Without wishing to start anything too political on the site, I'm slightly amazed that there has been no comment on the wriggling out of a fair share of Corporation Tax by these firms. Together they've earned something around £1 billion annually in this country but their tax contribution has been derisory, while the poor ordinary citizen has necessarily been squeezed by both inflation and limitations on pay.
Pay your full share, you t*ssers, while the rest of the country has to also! If I were head of PR of any of the firms concerned, I'd be sweating on the impact that your tax skiving was going to have upon your future business.
And, lest you think I'm just swiping from the sidelines, I can remember when in the days of the last Callaghan Labour government (about 1977) someone very close to me finally sold her former pony paddock for building land for about £120K - probs a good bit more than £1/2 million in todays money. The £20K was swallowed up by the bill for access, but she then had to pay £50K in Land Development Tax and was left with the change! Six months later Maggie Thatcher came to power and raised the threshold to a level where she wouldn't have had to pay a penny -(another £50K to the Chancellor - aargh!)
And tax immediately after WW2 was viciously punitive, up to 98%!, so that very many landowners just gave up and destroyed their stately homes to the loss of us all today. I get the impression that many in UK greatly resented anyone who owned more than they did and were determined to strip them of it in the new egalitarian postwar world. And I'm sometimes tempted to think that the doctrine of envy still persists today ...
Tony (who has already paid much more than his fair share!)
Same story as always tony. Big companies and mega rich can do what they like and the rest of the country have to pay for it.
All of these companies are too big to have to worry about boycotts or any backlash. We can all complain about it, but who honestly is going to stop using google because of it?
Well, makedamnsure, I will never use Starbucks and only use Amazon if I absolutely have to, and suppose I'm stuck with Google. But surely they've all got to realise the damage they're doing to their image if they persist in being tight-arse taxpayers ...
The thing is, are they really doing damage?
Will the people who buy Starbucks really stop buying it and move their custom to a company who does pay their taxes?...
'Coincidence...it's what the Universe does for...fun.'
The Doctor
Hey thank the EU. Companies get to pay the tax rate of any of the 27 EU country they base in - so they pick the cheapest (they do the same with states in the US). Amazon is based in Luxembourg so they pay 3.0 VAT in Lux instead of the 20% in UK. What could happen is Amazon will just increase its VAT and your prices will go up. Nobody really wins the tax game. You might as well go out in the street and demand to be pay higher prices. Dung rolls downhill as they say
You'd think at £3.75 for a Frappuccino they could afford to pay a little tax...
Ultimately though, I love Starbucks, it's the one thing I really, really enjoy no matter what, so I'd probably go even if they stated killing kittens...
But I hope the loopholes that allow companies to do this are closed up by the Government, to create a fairer tax system. It seems incredibly unfair that a young mother can struggle doing a 50 hour week on minimum wage to put food on the table, and get's a 1/3 taken away in tax, whilst massive businesses get out of millions of pounds of tax.
Starbucks argued that they weren't making a profit in the UK due to the high costs of paying for rights/intelligent property/brands abroad, but the reality is a) they were massively 'overcharging' themselves and b) if that were the case, and the UK was so unprofitable, they would have a store on every street corner.
It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.
The thing is, are they really doing damage?
Will the people who buy Starbucks really stop buying it and move their custom to a company who does pay their taxes?...
Apparently quite a few Starbucks' have been alot quieter than normal possibly due to a boycott, while Costa who pay all their tax have been alot busier.
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici.
By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.
I'd much rather go to a company that pay there way, than a company that doesn't.
Sadly starbucks is francised at my work and I get 50% off on shift so it doesn't always work that way.
I think it is a disgrace that they aren't paying there tax and also how rich people put there money in offshore accounts to prevent having to pay tax.
A girl asked me yesterday though if I was rich, would I put my money there, and it kind of made me think.
Although mostly tax is a good thing, we all hate being taxed right?! I pay real 'basic rate' tax (around £8 a week) but as soon as I work a few extra hours, my tax shoots up to make the extra hours not worth it..so I do find it a pain in the arse.
Life can be beautiful if you let it.
Step back, breathe and take it in
I think it's the government's responsibility to close any loopholes that are being exploited by these companies. I found it quite sickening when the group of sanctimonious MPs were grilling the heads of these companies and telling them off for being 'immoral'. I bet almost every MP has an accountant who organises their money in the most 'tax-effiecient' way. As far as I can see, the larger the amounts of money involved, the less 'morality' actually comes in to play. Immorality isn't illegal. Why is anyone surprised by this? If they want more revenue from tax, maybe they should scrap HMRC and start again with a body that works effectively, and get rid of all the loopholes that are there to be exploited.
And the illusion of love is the only promise of defence, and even that will crumble.
I heard on the news earlier today that Starbuck's UK managing director has said that they will pay £10m in tax over the next 3 years - as opposed to none over the past 3! They seem to have been shamed into brassing up - hooray!
I lot of people I know are on basic rate minimum wage or just slightly above and to see a chunk of your hard earned cash be deducted is bad. I don't believe you should pay income tax until you earn enough to live on.
In the UK they reckon you need to be on a £20K salary to survive for a full year. People working less still get basic rate tax taken off them at 20%. If I work an extra say 8-10hours in a week- (I work 29.5weekly) then the money I've earned doing those extra hours go, and if I'm lucky I will get around £6 more because my tax goes up.. from a £8 weekly deduction to a £26 weekly deduction There is noway in hell that I'd be able to survive on my own. At most I can save maybe a 1-1.5K a year.
I understand it is for good things (although it doesn't all get spent in the 'right way') but it doesn't encourage me to work extra hours when I get nothing for it (although I don't have much choice) The way it is handled in the UK aswell, with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer is a disgrace. From April I'll be allowed to earn 9K before tax, yet, minimum wage went up in Oct so, I'll earn slightly over the threshold again.
If they made it a little fairer then maybe people wouldn't get upset about it.
Life can be beautiful if you let it.
Step back, breathe and take it in
Wow, HopeRises, what an example of the Doctrine of Envy! Of course the rich (of which I'm definitely not one) get richer; they invest their earnings in businesses which they hope will flourish and give them back what's called a dividend; would you want to give the cash you've earned, and hoped to rely on in your old age, to a company for nil return?
If some people are industrious or clever enough to earn a pile of money, surely they are entitled (having duly paid their taxes), to dispose of the remainder as they wish. Because investment returns in the City are so pathetic, I have heard that many young city dwellers (who apparently regard "cash as trash" - because it earns so little interest) invest in not just one pair of Purdey shotguns but a pair of Holland and Hollands or Bosses instead)! Lucky sods!
Who are these spammers and why hasn't their stuff been deleted?
Meanwhile, reverting to the original subject of the thread, a quote from an article in Country Life magazine a week or so ago, talking of Starbucks et al:
"These are companies who take our money and then whisk it off to foreign banks without making a proper contribution to the roads on which their supplies are transported, the police and armed forces that keep this country a safe place in which to do business, and the benefits that care for the old and disabled who are bound to be among their customers.
It's not illegal to siphon off profit through carefully designed tax-avoidance structures, but it is certainly wrong. What's more, those companies know it's wrong. They know that every pound of the millions in tax they avoid is being paid by other businesses, based here in Britain. These firms have done nothing criminal, but by every measure, they've done something fundamentally wrong and, by doing it, they have undermined our nation's community. Off with their heads!"
Who are these spammers and why hasn't their stuff been deleted?
There are loads of spammers about at the minute and I imagine it must be really difficult and time-consuming for the Mods to keep up with deleting it all. Not sure how so many spammers are getting in.
No criticism of the Mods intended, reappear - they do an excellent job. But my immediate reaction on seeing the stuff spammed onto the thread was one of outrage. I wish there was some way of getting back at them ...
Tony
PS. I'm pretty sure the birds in the photo you use are fieldfares - can you confirm?
Im pretty sure its something that Harley/James can do something aboutTony. Hint hint! :P x
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
No criticism of the Mods intended, reappear - they do an excellent job. But my immediate reaction on seeing the stuff spammed onto the thread was one of outrage. I wish there was some way of getting back at them ...
Tony
PS. I'm pretty sure the birds in the photo you use are fieldfares - can you confirm?
Hi Tony, sorry, didn't mean to imply that, the spam makes me cross too. Have seen it appearing in some support threads which is a little saddening.
Re: the birds, I'm actually not sure at all, it's just a pic I found on Google. I'm not great with bird knowledge; I recently pointed out a bird to someone, shouting "Blue Tit! Blue Tit!" in great excitement only to be told it was a Kingfisher.
I'll talk to James and Harley regarding the spam, but I (being an IT ignoramus) fear that the more you somehow restrict access to the site, the more difficult it will be for those who need it to join and use it.
Harley started the site well over 10 years ago now, and I like to think that it has provided support for thousands of people since then. So who are these insolent, self-seeking, money-grabbers who dare to intrude on something which is entirely benevolent? Pistols at dawn - for any of them who dare to own up!
I'll talk to James and Harley regarding the spam, but I (being an IT ignoramus) fear that the more you somehow restrict access to the site, the more difficult it will be for those who need it to join and use it.
Harley started the site well over 10 years ago now, and I like to think that it has provided support for thousands of people since then. So who are these insolent, self-seeking, money-grabbers who dare to intrude on something which is entirely benevolent? Pistols at dawn - for any of them who dare to own up!
Tony (in military mode),
It's a problem everywhere at the moment I moderate on a different web forum and had to ban 72 advertisers in the space of just 24 hours. Mostly Chinese companies trying to flog fake ugg boots and pharmaceuticals. It's a problem similar to those annoying PPI text messages that everyone keeps getting, because the spammers originate from India, Russia, China, etc there is little action that can be taken to stop them Other than just removing their posts after they've been spotted. As soon as you ban their account they create another one, as soon as you block their IP they switch to another. Never ending cat and mouse. Personally I favour a more permanent approach of a ricin tipped umbrella or polonium in their tea but that's probably a tad extreme for most folks.
Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money.
They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with.
Some men just want to watch the world burn.
I moderate on a different web forum and had to ban 72 advertisers in the space of just 24 hours. Mostly Chinese companies trying to flog fake ugg boots and pharmaceuticals. It's a problem similar to those annoying PPI text messages that everyone keeps getting, because the spammers originate from India, Russia, China, etc there is little action that can be taken to stop them 
Other than just removing their posts after they've been spotted. As soon as you ban their account they create another one, as soon as you block their IP they switch to another. Never ending cat and mouse. Personally I favour a more permanent approach of a ricin tipped umbrella or polonium in their tea but that's probably a tad extreme for most folks.