Firstly, this is a good healthy discussion topic, open for debate and varying opinions, but it must stay civil or it will not remain opened.
Now, with that over, onto the topic - the naming of tools, as the title clearly states!
As many of you will know, currently naming tools such as a razorblade or knife is permitted, and will not be removed. However, if someone was to mention a more inventive tool, so to speak, or something that is not typically linked to hurting yourself with, it would be removed as the tipsharing potential is huge and currently considered moreso than things such as a knife.
Now, what I'm wondering is do you think this is right?
Do you think that the mentioning of a knife, for example, is appropriate and good for the general pro-recovery nature of the site? Do you believe that the site would be a less triggering and better place without the mentioning of any tools, no matter what they are? Do you think that the mentioning of tools perhaps promotes self-harm?
I want your opinions on that sort of thing, and everything linked into this issue. Knock yourselves out.
Once more, though, please keep this sensible and civil. Save my poor head.
Thanks, guys. x
As a side note, I'd just like to point out that none of this contains my opinion. It's a series of questions, because I want your thoughts and opinions.
Last edited by Puppet Strings : 02-11-2008 at 11:13 PM.
Without being critical of the mods, I recieved points for mentioning something I would have thought pretty commonly used for creating wounds. And was a bit confused as to why this tool wasn't allowed where razor and knives are.
So then part of me is saying you're allowed to mention them all or none at all. And I really can't see people being allowed to mention everything! But then I'm strongly against cotton-wooling people. And banning all mention of tools seems a bit over protective. And also a bit insulting, I mean you'd have to be a bit dim to not work out some things to harm yourself with.
So I don't know, I guess the current rules are a happy medium.
I think that "inventive" tools shouldn't be mentioned, because yeah, there is an enormous potential for tip-sharing there, but I don't see why mentioning razors and knives should be banned? First of all, I'd imagine razors are probably the most common tool used for self-harm, and as for not mentioning knives or other "common" tools... whats the point of that? Anyone with half a brain can see that sharp objects like knives can be used for self-harm.
for some reason, i always thought that all names of tools were banned and since they arn't i personally think that it would be best if they were all banned. that's just me though. i mean, it can get repetitive saying "tools this and tools that" and all...but it can also be less triggering that way.
Is there any need to mention what was used? Surely you can say the effect or aim without needing to say what was used to get rid of it? I also think maybe it's a bit unfair to to say some things can be mentioned while others can't because then that's where people are likely to break the rules.
I'll come back to this later, I'm not in a writing much mood at the moment. (:
I think it really depends on the context that it has been wrote in, i have read things before in the past on this site that have mentioned something like a blade that i could see giving members other ideas.
I do think that there should be a restriction of the type of tools mentioned but what could be a common way of someone hurting themselves for one person could be completely new to someone else.
At the moment i quite like the way rules are, if i do see something that could be seen as tip sharing then i will report it.
I dont think it would be right to ban them completely from the site. I think if they were banned it would make people uncomfortable posting and very restricting.
Sorry my brain isnt funtioning tonight to write something decent
I think the more "usual" tools such as razors and knives should be allowed to be named. Otherwise it seems that we're getting more and more wrapped up in regulations to keep us safe than actually being able to say why we're here on RYL. We all self harm. We're all intelligent enough to figure out that sharp objects are a way to hurt ourselves. I'm all for allowing us to state what tool we used at all times, especially in first aid posts where it might be helpful to know what someone's used, but I can see the potential for tip-sharing, so it's not a viable option.
Anyway, after that long and pointless opinion, I think we should leave things as they are now, and not censor things any further.
For those doubts that swirl all around us
For those lives that tear at the seams
We know… we’re not what we’ve seen
For this dance we’ll move with each other
There ain’t no other step than one foot
Right in front of the other
I think there has to be a point at which users have to take responsibility for not triggering themselves. 'Blade' or 'knife' aren't necessarily tip-sharing but they're triggering, and no less so than any other less conventional way of self harming. Yes, the site is recovery-based and thus posting methods of doing so can be seen as undermining the use of the website, but surely the RYL is a sanctuary where people sharing common problems can talk open and freely? Obviously pro-self harm talk isn't great, but mentioning a 'tool' in passing shouldn't be a crime, as long as it's in context? For example, threads like "Omg [x] is really good for cutting" is blatant tip sharing, but sometimes posts containing containing 'tools' don't actually do that much damage, as long as the context used isn't encouragement. I do think mentioning unconventional tools should be discouraged, but at the end of the day it's up to the individual user what they read and whether they disregard trigger labels.
Bit rambly but yeah, I'm jet-lagged.
AMY.
You're not as messed up as you think you are,
Your self-absorption makes you messier.
Just settle down and you could feel a whole lot better,
Deep down, you're just like everybody else.
I think its safe to assume that everyone on this site knows exactly what they could or would use if they intended to self-harm, and its also safe to assume that they've used that object to self-harm in the past. It seems like every week theres a new restriction on what we can or can't say, and not being allowed to mention tools would just be another step towards cotton-wooling us and making us feel restricted. And I'm pretty sure that there are some (and probably many) people here who would leave RYL if they felt too restricted here, which could obviously lead to worse problems for them in the future. It seems to me that pretty soon the word "cutting" will be banned for being "tip-sharing", and it'll go on like that until all we can say is "I did something I shouldn't have done" and what kind of support site won't let you actually get things off your chest?
I'm sorry for ranting, but to be honest, I don't like how censored RYL is becoming lately... obviously some restrictions are okay, I mean, I agree with the new ED rules (even if I'm totally against extending them to the journals and even RnV), but censoring the SI forum is another step in the wrong direction, and in my opinion, a step too far.
What so if someone mentions broken glass etc. it's against the rules?
I never knew that, I think it's laughable. Most people have a good idea of what can be used to cut or scratch and mentioning ANYTHING that was used in which to do so in my opinion isn't going against the fact that RYL is pro recovery as surely they used it in a post asking for help.
If my username was changed to paperclip would that be unnallowed too?! [lol]
I think the sanctioning should be pulled back a step as it is.
It's up to the individual to know whether they are up to reading threads about people in distress who have hurt themselves or have urges to hurt themselves.
Personally i dont see the need to mention the tool/s that you have used. Here is an example "i got up today and i really felt like plunging a knife straight through my stomach" I think in some ways it promotes self harm and i dont agree with the names of tools being mentioned. I dont see anything positive about talking about plunging knifes into your body or cutting with razors. I think its unacceptable and i also think its extremly triggering.
I just dont think you need to talk about tools you have used to harm yourself, there are plenty of ways you can talk about it without using the actual names. You could say "i got up today, i feel so triggered i wanna cut so much" I think that is a much better way of talking about how you feel, its more positive and it sounds and looks much more positive. By saying i wanna grab hold of my razor and cut so much, it sounds really negative, unhealthy, triggering and not to mention extemly graphic.
I'd just like to state that this thread doesn't mean that we're planning on implementing additions to the rules at the moment, but if the general concensus is that we'd be better off without mentioning tools, then we can start moving things in that direction.
I dont think its absurd at all. So its ok to mention knives and razors but not other tools? Other tools being ones that are maybe not so well known. Just because something is well known like knives doesnt mean someone isnt going to think of that item or use that item. There is nothing wrong with saying you want to kill yourself, obviously its not good, but saying i want to kill myself and then mentioning the method your going to use to kill yourself is unnacceptable. Thats what im getting at with the tools, plunging a knife in your chest and then saying you want to kill yourself and then the method are both unnacceptable. There are lots of ways to talk about your problems without mentioning the tools you have or are going to use.
TBH because of RYL's rules I already use two forums, probably mostly due to the fact that I "creatively self harm" as my psychiatrist puts it. And if the rules got much stricter, well I think I'd stop using RYL for support at all and just use it to keep in touch with the people I know from here.
True. But there are "common" tools that people would think of before others. And suppose someone didn't have access to a razor or a knife (like if their family were keeping such objects away from them to keep them safe) but they really wanted to cut? What if they came on RYL and read a post saying "I just cut my wrists with a bar of soap" (I seriously doubt it can be done, I'm just using it as an example of a very inventive and uncommon tool)? I think they'd be inspired to try cutting with a bar of soap.:P
Basically I think uncommon tools should be censored, but not common ones like knives and razors.
True. But there are "common" tools that people would think of before others. And suppose someone didn't have access to a razor or a knife (like if their family were keeping such objects away from them to keep them safe) but they really wanted to cut? What if they came on RYL and read a post saying "I just cut my wrists with a bar of soap" (I seriously doubt it can be done, I'm just using it as an example of a very inventive and uncommon tool)? I think they'd be inspired to try cutting with a bar of soap.:P
Basically I think uncommon tools should be censored, but not common ones like knives and razors.
No I understand that, I realise my methods are the exception rather than the norm. What I was trying to point out was that if the rules already constrain my ability to ask for support here, tightening them to allow no tools to be mentioned would probably mean a far greater number of people couldn't get support for some of the issues they were having.
I just saw a thread in Serious Discussion i wont mention the name or anything but it was about self harm and suicide and the thread did not contain one mention of any tool/s. Personally and i dont mean this to sound rude but to say that by not allowing knives and razors to be mentioned that people wouldnt be able to get support is over the top.
Think you need to look at content thats the problem
Don't walk behine me I might got you lost!
Don't walk in front of me I may not follow you!
Don't walk beside me the path is to small!
All we can do is walk our own paths,remember your not alone because we are all walking our own paths together!
I just saw a thread in Serious Discussion i wont mention the name or anything but it was about self harm and suicide and the thread did not contain one mention of any tool/s. Personally and i dont mean this to sound rude but to say that by not allowing knives and razors to be mentioned that people wouldnt be able to get support is over the top.
But you seem to be forgetting that this is after all a self harm support site. Not just a mental illness support site. If people can't get support for their self harming behaviours then the whole definition of what RYL is needs to be redefined.
