Does a thought only become 'wrong' when it is acted upon? Or does having sinful thoughts alone (without acting upon them) make somebody a 'bad' person?
For example:
Wishing somebody else was dead and plotting their murder, but not carrying it out.
Fantasising about rape or sexually abusing young children.
There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half full, say: 'This glass is half full'. And then there are those who say: 'This glass is half empty'.
The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: 'What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
I don't know anything about sinful, but I know that thoughts aren't illegal. It's common for people to think about hurting or killing someone - a lot of people don't talk about it, but it's certainly not unusual. Sometimes it's a way of processing your feelings and experiences. I suppose it depends on how much these thoughts upset the person going through them on whether it's an issue that requires concern (or how likely they are to act on the thoughts).
I think, from what I understand, that it's also not uncommon for both men and women to have rape fantasies. Again, the percentage of people who act on them is far, far lower.
It's the action, not the thoughts, which is bad and wrong.
I think thoughts don't matter, actions matter, that's what determines a person as "good" or "bad", if you have disturbing thoughts, I don't see the problem as long as they are not acted upon.
If the thoughts distress someone though, that is a problem for them, and they should seek help for it as it may be due to a mental illness such as OCD(I suffer with intrusive thoughts / images with my OCD too) but honestly, your actions are what matters, peoples minds are all over the place and thoughts can pop out of nowhere, but that's just being human, it's your actions that truly matter IMO.
It depends on the thought - like you say about rape and sexual abuse. I dont think personally a thought can be sinful, but it can be wrong.
BUT IT DOES NOT MAKE YOU BAD!
As long as you try not to follow your thoughts if they are not very healthy.
I dont think people should say that people are bad, because there are a lot of people on here who have done things they regret or have not been in the right frame of mind when following an action, and they might take that personally.
If someone has done something they regret and the action was perceived as "wrong" or "bad", I use quotes as I dislike judgmental words like that, I don't think anyone is neither good nor bad per se, but if they have done something they regret/feel bad about, it really does depend on the action, if it was murder or rape for example...that's a tad more serious than for example stealing a car or having a physical fight, but in the end,
IMO...
if people feel bad for something they've done, that's always a good sign, because then they can work on not doing things like it again in the future and working on themselves as a whole and everything.
When people don't feel bad for an action they've done that's clearly wrong, I do think that says something about them as a person, so maybe not always is it that actions matter completely, but it's what happens after that action, too.
That's just me though.
EDIT;
Above, please note I said it MAY be, I never said every single person with disturbing or intrusive thoughts are suffering from a MH illness, but it is quite common for people with say OCD to experience very distressing thoughts like the examples in the beginning of this post, and please take notice that at the end I also did say it's being human to have odd thoughts jumping out of nowhere, I agree with you but there are cases where it can be down to a MH problem and if it is interrupting your life and causing a lot of distress like I said in my original post then I'd say see someone about it. Thanks.
The initial thought isn't wrong / sinful etc. because it likely has arisen in your mind spontaneously due to an experience you've had in the past. But people have a choice to either dwell on that thought, keep thinking on that subject gratuitously, enjoying the idea etc. OR they can make an extreme effort to distract themselves, think of something positive, do some meditation or exercise, get involved in mindless discussion etc. so that their mind is taken off it. Therein lies the difference between bad and good I think.
Stop thinking about what I want, what he wants, what your parents want. What do you want?
I think thoughts don't matter, actions matter, that's what determines a person as "good" or "bad", if you have disturbing thoughts, I don't see the problem as long as they are not acted upon.
I agree with this. And also, to elaborate on that point, most of us have had "bad" thoughts. I think what then separates a "good" person from a "bad" one is the ability to know that this thought is bad and should not be acted upon, and the strength not to act upon it.
The act is what matters. For example there was a woman who actually came on RYL for a little while years ago who had sexual feelings towards children-she had NEVER acted on it, and was in therapy and the reason if memory serves that she hurt herself was because she had these thoughts and feelings. Now personally I think that that woman was bloody brave. To admit to having those feelings and seek help (can you imagine how terrifying that would be!!) rather than risk hurting a child is admirable to me. Having those thoughts and feelings was not a choice for her, but how she acted on them is.
'Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.'
['There is only one thing we say to death. Not today'.']
'We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell.’ – Oscar Wilde
‘It’s hard to dance with the devil on your back.’ Sydney Carter
Depends on your faith. Many people regard the thought alone as sinful and feel the need to go to confession and do whatever penance their priest tells them.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break
that its heart may stand in the sun,
so must you know pain.
There are only two ways in which one can live their life. One is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is.
Religion aside, something is usually considered "wrong" because it hurts other people/takes away other's choices. Thoughts don't do that. They don't create the situation, they only create the virtual idea of the situation (i.e. murder/sexual abuse). Which to me is part of the reason why we have such a huge problem with pedophilia. If people that had variant thoughts (which often happens with abuse victims) were not condemned and shamed, and were treated with the idea that thoughts are just thoughts but if you feel you cannot control them then you should get help and there is nothing wrong about you until you actually act on it, then people who had such thoughts they couldn't control might actually get help before it got to the point where they had convinced themselves it was ok. But in our society, someone who thinks about a harmful act, especially certain ones, is treated as an outcast and someone with fear/anger, even though they have done nothing. Which makes them more likely to end up doing it.
Most people will say they have had suicidal/homicidal thoughts, but it has to do with whether you act on it or can control it. Same with sexual fantasies that involve hurting others. I think people need to realize that to be healthy your brain needs to explore various scenarios, including those that hurt others, in order to have more control over your own behavior and to understand the world/experiences in general. This is considered by many scientists to be the point of dreams. But who here has felt guilty about a dream or a thought, even though that's one of their functions, to help us gain control? Just because a thought feels real, doesn't mean it actually has effects on those around you. Until you let it get out of control, which happens when thoughts are repressed rather than accepted as a part of living.
Instead of using thoughts to gain control over them, we are told to repress them and feel guilt, which makes them less likely to control and results in people doing things they wouldn't have done had they gained acceptance, help if they were distressing/out of control thoughts, and subsequently control over thoughts. Being afraid to think about a topic is to me one of the biggest problems in our society and leads to crime from people who would have accepted help at some point and also keeps things from changing. Nothing should be taboo to think about or even talk about (except actual verbal abuse, which is hurting someone again). Something should only be condemned when it actually is harmful, which a thought can't be until it is acted upon.
Stereotypes are the epitome of human laziness.
- me
Thinking of doing something bad, but not actually doing it harms no one...So I would of thought as long as you don't do it you're not doing anything bad.
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I agree with the actions being more important than thoughts. But I also think what the person feels while the thoughts are there plays some sort of part in it too. Like whether they're actually enjoying the thoughts or contrarily freaked out by them. Or even just observing them indifferently.
Stop thinking about what I want, what he wants, what your parents want. What do you want?
From the point of view of the Christian bible people are not good or bad in themselves - they become conduits for good or bad based on the inclination of their soul, ego etc.
Good people can do, say and think bad things. The proclivity for that is inherited. The challenge is for a person to be able to distinguish bewteen their good nature and their false one. To do that takes humility since prideful and egotistical people tend to defend errors. They would rather drive people crazy than admit a mistake.
Now technically a guy who has fantasies about being with his friends wife is sinning because inwardly lust is overriding his decency. His lower nature is rising above his higher one. Acting on the lust is worse. Having temptation and giving in to it are distinguishable.
While not engaging in adultery is good. Having the lust is still seen as harmful. The reason is that people are described as having a lower animal nature and a spiritual one. If people cultivate the lower nature they will lose the spiritual one. That is why the bible says "Whoever will lose their life will find their life". The Greeks had many words for life and the more accurate translation is "Whoever will lose their animal life will find their spiritual life" .
So - the reason a person is supposed to regret lust is not just because they did something wrong on a laundry list but because it blocks the person from finding their true inner source of feeling alive and content within themselves. People aren't really meant to try to force themselves to act good because they can't. They are supposed to just be sorry for something wrong they can't control. Sincere sorrow brings discovery of an inner part that breaks the bonds of the lower nature and makes people more whole and human. The "the mind gets made anew from within" and people become "like a child again" - free in themselves and light spirited.
That's a long explanation but its a complicated thing. People do not originate many thoughts as much as they receive them - like a radio. What thoughts people get depends on how they are dialed in. People should not be upset just because a bad thought comes into their head. Its what they do with it when its in there that counts. Even if people run with the bad thought in their head they should still see it as something not trully an expression of their better nature. Bad thoughts should be seen for what they are but without excessive self-condemnation. That would also being playing God.
