Would it be at all be possible to implement an "Anything Goes" chat?
Obviously with the Anything Goes chat you would keep some basic ground rules to keep it civil, but beyond that allow for discussion which may or may not be suitable for minors (believe it or not, minors deal with a lot of 'adult' situations, even if they aren't 'allowed' to talk about them) or people who are easily offended.
Rules you'd keep: Please do not encourage self-harm in any way
Please do not share any information on methods to self-harm or any tips, including the best ways/places to self-harm.
Please do not make suicide threats or 'goodbye notes'.
Please do not make any comments that involve any level of discrimination, racism or sexism;
Please do not share any images or videos that go against any of the terms and conditions of posting.
Please do not 'flame' any other RYL member publicly, and keep all arguments and criticism to private messaging (PM), if at all.
Please do not spam
Basically rules which are more civil orientated than content based; while keeping in mind the vulnerable nature of members when it comes to triggering aspects.
Occasionally, I and others have things to discuss which currently bother us and are not allowed to discuss them, even in Completely Serious, when indeed the subjects are completely serious to us. What makes one topic of discussion more worthy when it comes to venting than another? Not to mention not everyone here is 13, occasionally we'd like to discuss adult situations without possible repercussions. I think the lack of a chat of this nature is a detriment, and if at all possible should be seriously considered.
Last edited by Dreamofunity : 04-03-2009 at 08:44 PM.
Reason: Removed the 18+ Adult suggestion, considering it was being misinterpeted from my original intention
i feel kind of stupid saying this, but i notice that the "rules that stay" thing doesn't include "no cybering".... is that just a given?
lol yeah
I personally don't care if people cyber and I don't expect people to do it in public, but I think it would be legitimate to put that in the rules too. I understand the liability RYL may feel for situations like that. I mainly left that rule out for the sexual content comment found within the rest of the it, I didn't feel like doing any actual rule editing at this point. I think if someone wants to talk about something sexual in nature it should be allowed. I'm willing to bet people on this site have sex; some probably have concerns about it, some may have comments, questions, etc, and the broadness of that rule, simply stating that something "graphic" is not allowed, is far too vague and subjective. The same goes for the rule about encouraging illegal activity (drug use, etc), for some people drugs are a serious situation they may be going through yet don't feel they're able to talk about openly based on that rule. Swearing is an issue too. I wouldn't care if it were blocked on the Anything Goes chat (personally I wouldn't block it, but I understand reasoning for) but I still see complaints about people using too many ---'s while others feel the need to use expletives at times. This is something I think could be more accepted within an Anything Goes Chat, and that people who don't want to see them can avoid it by not going to that part of chat.
I don't mean to propose a chat so that people can cyber and talk about how awesome some drug is, I simply want to suggest a chat where people don't feel like they have to watch what they say (besides the obvious concern for triggering and flaming potential). A place where people can freely discuss what they please without the potential of repercussions for geniune communication. A place where friends within a community can discuss whatever comes to their minds and yet have it be exclusive enough (an 18+ warning, or a general clause stating the absense of rules on content) that if people don't feel comfortable there they can go to another room, or if discussion within Completely Serious or General gets too mature people can request for them to go to a room with people willing to hear it. I think it solves a lot of the problems people feel are present within the site, whether it's those complaining of a topic being discussed they disapprove of, or those complaining that they feel the rules to be too restrictive.
The poll was simply to see if I'm alone in wanting a chat of this nature and to see if it would be possible to implement on a site like this. A fairly laidback chat has a strong precedent on this site and is something I think should be considered again. This is a great community of open minded people with a lot to share, I just think some of the limitations set upon it are too childish. I understand the reasoning for these given the growth of this site, but think it could be better dealt with by a seperation instead of a ban on the range of topics. Allow those who want to avoid certain topics or attributes of an open chat to have their place, and those who want to be allowed to discuss more mature topics in a free fashion to do so in their own section of chat. I like the function of chat on this site, and I like the range of people it brings to discuss things with, but I don't like the limitations on discussion. I've been told to find a new chat if I want to discuss certain things, and with this post I'm trying to find out if I have to and if that is the solution for me and others who feel the same as I do, or if we can maybe implement a more sensible system that accounts for both groups needs.
I'd rather not have to find a new chat with my same friends to discuss things we all want to discuss when we have this one, the only problem being those who don't want to see it; something that could be solved by this measure.
Any thoughts, ideas, complaints, concerns, advice or suggestions about this or anything else that may improve the situation at hand, I'd love to hear. I also wish that decision makers keep in mind, given who this topic is from, that I submit these suggestion for the general good of the community and not for any devious reasons. Thanks.
Last edited by Dreamofunity : 03-03-2009 at 07:42 AM.
HOw would it work? Wouldn't people under 18 go in there?
It would be content related, not age restricted. Like how the Adult warning is on posts, yet anyone is still allowed to view those. I actually like the idea of an "Anything Goes" chat better, but I realize some may view those words as allowing vulgar or pro-SI topics, which is not what I'm proposing and why I added the "Adult 18+" part (either/or is desirable in my opinion). Anything Goes, meaning no real limitation (beyond civil rulings) on discussion and allowing people to not feel like they have to watch what they say; to allow mature open discussion and yet still keep children or people who are easily offended safe by not having those discussed within the main area of chat. I think it is the best solution for the polar oppositions that are sometimes brought up in this forum about rules on content of discussion. I've also suggested an anything goes forum in other posts, but feel as though chat would be easier to control given that it already is mostly unmoderated - that's not to say that mods don't do their job or aren't around enough, just that they are more there for controlling out of hand situations and not for content control, which I greatly respect moderators for doing.
Last edited by Dreamofunity : 03-03-2009 at 07:47 AM.
I'm struggling to see the niche this is trying to fill?
To pick up on three points -
Quote:
minors deal with a lot of 'adult' situations, even if they aren't 'allowed' to talk about them
Who said that they aren't allowed to talk about them, or do you mean they aren't allowed to talk about them in school or something?
Quote:
for some people drugs are a serious situation they may be going through yet don't feel they're able to talk about openly based on that rule
People can discuss drugs, they can discuss any sorts of self-harm. What we don't want for self-harm, or drugs, is people to start saying "Yeah, try this, it's awesome, works better than x" - but, if somebody comes in and says "I'm really struggling, I'm trying to detox, but I can't seem to keep myself clean", then I'd hope that people would try to support them.
Quote:
This is a great community of open minded people with a lot to share, I just think some of the limitations set upon it are too childish
Could you expand on this a little more? What sorts of rules do you think are childish?
Anyway, I'm not really convinced about this. I think people may flock there instead of support chat, leaving people who do want support with no choice but to go to this 'anything goes' place.
It seems very similar to *Please read* Creation of a 'free zone', with very familiar issues.
I personally think that although a nice idea it would never work practically. If a member wanted some support to do with their sex life or their drug addiction, that is totally fine to discuss in chat. The rules only mean to exclude sexually 'graphic' material, ie. things bordering on cybering and detailed explanations about sex with no intent to recieve or give support. And with the drugs, the rules are only about encouraging drug use or glamourising drugs which could be detrimental to another member having drug problems. I know it may be unclear but those topics are absolutely fine to discuss as long as they stay within the rules.
There has been a vets chat made before I do believe and it just fell apart because chat members prefered to mix with the majority of regular chatters than sit in the vets room. As for an anything goes room... it would be INCREDIBLY difficult to implicate. Especially as the room would have to have some rules in the first place. Even I as a mod would be confused which rules went and which rules didn't when everywhere else on the entire site followed the same rules. Chat would be far far far more difficult to monitor than forums. Posts and threads stay in one place so can be dealt with after an incident where rules were overstepped, in chat it would require almost constant monitoring which is just not possible.
If you feel that chat is already undermodded, then bringing in this room where some rules could be broken would surely make things 10 times worse in chat? I would definitely be concerned with our younger members too. And 'adult' room would not stop younger members venturing into what may be quite a disturbing conversation. RYL is not a completely secure safety bubble. I would suggest that if you did want to talk about something adult and it wasn't to do with support, you could ask to PM someone about it or if you are good friends with some chat members, ask to talk to them on msn or else where. I just can't see that RYL will be a suitable place for these conversations that don't revolve around support/recovery.
Sophie.x
Soon... Now will be then...Today will be yesterday... Present will be past...And thought will be memory... So...Live for the future! Make your future how you want it!
Ive spoken about drugs before (in a support wanting way) and ive never been told its something i cant talk about.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
I agree with Sophie (feel_the_release). This is mainly a support site. There is no gap or real need for a room for just 18+ conversations - a self-injury support site would not be expected to cater for that. There's other places for it.
There's the Vets boards if you need to ask a question or discuss something more adult-related. There's also nothing stopping people throwing a question out in Chat if they need to, or they can move to another room if they wanna discuss something sensitive with just another member or two. Although I can see the reasoning behind it, I'm a bit. Mm.
Quote:
Allow those who want to avoid certain topics or attributes of an open chat to have their place, and those who want to be allowed to discuss more mature topics in a free fashion to do so in their own section of chat.
What happened to community? :/
Quote:
I've been told to find a new chat if I want to discuss certain things
I can only guess that if you're being told that, then things that were being discussed either broke the rules or weren't appropiate for what this site is.
No offence, but I just don't really see how this would work?
And what about teenagers and young people such as myself who may have a valid issue of an adult nature (relating to sex, relationships that are to do with why we're on the site) but not *old enough* to use that room?
I'm struggling to see the niche this is trying to fill?
To pick up on three points -
Who said that they aren't allowed to talk about them, or do you mean they aren't allowed to talk about them in school or something?
People can discuss drugs, they can discuss any sorts of self-harm. What we don't want for self-harm, or drugs, is people to start saying "Yeah, try this, it's awesome, works better than x" - but, if somebody comes in and says "I'm really struggling, I'm trying to detox, but I can't seem to keep myself clean", then I'd hope that people would try to support them.
Could you expand on this a little more? What sorts of rules do you think are childish?
Anyway, I'm not really convinced about this. I think people may flock there instead of support chat, leaving people who do want support with no choice but to go to this 'anything goes' place.
It seems very similar to *Please read* Creation of a 'free zone', with very familiar issues.
That's just my 2p.
The minor thing was more in reference to making it 18+ oppose to Anything Goes, meaning I don't propose an actual age restriction, simply content allowed. I think minors can and should be allowed to discuss whatever they please, and deal with a lot more 'adult' or mature situations than people realize, this proposal would more protect those who are sensitive to these types of discussions than to protect minors. Although, considering I got yelled at (internetly speaking) for talking about something sexual (and not specifically graphic, although I guess that is subjective) because children may be around, as well as someone who felt uncomfortable talking about a recent drug OD because they felt it was against the rules; these are things I think could be worked out better with the seperation.
I think it's fairly childish to limit discussion in any way, beyond the obvious rule of being civil and respectful towards others. The best way I could put it is probably that within the General chat, you have to be wary of what you say as if it's like you're having a discussion in front of children. In Completely Serious, it would be like having a discussion with your parents, a little more mature although still holding back true feelings. What I'm proposing is to allow conversations as if you were in front of your best friends over a round of beers, where anything and everything can come up and is welcomed.
While I brought up points of support that may be too graphic for some, I mainly think this chat would be used more as a more laidback General chat for 'adults.' Support wouldn't be discouraged, but it would more or less be a room to just hang around with and discuss anything. I don't mean to propose it as a room for when something gets heavy in another room to take it to Anything Goes; anything can be discussed within the Anything Goes chat to where it's basically a general chat but if something more mature wants to be discussed you don't have to make sure everyone in it approves - and if it ever gets to a topic someone doesn't like they have the option to leave.
I feel as though people here are generally courteous enough that if someone came in asking for support they'd help them even if that meant switching rooms. Not to mention, as with the post results, while some may support it they might not use it. Not everyone likes to discuss anything and everything under the sun, and are content with a more safe atmosphere, or like the area with a more supportive atmosphere. Honestly, I think your last concern is no different than having a general discussion chat along with completely serious.
I also understand where most of the stuff I brought up you said could be discussed; and I wouldn't completely disagree considering I have, and probably will continue to, talk about most anything. I just don't always feel safe saying it because of people who might be around and don't like what I have to say. I think it would be easier to seperate the content so that people never have to ask for something not to be discussed again (obviously it would be considered if someone asked for a topic change in Anything Goes if they felt triggered). I don't want a chat where you are allowed to say certain things, I want a chat where you're allowed to say anything. My examples were just recently come across events where people did feel censored, or violated (both solved imo) and given more for the support appeal which is serious v.s. the general discussion appeal of having it just like a more mature and laidback general chat.
I have to go to class, but I'll answer the rest later, and anyone else can feel free to throw their ideas of how it would work or what they would want into the mix.
I agree with Sophie (feel_the_release). This is mainly a support site. There is no gap or real need for a room for just 18+ conversations - a self-injury support site would not be expected to cater for that. There's other places for it.
There's the Vets boards if you need to ask a question or discuss something more adult-related. There's also nothing stopping people throwing a question out in Chat if they need to, or they can move to another room if they wanna discuss something sensitive with just another member or two. Although I can see the reasoning behind it, I'm a bit. Mm.
What happened to community? :/
I can only guess that if you're being told that, then things that were being discussed either broke the rules or weren't appropiate for what this site is.
No offence, but I just don't really see how this would work?
And what about teenagers and young people such as myself who may have a valid issue of an adult nature (relating to sex, relationships that are to do with why we're on the site) but not *old enough* to use that room?
I don't want a place where things must be discussed, just where they aren't discouraged.
I think you contradict yourself by claiming it's solely a support site, and then complain my proposal goes against community. What's the point of General Chat if this is mainly a support site? I mainly use this place for community considering I've been here on and off for close to 5 years, I enjoy the people, and would like to have an actual community of open discussion instead of just a support site; with the obvious and already useful Completely Serious for those needed support. I like the aspect of instant chat with people I know, I have a forum I use for other topics not approved of here already, although I understand your Veterans Forum suggestion.
Rules were technically being broken, but also content is accepted by many of the common users of chat, which is why I don't agree with the rules and am attempted to allow a place with less instead of openly breaking them disrespecting those who wish to not be exposed to such discussion. The debate on too strict or too lenient rules is held here a lot. There are a lot of people on both sides, which is why I think it would be best to give both groups a solution and their own section of chat - which I think fits well within a community given they can be used by anything depening on how one is feeling.
I realize these things may not be seen within the primary roles of this site, but I enjoy the people I've met and grew up with and want something more with them within this community. I'm seeing if it as all possible, or if I should try to find another place.
I don't believe it should be age restricted, you can't be not old enough, more like the "Adult" warnings on posts.
I'm finding it difficult to understand what you're really wanting? All the things you've described so far seem to be fine in the general rooms in chat. General rooms are great distractions or just chatting with some friends about anything random... this is what you said.... I think... from reading your posts. You can strike up a mature conversation, a contraversial one or a serious one. I remember not long ago having a very interesting and insightful conversation in general chat about obese children and their parents etc. If an interesting topic is brought up, no doubt there will be some people who would like to engage. And as long as the conversation isn't cybering or breaking the rules, more or less any topic should be able to be discussed as a comunity. I personally like how the rooms are less specifically separate and instead graduate from general to serious. It means there is less opportunity for people to 'claim a room' or favour one room over the other rooms. It means the community mixes up a lot more and people can really chose to talk to those they are familiar with or talk with new people. I'm just not sure how another room would make any new opportunities in chat that we don't already have. Sorry maybe I'm slow at catching on.
Sophie.x
Soon... Now will be then...Today will be yesterday... Present will be past...And thought will be memory... So...Live for the future! Make your future how you want it!
No, I think you're fairly accurate in you description, I just seem to notice a more or less protective nature found within General Chat. Like I stated above, it's almost as if you're having a discussion with children as far limitations go. You can't bring up certain topics, so even if they come up and they often do and are fairly liberally discussed, some feel offend and then discussion stops. I think I should have left out the 18+ Adult suggestion and left it at Anything Goes - I don't mean to suggest a "Sex, Drugs and Expletives" chat for the sole purpose of mature discussion, just a chat where people don't feel as though they have to watch what they say, beyond common courtesy.
For the most part general chat offers up what I propose, but it has it's flaws for when people are offended or limited. I think this would be a solution for both arguements.
Last edited by Dreamofunity : 03-03-2009 at 05:36 PM.
I feel that if we had such a chat room all the adult members would go in there and the younger innocents who need support but don't want to talk about sex wouldn't be able to get it because everyone who can give support was in the adult chat. I am against this because I don't believe that their is a need for such a chat room. It would only encourage people to discuss things that are against what the purpose of this site is. An adult themed chat would be completely detrimental to RYL. If the majority of the site decided that their should be an adult chat then the names and purposes of the other chats should be changed so that people wouldn't only go into the adult room because they felt that they can only speak freely there.
