But, really, I do think we need a forum where people go specifically if they want 'hardcore' direct confrontation and challenge. So, like maybe merging the Vets forums and then having a Challenge Me [cheesy title but just as an e.g.] subforum.
I don't know, just, I think it would make things simpler and less alienating for some.
Last edited by Stellata : 02-01-2012 at 10:38 AM.
Reason: Clarifying.
From the other thread it seems like most people feel that the split damaged Vets? Obviously it was agreed at the time Apparently it was not agreed with members, but someone obviously thought it was a good idea, but perhaps that has changed now, with different people or those who didn't want the split still around. I never really read or use that forum, so it might be an idea to actually poll them in there?
Whilst I understand the desire for the Vets forum, I don't really like it at all. It can make it easier for people to find the more 'adult' topics, like housing or money issues, or children, or marriage, but there is very little integration with elsewhere on the forum, and that makes me sad. It's like its own little bubble, with only a few posters stepping out.
Last edited by The One Who : 01-01-2012 at 12:49 PM.
I think it damaged it completely. It wasn't agreed with general members, I believe it was done by the team who were dealing with the site moval anf they seemed to champion it, so therefore that was what we had. It was often debated 'back in the day' though and no conclusion was reached so it was just done anyway.
That said, I don't believe that merging it will 'save' vets, but I do think maybe it might help in some respects and hinder in others (could help in that all threads are mixed together, in that the forums might move faster because it will all be together and not too spread out, might hinder because the support threads might not get as many replies and drop off faster). I never found vets 'clicky' when I was a new member; I actually found it welcoming when I joined but it became 'clicky' when there were lots of 'in' jokes only designed for a specific demographic and small clutch of people- that also damaged vets but not for those individuals.
Really the thing that is likely to help it most is people going in, posting, giving, as well as taking, supporting as well as having a laugh, etc. Basically making it a community again; this time though, a community that is welcoming to as wider amount of people as possible; not an exclusive one.
I totally agree with all what you have said in the other thread where we where discussing about Vets i couldnt think how to word what i was trying to say and i wasnt sure how to say it. I do think that the Vets area has completely lost the community feel though.
I also feel that all of the Vets area should be refreshed because it seems very lacking. Although alot of people use the Psych Ward it seems very lacking, people only say hi most the time and give hugs which is ok but it just seems like its struggling.
It would be more appropriate to have a 'hugs and sympathy' only type label you can attach to any thread as we need challenge to change and this is called 'recover your life'. I think one forum would be better but wonder if it would even be possible.
Empathy and sympathy are somewhat different. What I'm calling for is a bit of empathy - considering the feelings of the person asking for support/companionship/advice, and accepting that they are a different person with a whole different back story to the person replying. It's easy to just say something on the internet, not seeing the person's face. Humans are... human. Some more sensitive than others. It's not a sin to be sensitive, though to be honest it does make life hard at times - but not on purpose.
A gentler approach suits some more than others. A gentler approach can still be challenging. But the means of challenge some people prefer is confrontational. That doesn't suit some people.
But don't forget tone is hard to read online. Some members don't like to use softy words and emoticons and write 'hugs'. Which is fair enough. But we can't say they're not being sympathetic for writing tithe point. It has to be a two way thing between sensitive members needing sensitive typing, and acknowledgement from them than peep replying with practical advice are not being 'harsh'.
If I were to be honest I would propose for vets, this:
Scrap them both and make a new 'adult life issues' style section for general advice on more adult issues.
I don't see the need for a section for older members to post about SI or ED or MH stuff outside f the specific support forums but do see the need and benefit of a section for 'life' advice for older people
It would be more appropriate to have a 'hugs and sympathy' only type label you can attach to any thread
I have to say that I disagree with this. Sounds incredibly unproductive. There is the R//V forum for those who want hugs but no replies. Otherwise you are putting a thread onto a forum and should probably appreciate any reply you get. Yes, there should be (and is to a large extent) respect for one another, and as such I don't think any reply is meant to be malicious in its intent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stellata
Empathy and sympathy are somewhat different. What I'm calling for is a bit of empathy - considering the feelings of the person asking for support/companionship/advice, and accepting that they are a different person with a whole different back story to the person replying. It's easy to just say something on the internet, not seeing the person's face.
To be honest, I think if someone is replying on a support thread then they are considering the feelings of the person, and I think we all know that everyone is different. The reply may not be what you (general you, not you personally) feel that you would like, but if someone has taken the time to reply then I think that should be appreciated. As a text-based form of communication it is very easy to have something misinterpreted, no matter how it is written, and that interpretation will come from the state of mind of the reader.
I think the who,e site would benefit if it were done as I said, because then you would get different ages and experiences in different areas, rather than separate areas for young and old problems. I sti,l think there is some benefit to a section like general support, but for adult issues because as said someone younger prob wouldn't have any experience in, say, uni or work or children and the like.
'Young and old problems' made me smile. :) Just the way you worded it. I don't think it was intentional, but it was kind of :)
It was intentional purely because what I wanted to say would involved air quotes and I am too lazy to go hunting for them on my iPad hehe!! So I went for young and old!
Do you get my meaning though? Like a lot of older members won't post in the specific forums, but will post in vets support. I don't think that is necessary at all, and I don't really understand why we have it.
Basically what JodiE said Vets is needed for more 'adult' issues that the younger majority won't experience such as uni pregnancy marriage etc etc but I would say it is entirely unnecessary for MH stuff which applies to everybody whatever the age.
'Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.'
['There is only one thing we say to death. Not today'.']
'We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell. Oscar Wilde
Its hard to dance with the devil on your back. Sydney Carter
I'm not sure how anyone else older views it, however, this is how I view it.
The reason I used to like vets was because I was surrounded by people of a similar age.
The reason that can sometimes be important is because a lot of this site is made up of significantly younger members. Now, don't get me wrong, some of the maturest and my most favourite people are/were significantly younger than me so this is not an age thing. However, probably due to the fact I used to teach up to 18s, I didn't used to feel comfortable with having any 'child' (sorry) of that age supporting me. I felt it was my 'duty' to look after them, help them stay safe, be there for them, etc.
Going to a place where I didn't feel I had to 'protect' other members meant it was safer to be honest, and I would expect that honest advice back.
Nowadays it matters less because I don't have a huge clutch of teens that I support, and if I post it's generally people of my age who reply anyway so its less of an issue, but that was why I liked vets and felt safe there. It was a place I could be me. Given a lot of the adults also have children, some of whom are the same age as members of this site, it is entirely possible that they also feel the same.
I also think that a place for general chatter away from general chat would still be beneficial which is where a merged vets could potentially be useful. Just merging it with the rest of the site would lose a lot, I think. Although, not as much now as previously.
This is a very insightful perspective and you've included some things that wouldn't have occurred to me so thankyou :)
'Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.'
['There is only one thing we say to death. Not today'.']
'We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell. Oscar Wilde
Its hard to dance with the devil on your back. Sydney Carter
Do you get my meaning though? Like a lot of older members won't post in the specific forums, but will post in vets support. I don't think that is necessary at all, and I don't really understand why we have it.
I agree with this. I do understand why the Vets forum exists, but I don't like that it is so separate from everywhere else. It is like a completely separate entity to the rest of the forum, and that may be where some of the issues of cliques and whatnot come from.
When it was split it became more of it's own entity. I suspect that is related to Harley's original bigger plan, which was for vets to have it's own totally separate forum away from RYL.
It would be good to bring it back as part of RYL as opposed to somewhere stuck a bit in between.
It's up the Vets themselves to be part of RYL though, is there something stopping them? I don't know. Like I say, maybe this discussion would be better placed in Vets General rather than here, might reach a slightly wider audience?
As for that plan, hmm, can't say I agree with that. Like has been said elsewhere, those who 'qualify' (for want of a better word) to post in Vets can bring a lot of elsewhere on the forum in terms of offering a different perspective and of having 'been there'.
I think generally, if you look at the people who are posting regularly in vets you will see they are posting all around the place, like Romp, Mrs Sam, those ladies who post in the Baby Support thread, some from the psych thread, etc. The rest is pretty dead and there aren't actually many members posting only in there.
It's not been mentioned for years so suspect it's gone out the window but with this amount of members in vets, it would die for sure which would make it totally pointless.
I rarely read/post in Vets, so I don't really know who is still there and who isn't. It goes through a lot of incarnations!
Another idea might be to having a sub-forum similar to N&D, but for the more 'adult' issues? Put it as part of GSA? That way it is still keeping that sort of thing separate (and easy to find), but isn't totally away from everything else. Is there anything in Vets General that couldn't go elsewhere? I'm meaning the more chatty-style threads here.
I don't see the need for a section for older members to post about SI or ED or MH stuff outside f the specific support forums but do see the need and benefit of a section for 'life' advice for older people
I disagree, because I personally prefer to post about my SI etc problems somewhere where I know it will be read by people more my own age and life stage. It feels safer for me to talk about my own lowest points in vets, whereas I often post other lighter things in the other forums, or reply to support threads in general, serious etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrelspit
Would people feel the whole site would be better if it were merged or if this is a vets specific thing?
A vets specific thing, because I think the site would turn into a mess if it were all merged and support threads would probably drop off pages, people wouldn't know where to find advice on problems similar to theirs eg. if ED and SI were all bunched in together and someone wanted to see if anyone was going through the same ED problem as them. Whereas I feel that vets is small enough to merge and still be ok.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellatrix
Do you get my meaning though? Like a lot of older members won't post in the specific forums, but will post in vets support. I don't think that is necessary at all, and I don't really understand why we have it.
For me, as I said before I feel safe there, and also I like the replies I get which are more constructive advice rather than JUST *hugs*.
Now I KNOW there is nothing wrong with hugs, I love getting hugs, it's just that I've come to feel that the replies I get in vets are more useful to me than what I get elsewhere. I know you can't please everyone and what works for me isn't what works for everyone, however, if older members don't feel the advice they get in vets useful, they don't have to post there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash
I'm not sure how anyone else older views it, however, this is how I view it.
The reason I used to like vets was because I was surrounded by people of a similar age.
The reason that can sometimes be important is because a lot of this site is made up of significantly younger members. Now, don't get me wrong, some of the maturest and my most favourite people are/were significantly younger than me so this is not an age thing. However, probably due to the fact I used to teach up to 18s, I didn't used to feel comfortable with having any 'child' (sorry) of that age supporting me. I felt it was my 'duty' to look after them, help them stay safe, be there for them, etc.
Going to a place where I didn't feel I had to 'protect' other members meant it was safer to be honest, and I would expect that honest advice back.
I also think that a place for general chatter away from general chat would still be beneficial which is where a merged vets could potentially be useful. Just merging it with the rest of the site would lose a lot, I think. Although, not as much now as previously.
Yes I agree with you here.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break
that its heart may stand in the sun,
so must you know pain.
There are only two ways in which one can live their life. One is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is.
If I were to be honest I would propose for vets, this:
Scrap them both and make a new 'adult life issues' style section for general advice on more adult issues.
I don't see the need for a section for older members to post about SI or ED or MH stuff outside f the specific support forums but do see the need and benefit of a section for 'life' advice for older people
This.
But then, couldn't this very quickly become the same as general support?
in the other thread where we where discussing about Vets i couldnt think how to word what i was trying to say and i wasnt sure how to say it. I do think that the Vets area has completely lost the community feel though. 
