but the Liberal Democrats actually had abolition of fee's fully costed out and timetabled so it's by no means hard to do, it's just political will that's lacking on that front. austerity is very much ideologically driven, it's also not working for what they want it to do either, here we are still in recession and look at where austerity has got other nations? just put them in an even bigger mess and solved nothing, it ruins lives and in many cases actually kills (see Greece and things like ATOS here as well)
Define "rich"? And increase taxes by how much?
Cutting the military budget means a hell of a lot of people will be losing their jobs. People who already have trouble converting to life as a civilian. Where are these people going to be employed? Especially in towns where the military is a big employer?
With higher education funding, the money was always coming from the government, and continues to come from the government, but now more/all of the burden is being placed on the student's shoulders. And why not? These students are, ideally, going to go on and get a decent, well-paying job where every month they can see half their income (or more) disappear instantly in tax. The fact is, there are too many universities and too many students, but it's political suicide (as well as a logistical and economical nightmare) to admit that, and it'll not change any time soon.
With higher education funding, the money was always coming from the government, and continues to come from the government, but now more/all of the burden is being placed on the student's shoulders. And why not? These students are, ideally, going to go on and get a decent, well-paying job where every month they can see half their income (or more) disappear instantly in tax. The fact is, there are too many universities and too many students, but it's political suicide (as well as a logistical and economical nightmare) to admit that, and it'll not change any time soon.
anyone earning more than quadruple the average income seems a logical way of putting it, the average income is about £25k a year, so quadruple that is about £100k a year, this also statistically puts you in the top 10% or less I believe so it's a very fair and logical way of terming someone "rich"
as for how much more, well, I would say that the 50% rate should not only have stayed but should be from 100k rather than 150k, higher rates on incomes over 500k or 1m seem logical to me as well.
we don't ask people at any other level of education to do that and I don't see why University should be any different, it's education not a credit card...I also don't think education is just about getting a good job either but hey-ho. if people want to go to University they should be able to imo, I think we should do more to encourage other options for people as well, but if people want to go to Uni then why not? as for too many universities, tbh I think that should only ever depend on demand for them from potential students, if more or less are needed depending on a number of applications then we should try to keep up with that as best we can to make sure as many people as possible get the options they want from education.
I'm sceptical that taxes need increasing - the money, revenue from tax, VAT is there, it's just not re-distrubuted as well as it could be.
In addition - a bit problem is not the already highly taxed high-earners, but companies (like say, Topshop, Starbucks) or celebrities (like Jimmy Carr) not paying their fair share of tax. I suspect if they all paid what they're supposed to, there would be less need to tax the 'rich' so much - 50% is a lot of tax.
It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.
anyone earning more than quadruple the average income seems a logical way of putting it, the average income is about £25k a year, so quadruple that is about £100k a year, this also statistically puts you in the top 10% or less I believe so it's a very fair and logical way of terming someone "rich"
as for how much more, well, I would say that the 50% rate should not only have stayed but should be from 100k rather than 150k, higher rates on incomes over 500k or 1m seem logical to me as well.
See, I don't really think that overly taxing the "rich" is a particularly fair system, especially when they are statistically less likely to take from the pot. It seems a rather one-way street to me, that the "rich" are easy targets.
I'd like to see to it that employment is not only a viable option for people, but a better option. State benefits increase each year in line with inflation rates, whereas wages don't necessarily. Of course, not only does there need to be jobs for people to do, but there needs to be a will and desire for people to do them.
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we don't ask people at any other level of education to do that and I don't see why University should be any different, it's education not a credit card...I also don't think education is just about getting a good job either but hey-ho. if people want to go to University they should be able to imo, I think we should do more to encourage other options for people as well, but if people want to go to Uni then why not? as for too many universities, tbh I think that should only ever depend on demand for them from potential students, if more or less are needed depending on a number of applications then we should try to keep up with that as best we can to make sure as many people as possible get the options they want from education.
No, university is not just about getting a job, but for a lot of people it is. Universities are becoming more and more like degree factories, and the value of degrees as reduced as a result. The graduate employment market is saturated, and has been for a couple of years now, with exception in some sectors.
I don't believe that university is for everyone, it is for those who are academically capable for it. And not everyone is. There are out routes into university for those who did not gain qualifications in school, but there isn't really enough investment in non-educational paths throughout school and beyond.
I have been to several since 2010, largely Education related ones through Uni, but I went to some anti-cuts demo's as well, would have gone yesterday in fact but was seeing friends in Manchester! it's not just protests either, I got involved in a lot of campaigns at my old Uni and hoping to do the same at my new one, if you look around there are lots of grassroots movements out there like local anti-cuts groups and stuff 
