Oh, also, something just occurred to me: could there possibly be any health consequences for a child if the mother is transgender? (in terms of hormone treatment, I doubt hormones are completely harmless to a child.) Are there any studies on the subject yet?
I disagree that it is a mess or selfish - if they are a loving couple then I see nothing wrong with it. Heaps of things in life are confusing Jack it doesn't mean we have to avoid them. Some people will grow up with a parent in a wheelchair, different to other people's mummys or daddys. That could confuse a child just as easily, and yet doesn't face the same prejudice.
Many heterosexual relationships are a mess, but children are bought into those all the time and nobody thinks to question it.
What you say is vague and emotional thinking (doesn't make you a bad person lol).
I am a white male. Can I say tomorrow that I am not really white because I identify with blacks more? Should I force people to accept me as black?
I also like girls - but maybe I am just a black lesbian "trapped" inside a white male body.
This kind of of rearranging of reality along unrealistic lines is unsanity.
Kids are born with an intuitive understanding of what is right, and the job of a parent is to protect their innocence and allow their self-understanding to flourish. These people are doing exactly the opposite and will make kids perceptions conform to their identity dysphoria and that will do damage to kids growth to healthy adulthood (which is harder these days because normal has been made to see like a disorder and disorder made to seem normal - indeed better than normal - chic even)
A persons gender is decided by their sexual organs. A personal gender identity is decided by their personal identification. So, no, the woman carrying the child is not a 'pregnant man'.
But yeah, I'm all for it :) A loving home for a kid is never a bad thing.
It's actually the genes that determine the sex of a person physiologically and not the sex organs (which are determined by the genes). "Sex reassignment" surgery is a fallacy. if a guy gets his bits taken off and given hormones he isn't a woman - he a guy with his bits taken off and given hormones.
As I said above - if I as a white male want to declare I am really black and a woman not amount of PC happy talk will make it true
I just wanted to say a few things =]
Second, ****... I used to really respect and enjoy reading your input in threads. Now I just think you're a republican tool.
So you used to like my stuff and now you hate me because of a conjectured political affiliation? Now I suppose you consider yourself as against hate based on labels - but attitude does not conform to you ideals. The PC crowd are often composed of very judgmental and resentful people -complaining about judgmental and resentful - but they don't see the conflict because they feel so justified resenting what they see as the wring in others. On the whole though I know your not quite that way and would not dispense with my knowledge of you based on one post lol.
I would add I know the science on these things because I am a scholarly sort at heart and would prefer to have facts precede my adoption of political and social agendas. The links to abuse and gender dysphoria are quite clear even if they get ignored by media. Even the lives of people here attest to then. I would be disingenuous and something of a bad friend to ignore facts just to help someone preserve a dysphoric view of a situation (that can be remedied contrary to PC pressures to deny that)
Oh, also, something just occurred to me: could there possibly be any health consequences for a child if the mother is transgender? (in terms of hormone treatment, I doubt hormones are completely harmless to a child.) Are there any studies on the subject yet?
I don't think they would even care. There are doctors now giving hormones to children as young as 7 that block puberty so they "can decide" what sex they want to be latter. This is like Nazi doctor stuff
"Critics Slam Boston Doctor Who Offers Sex Change Treatment to Kids"
Dr. Norman Spack, a pediatric specialist at the hospital, has launched a clinic for transgendered kids — boys who feel like girls, girls who want to be boys — and he’s opening his doors to patients as young as 7.
Spack offers his younger patients counseling and drugs that delay the onset of puberty. The drugs stop the natural flood of hormones that would make it difficult to have a sex alteration later in life, allowing patients more time to decide whether they want to make the change.
As long as the parent giving birth isn't taking hormones that will mess with the baby's health, I couldn't care less who's having the baby. Kids need parents that love them and accept them as who they are, not a specific gender identity.
"In- in return?" Snape gaped at Dumbledore, and Harry expected him to protest, but after a long moment he said, "Anything."
I'm a crow chasing a butterfly.
I must become a lion-hearted girl, ready for a fight.
I don't think they would even care. There are doctors now giving hormones to children as young as 7 that block puberty so they "can decide" what sex they want to be latter. This is like Nazi doctor stuff
"Critics Slam Boston Doctor Who Offers Sex Change Treatment to Kids"
Dr. Norman Spack, a pediatric specialist at the hospital, has launched a clinic for transgendered kids boys who feel like girls, girls who want to be boys and hes opening his doors to patients as young as 7.
Spack offers his younger patients counseling and drugs that delay the onset of puberty. The drugs stop the natural flood of hormones that would make it difficult to have a sex alteration later in life, allowing patients more time to decide whether they want to make the change.
I actually approve of this. It's much simpler than having to reverse stuff later. And obviously they're not delaying everyone's puberty, it's just the gender dysphoric kids. And they know pretty early on that they're in the wrong body. I know it's about the height of controversy for someone as conventional as you are, but it's a fact of life.
And I also disagree with your statements like
Quote:
if I as a white male want to declare I am really black and a woman not amount of PC happy talk will make it true
, if you did have gender dysphoria, you wouldn't feel male, and therefore, it would be perfectly understandable for you to identify as a woman.
I'm just hoping you never have kids that are anything short of 'normal'...
Also, I know that theey give hormones to some children because they have an extremely early onset of puberty. I've never heartd of them giving hormones to delay puberty because of their preferred gender. That sound harmful mentally and physically.
"In- in return?" Snape gaped at Dumbledore, and Harry expected him to protest, but after a long moment he said, "Anything."
I'm a crow chasing a butterfly.
I must become a lion-hearted girl, ready for a fight.
I actually approve of this. It's much simpler than having to reverse stuff later. And obviously they're not delaying everyone's puberty, it's just the gender dysphoric kids. And they know pretty early on that they're in the wrong body. I know it's about the height of controversy for someone as conventional as you are, but it's a fact of life.
And I also disagree with your statements like , if you did have gender dysphoria, you wouldn't feel male, and therefore, it would be perfectly understandable for you to identify as a woman.
I'm just hoping you never have kids that are anything short of 'normal'...
That doesn't make any sense. A persons sense of identity can be displaced (as it often is be various forms of abuse, parental disorders and abnormalities but their body can't be wrong. If I am black but want to be white that doesn't mean my skin is wrong. It means I have issues with my normal skin color. That's disordered - nevermind unconventional. Its also bad medicine to give prepubescent kid hormones that retard their normal growth. Potential suicid is also an excuse since suicides are drastically down since the 80s and 90s.
Second, ****... I used to really respect and enjoy reading your input in threads. Now I just think you're a republican tool.
I think Isoverity's point was considered and insightful. You cant go around painting everyone with a republican brush because they disagree on some things.
Dont forget this is history in the making and i believe he was simply expressing concern for the child at the middle of all this.
I believe abortion laws should be made tougher so as to stop a few people who just didnt use protection having abortions (it kinda makes a mockery of what many women have to go through and the tough decisions they make when getting abortions) does that make me a gun totting, bible bashing, tea drinking republican?
When life gives you lemons, squirt them in his eye until you get a better gift
Children need love, and genuine loving parents. I'd rather see a child raised by a loving same sex couple than a man and a woman who don't really wish to be bothered by a child.
I wonder about transgender related stuff.... if we lived in a society that didn't specify 'gender' outside of anatomy (as in, men work, women cook, blue, pink, stronger, weaker and all that crap) would they still feel in the wrong body? If it was just sexual organs? I don't get that.
Gender can confuse things a lot. 'Sex' is defined by the biological organs, whereas gender is a more sociological and mental thing closely related to the sex, like girls being gendered into pinkness and boys into blueness. There's no real reason for it other than it being a sociological norm, I think. In the same way that women can go out and be the breadwinners with the male staying at home, but this is almost looked down upon with the male being seen as emasculated (in a gender sense).
Beautyfiend I share your feeling of disappointment at someone that I really respected holding such consistently discriminatory/in my view inaccurate views. I wouldn't go so far as to name call, but in the nicest way possible yes Jack, I don't know whether you will care or not, but you have somewhat lost my respect.
'Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.'
['There is only one thing we say to death. Not today'.']
'We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell. Oscar Wilde
Its hard to dance with the devil on your back. Sydney Carter
I wonder about transgender related stuff.... if we lived in a society that didn't specify 'gender' outside of anatomy (as in, men work, women cook, blue, pink, stronger, weaker and all that crap) would they still feel in the wrong body? If it was just sexual organs? I don't get that.
Very thin girls with anorexia can "feel" overweight when they aren't. There are people who "feel" like they want to take off a limb off (we have had them here). To me it used to "feel" natural to want to smoke. Just because people "feel" one way or another doesn't mean its natural just like anything else.
One way people can "feel" different from what they are at a very young age is a disturbance in imprinting. All people who raise animals in zoos etc know that if they want to domesticate a wild animal they have to take it from its mother as soon as possible and put it in another environment. Very often the an animal removed from its mother and placed with other animals will identify with the other animals. A baby monkey placed with ducks will think its a duck.
Below is a photo of a Nobel Prize winning zoologist, psychologist and ethnologist Konrad Lorenz. He raised two groups of geese. One group hatched with him - another group hatched with their mother. The geese that hatched with him bonded to him as if he was their mother. When those geese were placed with their actual mother they still reacted to Lorenz as their mother
Good video here:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UIU9XH-mUI&feature=related"]YouTube - Konrad Lorenz Experiment with Geese[/ame]
Gender can confuse things a lot. 'Sex' is defined by the biological organs, whereas gender is a more sociological and mental thing closely related to the sex, like girls being gendered into pinkness and boys into blueness. There's no real reason for it other than it being a sociological norm, I think. In the same way that women can go out and be the breadwinners with the male staying at home, but this is almost looked down upon with the male being seen as emasculated (in a gender sense).
Sex is not based on organs - its based on genes - organs are a result of the genes.
While things like pink vs blue are cultural. Basic sex identities are not. Women have more than twice as many hormones as men and have a nurturing nature - they are organically and inherently designed to have children and men are not . Consistent with bonding with young children is the fact women are more emotional than men. Being more emotional si what helps makes them vastly more prone to mood disorders, depression and many other things. Of course there are good things that go with that composition so I'm not being disparaging.
