Pro-Choice. Completely. Whatever your views on abortion, you cannot refuse a womans right to choose what is right for her and her baby.
Studies have shown that the number abortions performed in countries where abortion is legal compared with where it is illegal are not too disimilar, just that in countries where it is legal women are having safe abortions, not dying in back alleys having had coat hangers and what ever else stuck inside them.
I don't think abortions are too 'easy' to have. You have to go through 2 doctors to say that you are not fit/ready to have a child, then I'm sure they explain everything to you, I seriously doubt a significant number, or if any women have an abortion on a whim, or use it as form of contraception. After 10 weeks it's a pretty invasive procedure to go through, it is not an easy choice to make.
Yes, some women do regret it afterwards but most don't, most realise that it was the best thing they could have done at the time.
As Mistakenly Beautiful said, making the law completely Pro-Life is simply erasing all the good those women did fighting for our right to own our bodies. Whether you agree with abortion or not, it is in the best interests of everyone that the law remains pro-choice. Women die from botched, back alley abortions. For those that believe abortion is murder, why would you want to increase the head count?
Yeah for medical reasons it has been I'm pretty sure..
But now its legal to do it... just coz....
Now you don't need all the doctors consent or you don't need a medical reason...
Now you don't need all the doctors consent or you don't need a medical reason...
no medical reason i can get. but no doctor's consent? that can not be right, as in not correct. i don't know how "freely accessible" abortions are in america, but in england (as crumple said) you can not have an abortion without the reference of two doctors. & it seems quite strange/stupid that a woman could have one "up to full term" "without doctor's consent."
Well yes.. it is strange/stupid and lots think its not right..
It has been a major debate and hot topic over here with the bill going to parliament to get passed.. it ended up being so close though, if just a few more people were against it then it wouldn't have been made legal..
I still can't understand why people want it made legal at that time. Yeah ok, I can see where people come from with a women's choice, but to have a baby inside you, full on grow inside, be fully formed, feel it kick and be alive and then to suddenly decide you don't want it? So you can get an abortion.. hmm..
I dunno.. just my thoughts.. ill have to dig around later (more like tomorrow lol) for the actual thing hey.
But lets just say our government has some interesting people in there... hmmm....
I agree with a few posts back, depends on the circumstances. A result of a forced pregnancy, thats one thing... some girl that just got pregnant and "doesn't want to deal with it" is another. I suppose I'm pro-choice-limited. But sadly there's no way to draw a line of when it's "ok" or not.
For example... last year a friend of mine (she was 19 or 20) got pregnant, and she planned on keeping the baby. However something medically happened and she became seriously ill. They basically had to do an emergency abortion to save her life. The abortion was still in the time that she could have gotten one anyway even without the medical reason. (the laws might be different where I am in the US) ... If the medical issue hadn't come up I would have felt differently about her abortion.
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The same can be said from the pro-life side, of course (that they're anti-choice), but I think that "pro-death" (or "pro-abortion")
That's actually something that's being thrown around in the upcoming election over here. McCain uses the word "pro-abortion" when on the topic of abortions and democrats. I don't know anyone who's like "hey let me go get pregnant and go get an abortion!"... that's not a fun friday night activity, you know? Yay politics...
Mmmm.
This is probably one of the only topics i'm super passionate about.
So you may see me frequent this topic on a regular basis..on the other hand, you may not, as i end up getting heated in such debates.
(If this happens, it's not a personal dig at anyone, it's just from personal experience/knowledge that i end up getting worked up, but i shall try to keep level headed.)
I'm 200% pro-life.
In my eyes, there is no "special circumstance" for an abortion.
Even if the mother's life is at risk (though it may be seen more as delivery at a time when it's known the baby can't survive, rather than an "abortion")?
18.11 28.4 6.5 22.31
My heart just needs his smile, that i can't forget, like so melancholy a kiss.
In the past i've always been Pro-life.
However, nowadays, i'm neither pro-choice or pro-life.
I don't really agree with abortion and hate the thought of it, but, i do believe for a lot of people, it's really not easy for them, and for both mother and baby it's better to have the abortion then to actually have the baby.
Though, i do think abortion limit should be a lot lower.
It's so easy to get lost in constantly having to present
whatever face you believe a person wants to see rather than your own
I'm going to use multi quote instead of posting 8000 times, lol.
I'm going to preface this with the information that I am about 1000% pro-choice.
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Originally Posted by -Shae-Lynn*
I've volunteered in an NICU and have seen the effects of some bad choices by parents who did not want the child/did some stupid things while pregnant because they "didn't care".
I've also spent time in a NICU and OB/GYN ward when I was a student. It was utterly shocking some of the things women had done while pregnant and what others and their partners/families were putting themselves through only to have the baby or fetus in one case die anyway. They would have several doctors, from several different specalaties telling them the baby would not survive and that it was medically irresponsible to continue treatment, and it was like the doctors were talking to a brick wall.
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Originally Posted by Jetes
...However, from a personal standpoint, I believe that abortion is too freely available whilst good sex education is not.
I agree on this, there needs to be better sexual education available everywhere, not just to prevent abortions, but to prevent all the other issues that come with unwanted, or untimely pregnancies.
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Originally Posted by Stellata
I'm pro-life.
Part of my reasoning being that so many babies are now born premature and survive at or even before the abortion cut off limit. I myself was born at 30 weeks, not so long after the 'cut off point'.
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Originally Posted by BlindSpot.
Pro-choice. However, i think it should be lowered to 18-20weeks.
They may be surviving, but I don't think we are doing anyone any favors by trying to save premies born at 22 or 24 weeks.
What is especially scary about this is that science and medicine are now able to study the long term repercussions of what happens to these extreme premies when they become adults. They are finding that many of these people have extensive medical problems that stem from the underdevelpment of their organs, and the affects of the treatment they are given to keep them alive.
One example are the kidneys. They filter the blood and remove wastes and toxins, they also produce important hormones that regulate red blood cell production and keep bones healthy. The parts of the kidney that do a lot of this don't fully develp until 36 or 37 weeks. If a baby is born at 32 weeks, they only have about 1/2 of the total bits they need developed. Then they are given antibiotics in the NICU to prevent infection. However, a very large number of antibiotics kill off the filtering parts of the kidneys.
Over time, people's kidneys naturally lose some of their filtering ability, but these premies don't have a lot to loose. They get to be adults and they have high blood pressure, weak bones, an overactive parathyroid, and anemia becuase their kidneys don't work properly, and some may even end up with total kidney failure.
The point of what i've said is that I don't think the cut off should be lowered because 1 baby delivered at 22 weeks has survived, that is an extreme rarity, and not the norm.
The amount of development that happens between 24 weeks and 30 is HUGE. Survival rates rise literally exponentially with just those 6 weeks of development. I don't think it's accurate to compare 30 weeks to 24 weeks because of these differences.
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Originally Posted by Heidi Tiger
I also think early abortions (the pill ones) are infinitely preferable to the later ones, as at that point it really is just a bunch of cells that is being removed.
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Originally Posted by Queen Crabbit
The morning after pill only stops the sperm and the egg meeting, it doesn't abort a foetus/zygote.
Chels, I think Heidi was talking about RU-486, which is a pill that a woman can take in the first 2 months of pregnancy that will terminate the pregnancy.
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Originally Posted by Heidi Tiger
I'd also like to ask those who are pro-life, wat is your views on the morning after pill? According to the Catholic Church it actually is a form of abortion. ....Are you also anti-contraception?, because according to the church that too is a form of abortion as conception is avoided.
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Originally Posted by mesmerized.
Actually, no one (not even th Church!) says that contraception is a form of abortion, because that quite simply isn't true by definition. The Church does say it's wrong, yes, but not because it's abortion, which it isn't, so it's not entirely part of the same debate. One could quite easily say that it's permissible to prevent conception from happening but once it has it's wrong to destroy a life that's already been created and thus has an inalienable right to life.
Heidi has it right, at least as far as the US Catholic Church is concerned. They firmly believe that doing ANYTHING that prevents sperm from meeting egg is abortion, because it is preventing a pregnancy. There are even religious pharmacies in the US that follow the Catholic doctrine, and they refuse to sell any form of contraception period, from condoms, to the birth control pill.
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Originally Posted by Ratatouille strychnine
The OED defines murder as 1. a. The deliberate and unlawful killing of a human being, esp. in a premeditated manner; (Law) criminal homicide with malice aforethought (occas. more fully willful murder).
Therefore, the idea of abortion being murder seems to rest on the idea that you are killing a human being. Now as murder is a legal term, for it to be murder, the person killed must also be legally classed as a human being. If this was the case, why are pregnant women not classed as two people on censuses? As a society, we don't consider it to be a human being. When someone has a miscarriage, we don't hold a funeral. When someone is pregnant, they'll say "we have two children and one on the way" rather than "we have three children".
Where do you consider a foetus becomes a human being? If it is at the point of conception, then there are 6 or 7 days before the fertilized egg reaches the uterus and pregnancy begins and 80% of a woman's fertilized eggs don't make it. They are simply flushed out in the period. If you consider life to start at conception then pretty much anyone woman who has had unprotected sex and more than two or three periods is a mass murderer.
A foetus is simply a parasite. It is an entity separate to that of the mother that solely exploits the mother's body in order to survive and grow. A mother may love the thing growing inside her as she knows it will turn into a child that she will love and nurture. However, if that love isn't there and the pregnancy is unwanted, then what is the difference between the foetus and any other parasite. We would happily remove a tapeworm if it was making us ill and we didn't want it. A woman should have every right to decide what lives inside her body and exploits her body.
Thank you Rob, this is pretty much exactaly in line with what I have learned, and how I look at it.
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Originally Posted by linder surprise
no medical reason i can get. but no doctor's consent? that can not be right, as in not correct. i don't know how "freely accessible" abortions are in america, but in england (as crumple said) you can not have an abortion without the reference of two doctors. & it seems quite strange/stupid that a woman could have one "up to full term" "without doctor's consent."
In the US it varies by state. Some have requirements about what you must do to get an abortion. So it varies from being required to see 2 doctors and reciving a counseling session on alternative options to no requirements at all.
Rob has pretty much posted what I came here to say, and I'm not going to repeat him.
I firmly believe that no matter what a persons personal believes about abortion are that it shouldn't be denied as an option to other women. Unless the pro-life people who are against abortion want to support women who would have otherwise had an abortion through their pregnancies, and then rise the child themselves I don't think they should be able to keep other women from having an abortion.
Last edited by Aidee : 24-10-2008 at 02:08 AM.
Reason: Cause I have no idea why I quoted Jo.....
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
Despite what I've been through and still go through at times, I'm still glad I survived.
I had a 50:50 chance of survival. And I chose to survive.
Even at that age.
I am intelligent. I have my limitations.
But I am very much alive, and in physical good health.
True all my family have mental health difficulties.
I just feel uncomfortable with the sense I'm getting here that I 'should not be alive'.
It's like those Tommy's half baked gingerbread men supposedly representing premature babies.
It upsets me.
Tommy's half baked gingerbread men? huh? Are you referring to the children's story?
My point is nothing personal, it has to do with the idea that the abortion age limit should be lowered because fetus' have survived birth at a very young age. However, these examples are not the norm, they are the extreme. Science is now showing that these preemies are dying earlier than other adults because of the affects of their birth and the treatment they were given after being delivered.
Many hospitals in the US have limits on how early they will resuscitate a fetus born before a certain number of weeks. I've seen limits varying between 22 and 26 weeks.
If the chances of the fetus surviving are so low that hospitals won't even take them on as patients, I don't see how they can be considered "viable" and therefore not candidates for abortion.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
No, the adverts. Tommy's is a UK baby charity.
They used to have adverts posters with half baked gingerbread men representing premature babies.
Like we're only half-people.
Ahhhh, Ok, that makes soooooooo much more sense! I couldn't figure out what a children's story had to do with premature babies.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
