I'm aware I'm slightly sensitive, but I know for a fact I'm not the only person to have noticed this.
What's happened to assuming best intentions, not making judgements and just supporting people? I'm seeing far too many threads where people are making sarcy or bitchy comments to suggest that people are stupid, lying, not helping themselves etc. Fair enough we don't all agree and maybe some people do lie... But it seems a lot of people have forgotten these forums are for support. No one is here to cure us, no one is a professional. But some people seem to think they are.
There are people here at every stage of their illnesses, and people seem to be forgetting that hindsight is a wonderful thing. Sometimes you just can't stop other people making mistakes, just because you know something was unwise for you. What would you have thought back then?
I don't know. I just have a bad feeling around here at the moment, it's a shame because we should be here for each other, to support. I just felt I had to say something because it's been building for a while and I don't think it's fair.
I'm not saying this is any kind of excuse for cruel behaviour, but i feel in general there's a difference between meanness and people just having their own personal ways of replying/supporting. Sometimes i get scared to reply to people because i get worried i will be accused of having a certain attitude when that's not the case - that's just my reply style. If people were to be specific about the kind of reply they want (if they have a preference or find certain things useful) then i will try hard to be mindful of that in my reply or just avoid replying.
Has it always been like this? I think so. There are a lot of individual personalities here.
However if something's flame-y it should always be reported.
Whilst I dont think there is anything wrong with a bit of tough love sometimes I do think there is a line that a lot of people seem to be crossing at the moment.
I understand that people get frustrated when people dont seem to take the advice or dont respond in the way the poster thinks is right but I think people do need to remember that there are members who are extremely fragile and who perhaps dont need that tough love approach. Although it might seem to you (Universal you) that the person needs a virtual shaking/pretty harsh commentary thats not what everyone needs.
Its a hard balance and there are members who are very capable of providing advice that is both thoughtful and for lack of a better word 'nice' but still able to give advice that is accurate and helpful.
There is a line between 'oh hugs/i know how you feel but have no advice' and 'why wont you do the logical/sensible thing.You're being irritating' and so on.
I definitely agree with hindsight too, if youre further forward in your recovery or recovered it can be really difficult to remember what it was like to be at the same place that person is in and not everyone works in the same way.
Its distressing to read that when someone asks people to stop responding in a certain way they carry on doing it, its pretty nasty to watch to be honest.I very much think that a lot of it has to do with the amount of people at the beginning of recovery compared to those who have recovered completely. RYL used to have far less people in stable recovery and it does mean that those kind of frustrated replies happen more often.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
^^ what do you hope to achieve?? You won't change people. You won't fix people. It's not support. What's the point? Just to entertain you? Just seems closer to bulling to me.
Sorry, i didn't mean to sound defensive. It just feels hard sometimes when you feel like you trying your best to help. None of my post was about you nymphette. I think you have a point liv that it's easy to dissociate from what it was like to be in that sort of position.
Wow. But you would still push into their thread where they've asked for support and keep pushing? You didn't answer my question as to why. I can only imagine it is for your own entertainment. Like a bully.
What you see as support is not what I see as support clearly. Very few members agree about what support is. Tough love works for some and I'm sure 'hugs babe, sorry you're hurting xoxox' works for somebody
But there is a middle ground somewhere between the two.
On a side note if this thread is going to continue on then it may be wise for people posting to not get overly defensive about things,this could be a good discussion.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
I think this is unfair, of course members are going to read their own threads and really it should be that if the person isnt listening to the advice given, the person giving advice should stop posting, as they dont have to read the replies, as opposed to the OP feeling forced off their own thread.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
Which I believe is easily achieved, but not often used my members who find it so much easier to 'just pop in and leave safe hugs'
But thats the advice they give, the same as your tough love method. Neither are worse or better than the other, both have a place. The middle ground works too and I think thats where some sort of understanding would be reached, by offering support that is constructive but isnt overly harsh.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
Ok, perhaps instead of read, it should say - they don't have to interpret it as somebody being a bitch/bully.
But if someone is continuing to force their brand of support on someone who has expressed that it doesnt work for them, then it seems to be on the verge of bullying to continue to force it onto someone, Im not sure what people would gain from that? If youre making a supportive reply then surely the key is to support the member and to adapt to their needs, if its not then whats the point in trying to support them?
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
Same here, couldn't put words to it before but you've hit the nail on the head!
I've been reading this thread and trying to put what I'm thinking into words and now I don't have to because you've said what I was failing to word properly.
If someone says "thanks but your approach isn't really helping", then whoever is being told that needs to back the heck off.
Sometimes all a person needs is to know that they're being heard, understood and that they have people around them who just "get it".
Not everyone wants to be analyzed and challenged.
^ I agree!
Also as another point I see the sort've opinions that people sometimes express not just on here but on the whole internet in general places like youtube,facebook a lot of people on internet seem to have a negative attitude to others in general and feel that they should let it be known because they are behind a computer-I mean I don't think a lot of people would blatantly go up to a stranger and go yeah I think you're lying etc etc,it seems to be the 'trend' these days to say exactly what you think without taking anothers feelings into consideration and then it escalates and leads to cyber bullying.
Also its a huge community with a lot of different characters and different struggles which add to the mix.
"And it's hard to dance with a devil on your back so shake him off."
OP, I feel like this thread is mainly about how you feel about the way you personally have been treated, so will reply as such, and I hope that's OK!
First off, there's definitely a line between tough love and rudeness, and if you feel that line has been crossed, then the best bet is to report it and then don't reply to that particular comment, or else you risk being rude yourself and getting into trouble as well!
If I'm honest, I find it hard to reply to you sometimes, because I see so much of myself in you, and I know that when I was in a similar headspace to you, all I wanted was to be kept safe and be looked after and have people be nice to me, but actually, that was the last thing in the world I needed. I'm aware that we're not exactly the same and that what helped me might not help you, but it's easy to forget that in the heat of the moment when you're on a replying rampage and just want to help someone help themselves. It can be frustrating and I think often it's because people care so much that they persevere in the hope that persistence will result in you eventually seeing things differently.
I'm aware this is getting long and probably off-topic (as usual for me!), so I will stop. I have cut this post down considerably, so feel free to PM me if you do want to hear my further thoughts, but equally I understand if you don't want to think right now about deeper questions about what you want and need, and that's why I'm making the choice not to bombard you with my thoughts on your support thread! I hope this reply makes sense and comes across as it is intended- I am not trying to justify rudeness at all, just trying to explain how sometimes best intentions can come across as being unhelpful!
I do try to offer constructive support, but when it is repeatedly ignored, tough love should be tried before just walking away. I honestly think tough love at least encourages thought and some form of constructive responce, as a pposed to threads where the only reply is 'hugs' or 'well done' and then the OP uses it as pretty much a ranting thread, wanting more 'hugs' replies.
I just don't see how productive those sort of replies can ever be.
Yes but just because you dont see it as productive doesnt mean that the case. Sometimes people just want to know people care and that there are people who are going to give them the kind of support they need.
If its obvious that tough love doesnt work then why force it onto someone? It doesnt encourage thought for some people, it makes them afraid to post and drives them away.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
It does make them think though, because they still reply.
Have you seen the kind of replies it provokes though?Usually emotional/dramatic and not full of thought. It can make people scared and upset and worried about judgement.
Forcing tough love onto someone for any reason is unfair and unnecessary when its plainly not wanted.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
On a similar thing, not everyone needs to challenged, some people have therapists and people in their real life to do that. Some people need to get out those irrational thoughts and have somewhere they feel safe and comfortable to do so.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
Forcing tough love onto someone for any reason is unfair and unnecessary when its plainly not wanted.
I think I agree with this, in the context of internet forums. I do believe there's a time and place for persistent tough love (when balanced with lots of actual love too!), but I don't think here is the place, especially between people who are practically strangers. I think unless it's coming from someone who really knows you and is a big part of your life, it will not be effective and probably do more harm than good.
I also think there's a real possibility that some people think 'tough love' is synonymous with being downright rude, and use 'tough love' as justification for getting frustrated with someone and being pernickety and snipe-y at them and it gives genuine tough love a bad name!
I said I was going to stop talking and I just talked more -.-
There are people here at every stage of their illnesses, and people seem to be forgetting that hindsight is a wonderful thing. Sometimes you just can't stop other people making mistakes, just because you know something was unwise for you. What would you have thought back then?
This is so so important and something I think is frequently overlooked. Thank you for pointing this out, and for this thread too because even though it is a frequent problem it is often not talked about.
Liv has made some amazing points here today I can't even quote them all but i agree 100%, and I'm very very glad you're on the moderating team to represent these views. No pressure, but never leave <3
This post is obviously here because you aren't getting replies in your own threads that are 110% comfortable for you. Unfortunately though, when you post on a public - and relatively anonymous - internet forum, this is a risk you take. & it's true in real life too, which you have found recently (like when Nicola told you that you needed to take responsibility for yourself, so you acted out). People don't always tell you what you want to hear.
I think when you behave in the way that you do, actively grandstanding your behaviours, you open yourself up for these responses. There are a lot of people who are rubbed entirely the wrong way by the sorts of things that you post about (and for the reasons they interpret that you post them). No you might not like them, but the internet is a place where people can say whatever they want.
I think if you are going to continue to post how you have in the past, these responses will continue to flow. Most especially when you ignore the ones that are real attempts to help (which is most, despite the fact they are not the validation of 'oh poor baby yes you need to be in hospital you are so sick' responses).
The biggest changes will come from you. When you begin to act in a mature and responsible way, the responses will likely become more of the same - or, for the ones that already are, you may begin to see them for what they are, rather than a painful annoyance of not getting what you want.
