I just saw his documentary, Choosing to Die, that was shown last night about the right to die, and the Dignitas clinic in Switzerland.
It was very emotional and I am still unsure of my thoughts on this matter.
Do you think people should have the right to die? Do you think people should only have this choice if they have terminal illnesses? According to the documentary, 20% of the people that die at Dignitas do not have terminal illnesses, just a "wearniness of life".
Isn’t it funny how day by day nothing changes but when you look back, everything is different…
you once called your brain a hard drive, well say hello to the virus.
I watched it last night and it's still stuck in my head. It was sooooo moving.
I think we should have the right to choose when we go.
I was very amazed at the 20% who were just tired of life. Wow. Really made me think!
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I think we should be allowed to die on our own terms, whether those terms are suicide or dying of old age, and whether we're terminally ill or not. Even when not depressed, I do think about killing myself someday - not because I want to "end it all," but because at some point in my life I'll have done everything I'm ever going to do, and when that time comes I don't want to have to sit down, do nothing and potentially wait years for my heart to stop of its own accord. I want the freedom to choose to die when I don't have anything left to live for, as opposed to being a cripple, or a vegetable, or just a tired old man who sits around all day eating and sleeping and doing f*ck-all else.
However, if someone wants to be euthanised but doesn't suffer from a terminal illness, they should be made to undergo thorough psychiatric evaluation first, to make sure that their wish to die really is "weariness of life" (or something similar to what I just described) and not just some acute suicidal urge; for example, I think I can safely assume that at least half of the people reading this (including myself) have wanted to kill themselves, then either forgot about it or changed their minds some time afterwards - people in that situation shouldn't be euthanised.
At some point in this thread, I fully expect someone to start babbling about "the sanctity of life," which is totally non-existent. Life is not (and never has been) sacred, even in religion; just look at how many people kill themselves or others in the name of one god or another. If you're not religious, saying "I'm pro-life" is easier to admit than "I'm anti-choice." If ANYTHING should be held as sacred, it's the human spirit. Nothing desecrates the spirit faster than wasting away slowly, unable to speak or feed yourself or wipe your own arse. Some people will always choose to cling to life until the very last moment, and that's perfectly fine; so long as it was their choice, there is some dignity in it. But for those who can't bear to waste away like that, I think it's insulting to not be allowed to make the choice at all.
Last edited by The War Doctor : 14-06-2011 at 02:51 PM.
I watched it too, and agree that it was very moving.
I do think human euthanasia should be legal. I think being able to end the life of somebody who is suffering is a privilige. I also think that individuals suffering from an incurable and progressive illness should have the choice as to how and when they die.
I admit, though, that my view has definitely been altered by my experiences as a vet, where euthanasia is commonplace.
There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half full, say: 'This glass is half full'. And then there are those who say: 'This glass is half empty'.
The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: 'What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
I think peple do have a right to die. However i feel people should only really be 'allowed' to die if what they have is uncureable and there suffering. Illnesses such as depression... were it makes you feel like life is ***** i dont think you should be allowed to die as it can be treated though like i said people who have a disease or condition that there is no cure for should be allowed. I'm quite shocked about the 20% part though.
Thats my take on it. I wanted to watch that program .. will it be on Iplayer?
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I am in the USA and did not see this documentary, but it sure sounds interesting. I think that people should be able to choose when to die. I am not trying to start a war, but xlaurenx, I have to disagree with you on that people should only be "allowed" to die if what they have is uncureable and that there is suffering and that depression doesn't qualify as a reason. Let me explain. I have several things going on with me, all of which are are uncureable and there is suffering but none of which at this time are life threatening. See, I have been dealing with depression since I was a child, I hid it until I was in my early 20's when I had my first Major Depressive episode. I am now 38. Since then I have been on more of the antidepressant medicines out there than I can remember. Somewhere I used to keep a list of the ones I had been on so when I had been asked what ones I have been tried on I could just hand them the list, I think it was up in the 20's or more. So in my case it has been pretty much uncureable and caused a great deal of suffering.
I don't sleep much or well, so I am constant tired, I have Fibromyalgia so I have constant pain, I also have arthritis in my spine a bulging disc and a herniated disc...just to name a few things, there are more. So, I have have several things going on, and there have been many times I wish I would be "allowed" to die. But others don't see it the same way I do.
I see your point, i was debating using the depression as an example as some people can recover and some people suffer for a long time etc. So if people can recover from depression, depending on how bad it is then i feel they should be if it will always be a part of there life and to the point were there suffering then yes i think that should be allowed.
At some point in this thread, I fully expect someone to start babbling about "the sanctity of life," which is totally non-existent. Life is not (and never has been) sacred, even in religion; just look at how many people kill themselves or others in the name of one god or another. If you're not religious, saying "I'm pro-life" is easier to admit than "I'm anti-choice." If ANYTHING should be held as sacred, it's the human spirit. Nothing desecrates the spirit faster than wasting away slowly, unable to speak or feed yourself or wipe your own arse. Some people will always choose to cling to life until the very last moment, and that's perfectly fine; so long as it was their choice, there is some dignity in it. But for those who can't bear to waste away like that, I think it's insulting to not be allowed to make the choice at all.
This This THIS a hundred times this.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break
that its heart may stand in the sun,
so must you know pain.
There are only two ways in which one can live their life. One is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is.
I also think it's a sad state of affairs that the length of life takes prevalence over quality and dignity of life.
Yes, this exactly.
Though it made me feel uncomfortable that Dignitas charge £10,000 for their, for want of a better word, services.
I think this is a very tricky subject when people start to say well, you can choose to die if it's for x,y,z reason but not for this reason. For example Fifteen Dollar Eagle, someone acutely suicidal still wants to die. Someone outside of their situation can say "It will get better and you wont feel this way forever" but they cannot see that themselves. And that is why lots of suicidal people do kill themselves. So can we say that they should be excluded because they arent just weary, or terminally ill?
I'm not saying either way whether I think assisted suicide is the right thing to do in any circumstance.
Isn’t it funny how day by day nothing changes but when you look back, everything is different…
you once called your brain a hard drive, well say hello to the virus.
I saw it too, and it was really moving, and really interesting.
I think that suicide is a human right, and as a human right it should be delivered in a reliable and effective way. However I think we have a responsibility to protect the vulnerable, and in response to control-freak, I don't think euthanasia should be offered to those deemed by a psychologist to be not in a 'rational' state of mind, e.g. a major depressive episode, under the influence of drugs/alcohol etc
I saw it too, I found watching the man die was tough, and it didn't seem to be peacefully going to sleep and passing away as I'd expected. Maybe I was just being naive, I realise they can't inject the person because that's not leaving them to kill themselves. But maybe teaching them how to inject themselves might be a better way of doing it? I'm not sure, it was just hard to watch him gasp and ask for water.
I do feel though that people with terminal physical illnesses should be allowed to end their life. I can't imagine how beaten down and awful I'd feel if I no longer was able to wash/dress/feed myself or use the toilet. I'd want to know if I was going to end up in that state that I could end my days before getting to that stage. It's horrible that illness can rob you of having something resembling a dignified death.
I do like how Terry Pratchett referred to it as assisted dying rather than assisted suicide.
It's on the BBC iplayer, that's where I watched it as I don't own a television.
Though it made me feel uncomfortable that Dignitas charge £10,000 for their, for want of a better word, services.
I didn't realise that.
That makes me feel really uncomfortable too...
There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half full, say: 'This glass is half full'. And then there are those who say: 'This glass is half empty'.
The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: 'What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
^ Why? They are providing a unique service, they probably have to have really expensive insurance or drugs maybe and because this is so stupidly illegal in most places they are provinig a unique service so can really charge what they like. Now if the governments around the world would come to their senses this would become commonplace and cheaper or on the NHS.
There was a great movie made for BBC a few years ago with Julie Walters in about someeone who went to the clinic in Switzerland (I think?) to die, can't remember what it was called but it was quite good.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break
that its heart may stand in the sun,
so must you know pain.
There are only two ways in which one can live their life. One is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is.
It makes it seem commercialised, when I don't think it should be. And it's a lot of money. I imagine there are people who may want their services but are unable to because of the cost. Again, I don't think that's the way it should be.
There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half full, say: 'This glass is half full'. And then there are those who say: 'This glass is half empty'.
The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: 'What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!
I agree with Demons- I was pretty shocked at the whole death scene; thought it would be more peaceful than that.
As for the money thing, that fee did include cremation and stuff, but yeah, it still is a massive expense, along with flying to Switzerland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by effervescence
There was a great movie made for BBC a few years ago with Julie Walters in about someeone who went to the clinic in Switzerland (I think?) to die, can't remember what it was called but it was quite good.
'Twas called A Short Stay In Switzerland. It was really good too. It was a drama, but based on a true story.
From my work as a therapist, I do know that living without dignity is a serious thing. How unfeeling carers can be, and indifferent to the pain, boredom and desperation felt by these people is unthinkable.
However, as a pro-lifer, I personally think the issue is people not wanting to care, see suffering and do something to make a person's last years humane.
If I walk into a care home and all the patients are in chairs, looking at blank walls, doing nothing- I boil. I have had patients who I work with for a year and then they don't remember me- but they are not some horse or dog to put down. The challenge is to bring that twinkle to their eye, to remember who they were and respect who they are.
Weariness of life is not grounds for suicide. The body knows when its time is up and the spirit leaves of its own volition. Our challenge is to enjoy the time we are here- through the veil of depression etc.
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it’s not working for polar bears.” Arianna Huffington 2014
However, as a pro-lifer, I personally think the issue is people not wanting to care, see suffering and do something to make a person's last years humane.
I'm sure that's quite common with coma patients or anyone not sufficiently mentally present to make the choice between life or death; the family just gets fed up and pulls the plug. But is that really the issue here? If a person is suffering from an incurable disease and IS mentally capable of choosing to die (and physically capable of articulating that choice), then surely the sufferer should have the first and last say in the matter. Whatever their reasons for choosing to die, be it to end their own suffering or to end the suffering of their families (or some mix of both), then it should be up to the sufferer and nobody else.
The issue of whether or not a vegetable should be killed is another debate entirely; I admit even I'm not sure how I feel about it, given that there's really no way of knowing what they want.
I just watched it and am still sat here crying like a baby.
I am completely for assisted suicide and believe it should be legal everywhere. Everyone should have the right to chose when to die and in what way, especially those who are suffering from a terminal illness.
for me its more personal aswell, my mum has MS and it has been a nightmare of mine since she was diagnosed that one day she will want to die in that way, I'm not sure if I could be as strong as those families on the show.
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