Is 'Telling' on someone you know Self Harms betraying their trust?
Hi Everyone,
I was on BBC Radio again yesterday morning, discussing this question, and since we are yet to have a proper discussion / debate in this forum I thought it would be most interesting to start up a proper thread about it.
Basically, the question was this. If you discover someone is harming themselves, or they have come to you - is telling those around them (like parents, teachers etc) the wrong thing to do? Is it betraying their trust, or forcing them into a position that will ultimately help them.
I am not going to come out with my answers / reasoning just yet as I want to see both sides of this :)
The second part of the question was that, if it was potentially a very bad idea to tell people - then how on earth IS someone meant to help.
This is a fair enough point, and one that I am sure we can come up with some good discussions for :)
Its a really hard decision to make, but if you are sure that telling someone, and that person will react in a way that is helpful then I dont think it is wrong at all. Intentions mean a lot, and mistakes do happen but I think it is sometimes whats needed. Obviously the more danger a person is in the more important you get help for them. x
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They way my s/h was found out was by my friends telling a teacher and her telling my parents. I found it a bit of a betrayl on the teachers behalf because she didnt talk to me about it for 3 days after she called my parents.
Also in uni i rember my friend telling the uni everything about me which felt like an awful betrayl becasue of they way the uni worded the situation to me, "that i was bringing people down and affecting thier ability to work", it wasnt for a long time later that i realsied he had done it to help me becasue he was worried.
I guess you have to tell someone, or at least get them to tell someone. You dont need a freind to tell you that s/h is ok and what you are doing is fine, because its not, and if you do s/h then their must be some other reason behind it like a mental illness, and if thats left untreated, then someones s/h could turn into someone suicide becasue no one interviend at the first signs of needing help.
Some one could help by listening and trying to get them to stop, and encouragin them to seek help on thier own, but thats all you can do really.
"Its not how long a star shines, what is remembered is the brightness of the light"
I think that self harmers are so afraid of being found out that it takes a lot to go and tell someone about it. If that person than goes and passes on this information and the reaction isn't great then the self harmer is going to feel even more alone. Personally if anybody passes on personal information about me that I have told them in confidence to anyone without my permission it is a betrayal of my trust and would cause me to clam up even more than I do at the moment.
I have had both situations from the truly helpful to the downright damaging. I can only remember the damaging ones because they are the occasions that have really hurt me and caused me to do more harm to myself - in fact the two major occasions that I can remember have both led me to become acutely suicidal and the effects of the 'betrayal' are still with me today.
The times passing on this information was helpful was when friends raised there concerns about me with teachers without giving away details because I hadn't told them this but this raised the alarm bells in the school and I was given more help.
I do think it is situational what works for one person won't work for another but I think the best way you can help someone who has confided in you is to help them get help themselves and if this doesn't work then tell them that you feel you have no choice but give them the option of who you would talk to. Because they still have options and control over what happens and at the end of the day most of us have reason's why x shouldnt know and those reasons should count for something.
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As others have said it depends on the situation. Sometimes I would feel so betrayed by an act like this but other times it is what I needed because I needed someone to talk to - if this makes sence.
I think being honest with the person when they fist confined in you and say you might have to tell someone for their own safety, and is there a specific teacher, carer, worker etc that they would prefer to be told. Trying to convince them to speak to someone who may have the means to help, dr etc just so you haven't be left to deal with this yourself when you can't.
If you never promise to keep it a secret and make them aware that you may have to pass the information on to specific people then maybe it could be less of a blow to the self harmer.
If the self harmer is really needing help quickly and you know it isn't something you can deal with yourself then go and speak to someone, say you go and tell your year head, but maybe mention that you don't want them to phone parents (if they have to) until they have spoken every thing through with the self harmer. You should say to the self harmer you are going to speak to this person...yes they may hate you for it for a while but it might be the only thing you can do. You have to look after yourself and do what YOU feel is the best for them.
I think what I am trying to say is if you make the self harmer aware that you can't keep this completely between the two of you and that you have to tell someone who will most likely be more help than you can then it might be less of a blow to the self harmer when you speak to someone.
Promising not to say anything and then going behind their back, even though it is for their own good can destroy their trust and ultimately make it harder for them to deal with things and beable to trust any one else who may be able to help them.
Keeping the self harmer involved it who you have to talk to, what is happening etc gives them the feeling of some control and makes them aware of what is happening. So for example they don't go home and find out their guidance, year head and parents all now know...that can be a bit of a blow and very hard to deal with.
Okay will stop ranting....I hope I have got my point across...you can't keep this to yourself, especially if it is endangering the self harmer and yourself(causing you stress etc). Just make sure the self harmer is involved with who you speak to, go together to speak to a teacher or doctor etc. But sometimes thought they won't agree you will have to tell someone so hopefully you are both safe.
Devil x
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personaly, i would only tell if i felt that the person was a danger to him/herself. this is a very personal matter for everyone who si's and it should be up to each individual who knows (unless they have said that they do not care). now while privately i may do an immense amount of poking and prodding, i would not tell someone else's secrete unless keeping it could do them serious harm. if their si was getting to the point where it was possibly life threatening then i would not hesitate telling someone else. even if they hate me, they would be alive to do so.
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If anyone who knows I self harm told anyone else I would never forgive them, ever. The only situation which I think would be okay, is if the person is suicidal and in real danger of their life. I definately depends who they told, too - if they told someone who could really help me, such as the school counsellor for example, I'd be more inclined to forgive them because I would then know they were only trying to help. However, if they went and told another friend, then in my opinion, it's out of order. If I tell someone that I self harm, it's because I 100% trust them - so if they went and told someone else I would say that was betraying my trust, yes.
And, if you're going to tell another person, I'd find it much more acceptable if you told the self-harmer that you think telling someone would be a good idea, and ask for their opinions and views on it rather than just doing it.
"When the planes hit the Twin Towers, as far as I know none of the phone calls from the people on board were messages of hate or revenge - they were all messages of love. If you look for it, I've got a sneaky feeling you'll find that love actually is all around.”
If they tell someone, chances are they're worried and looking out for you.
But, it depends on the person, the way they react and stuff.
I personally see it as betrayal.
x
If we fall,
we don't need self recrimination or blame or anger -
If a friend of mine told me in confidence that they were self-harming. I'd talk them through it all. But then i'd feel it was my duty as a friend to tell someone(mainly their parents,so nobody else is involved).I'd feel even though,it would be likely that they'd hate me,i know it'd be the right thing to do.
I know when my ex started doing it,i told his head of year(i didn't know his parents).And he stopped,whether that was because i was told very early on or not i don't know.
Although maybe that's a little hypocritical,when i started self-harming,i told my best friend a few months after i started.I obviously didn't want her to tell anybody,but i found it easier to get through it,when i knew someone else knew my secret.
When I was in hospital there were some day patients who were cutting, sharing blades and cutting together on the ward. They swapped tips and tlaked about it constantly. I felt really angry because I was an inpatient, I had to stay for periods of time without cutting, whereas they only had to stay a few hours and could go home whenever. Also in a hospital like ours there is no excuse, I realise in some hospitals there are crap resources and staff, but ours was like amazing, and even the most crappiest staff can do basic distraction like playing table tennis or sitting with you. I was 'expelled' when I did self harm (a year and a half ago) on the ward, although they allowed me back, I got into serious trouble, I had a telling off that had me in tears, when they were doing it repeatedly, and other patients were coming to me really distressed and saying how triggered and upset they were by it.
So in that case I told.
I think if someone's self harm was really affecting me, as in they were showing it to me, boasting about it, tip sharing and talking to them got no where, I would have to think about telling someone then too.
If someone, and various people have, come to me and said they were self harming, I wouldn't tell unless it was severely dangerous (as in hitting an artery, needing a blood transfusion) or a suicide attempt (and in both cases I would tell them that's what I was doing, and I would try and persuade them to do it).
I certainly wouldn't tell just any teacher or a parent either. I would make sure I was telling someone they trusted. I think it's really unfair to tell on people's self harm unless they're in serious danger because they've already done a realy hard thing by coming to you, and you might make the situation a lot worse by exposing them.
I put a friend of mine in this position (he doesn't understand) and he basically said that I need to tell my parents and get help. He never mentioned to me at all that he was going to tell anyone; I have no idea if this was because he thought he would be betraying my trust (I asked him not to tell anyone. However, 6 weeks later, I said that it was alright for him to ask for advice on a message board we post on as long as my name isn't mentioned)
I'm unsure where I stand on this - part of me thinks that someone should know (as I feel I'm unable to help anyone) but at the same time, I feel as though I'd be betraying their trust.
Quote:
I think if someone's self harm was really affecting me, as in they were showing it to me, boasting about it, tip sharing and talking to them got no where, I would have to think about telling someone then too.
If someone, and various people have, come to me and said they were self harming, I wouldn't tell unless it was severely dangerous (as in hitting an artery, needing a blood transfusion) or a suicide attempt (and in both cases I would tell them that's what I was doing, and I would try and persuade them to do it).
To be honest I would tell. I've been told on in the past, and although it was stressful at the time, in all honestly it was one of the best things that could possibly have happened to me. Since people have found out, I have got so much more support. I've forgiven the person who told on me - they were only trying to help me, and wanted me to be safer.
Talking purely from my own experience and my feelings about it.. Is it betraying someones trust? Yes.
I don't care how worried you are about me (I use 'you' and 'me' generally) If I came to you and spoke to you about something so private it's always in confidence. It doesn't matter if you think you're helping, if you force someone to stop before they are ready to stop you could be doing more harm than good.
There's only been two instances when someone has tried to help me by telling someone who could potentially help, one of the times was a teacher, and obviously I don't blame them, it's their job. The other time was one of my closest friends. I told her, she's one of the two or three people I've told (The majority of my friends found out through people gossiping, or me getting drunk at parties not being as careful about things such as sleeves and general behaviour) My friend then and told her mum. She said she was worried and couldn't handle it, and her mum is who she talks to. I felt incredibley betrayed by her, if you're worried about someone surely it makes sense to talk to THAT PERSON about your worries and get them straightened out and whatnot.
I'm an incredibley private person, I'm almost completely closed off about the 'important stuff' even to my closest friends, so if I were to let someone in like that it means I've put a huge amount of trust in them and an excuse like 'I thought I was helping' is utter pish and I'd feel very hurt and betrayed.
Although, nowadays If I trusted someone that much then I'm guessing they'd know me well enough to see how private I am and how much I don't like people helping me.
So if I found out a friend is self harming, I'd be glad they felt they could come to me and I wouldn't tell a soul (Unless they really wanted me to). I'd try and help them using my own experiences. It doesn't take a genius to work out if you're wanting advice or help on something it's best to get it from someone who has been there before.
The way I see it, when you're caught in a pit of depression/anger/selfhatred/selfpity etc no one can get you out, I mean people can offer an ear and advice but ultimately it's down to you to save yourself.
You can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped.
So yeah basically, it's all about when you feel you're ready to start getting over your problems.
I told my mum myself after my best friend encouraged me to but my mum told all the other important people around me.I was upset because I really wasn't ready for everyone to know but I suppose thinking about I can understand why she did it. I'm glad I told my mum so I guess it's probably better to let someone close to them know
Aye yi yi - there are so many different circumstances that would alter my answer. I think that all aspects of a situation would have to be taken into consideration before a decision was made.
Of course, it would also depend *who* you told as well...there are people besides parents and teachers.
To use an example, children in my sisters year - so age 13 were scratching themselves with compass' because boys in 6th form [aged 16 and above] didn't fancy them. This to me plays on all those attention seeking stereotypes. Without going into too much detail, the parents were informed about this and I have to say of all the things my sister has been involved in, *really* got my back up somewhat. So in this situation, yes, I think it was OK - difficult none the less. It also diffussed a situation that was getting considerably out of control.
If someone at Uni told me about their self-harm, it certainly wouldnt be my place to 'tell on them' but I hope there would be a lot I coud encourage them to do... show them the options they have and guide them in a different direction and maybe even to people *they* can talk to about their self harm.
What was the scenario you were asked about in your interview... each situation is *so* individual and should be treated with as much care and thought as the last. I don't think there is any broad yes or no answer.
I think it needs to be the selfharmers choice to tell someone
because you can be there for them but you could lose there friendship by "telling"And personally i think coming out and telling someone is a bigg stage of recovery.....
mxx
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Let nothin’ stand in your way
Cause the hands of time are never on your side
I have had the shoe on many a foot in the situation and my thoughts are as follows.
I've previously told a teacher about a friend who self harmed, whether that was right or not - you'd have to ask her. At the time I was convinced it was for her own good and the right thing to do. Now I think what I did was selfish (yes, selfish) because if her opinion was, telling is wrong, I had no right to contradict that and assume I knew better.
Now I think firstly that other people do not have the right to decide what's for the best for someone else, there could be things you do not know about the situation and you may easily be hindering rather than helping - moreover - I feel that, unless this person has asked for help, or unless their life is in definite danger (that is, they die if you don't "tell") everyone should have the right to do what they want with their own body. I think people have the right to self harm, and they have the right to their own privacy too.
Sure, self harm might be bad for people, it might be making their lives worse, but it also happens to be their own body and I think this needs to be respected.
Another reason, is that I try my hardest to treat people as I would want to be treated. I would take personal offense, if someone 'told' one of my secrets to someone else - especially if they had told with the intent of interfering (or "helping") with my life. If they just needed to talk to someone about it, I would understand a lot more than if they thought it was for myown good.
Many of my friends endanger their health in various ways - if she (I say she lightly , it just happens a lot of my friends are female) smokes, self harms, has an ED, if she'd OD'd or on drugs or if she's drank herself so stupid she can't even walk - I wont betray their trust because it's their life, their body, and as a friend I think I am obliged to do their bidding in keeping their secrets even when I think they might be wrong. Because I am not always right, and I don't have the right to say my opinion is worth more and therefore I can overwrite theirs.
I expect the same treatment back, and to be honest, if I didn't get it I wouldn't consider them a friend.
What an essay!
Last edited by Alcohol Induced Altruism : 20-09-2007 at 07:17 PM.
Reason: Wanted to spell check what I wrote to make it... legible
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in my opinion, if the person is in danger (ie has the means/ability to kill themselves) then someone must be told to make that person safe.
Also if it is a child being told this information then i believe they must tell an adult rather than try to deal with this themselves, a possibly alien and scary world having a child feel they cannot tell about this because so and so will not be their friend anymore to me is unacceptable, if schools have a system in place where a 'whistleblower' can go in confidence then that is so much easier than a child not knowing what to say. feeling guilty about that and possibly trying out thier friend's way of coping.
when it comes to older people, i think they have a duty to respect the other's wishes, so long as that person is not in real danger, when obviously no misguided attempts at secret-keeping should really be in place.
mand x
Mand, South Wales, Full-time working, single mother to 2 scarily independent girls.
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