I am a big fan of intellectual and philosophical discussions, and as I have only one more semester at uni, I will not be able to have these debates very often at all. That's why, and I was hoping others might share my enthusiasm, we could start a new subforum somewhere here for debates. Yes we have the News/ Debate forum, but it's not used for debates. It barely used for news either, when half the news articles are posted in the wrong forum (General chat).
The location of the forum would be something like this:
General Chat
>>News
>>Debate Team
>>>>Team A discussion (only viewable for members on this team)
>>>>Team B discussion (only viewable for members on this team)
>>>>Archived Debates
How it will work:
1. Moderation
There will be a team of 3 Debate Moderators (DM), which will be a permanent position, who will take care of moderating current debates, making sure the forums are prepared for debates, and getting ready for the next debate. The prep work will be cycling the new debate team members and getting the private forums setup.
*At least 1 DM would require access to forum permission masks so they could organize private team forums.
2. Team composition
There will be one debate per month. In the first week of the month, the topic would be posted with the stances that may be taken, and the number of players allowed on a team. RYL members wishing to be a team captain can then PM the DMs within the first 5 days of the month.
After the first week, the captains will be chosen and announced. I have not yet decided how teams will be picked. It would be either...
A. RYL members PM the DMs with their team preference and the DMs place them. This option is the least biased, as the DMs can make teams fairly, with selection based only on past participation.
B. RYL members pm captains directly, and the captains are in charge of their own roster. This option is more biased, as captains can pick only their friends, although DMs will have control over who is a captain.
Captains/ DMs would have one week to get the rosters set. This roster will be posted publicly.
3. Team discussion
Using the private team forums created for each debate, each team will have a week to prepare themselves with arguments and counterarguments that will arise in the debate.
4. The debate
The debate will begin on the 3rd week of the month, and depending on the size of each team will take no more than a week to finish.
The DMs will make the opening post, again stating the topic, and saying which team has the opening word.
After that, teams may begin posting arguments. Teams will alternate posts and each team member must post once. The team posting order is not important, only that all members add something to the discussion. This freedom is given so that if one member is more capable to make a counterargument than another, he or she may jump in. After all team members have posted once, Captains will make the team's final post, which summarize their whole team's position on the topic. Captains will not make counterarguments. Their job is to keep their team on track behind the scenes and to summarise at the end of the debate.
Afterwards, the DMs will vote on which team made a more convincing argument and make the final post of the debate thread in announcing the winner.
5. Resetting, archiving the debate, and setting up for the next debate
In the last few days of the month, the DMs will take care of moving the debate thread to the Archive forum. They will also take care of resetting the debate forums and teams by removing the permission masks from all team players and captains, and by deleting all the team discussion forums.
During this time they will begin setting up the hidden team forums for the next month's debate.
6. Timeline
1-5 = Captain selection
7-12 = Team selection
12-19 = Team preparation
20-27 = Debate
28-30 = DMs resetting forums for next debate.
7. Debate rules
A. Debates are for fun!! Don't take them too seriously, and never personally!!
B. Do not attack a RYL member directly for their stance.
C. Using sources to craft your argument is fine, however, do not copy and paste someone else's words! If someone else's research/ opinion helps you form your own, that's perfectly fine, just make reference of it in your debate post as you would for any school paper. A bibliography is not required, just include the source's name/ username out of courtesy.
D.
E.
work in progress
Please let me know what you guys think. I think it would be fun! :) And I'll give you cookies if you actually read it all, haha.
Last edited by Asura : 21-05-2011 at 12:56 AM.
Nous avons abrité tous les rêves du monde,
Et c'est dans le soleil que nous avons grandi.
It's obvious that you like debates from the way you presented that ;) Very well thought out so far.
Technical issues aside, though... I'm not sure if it's a good idea to implement that. Not because a debate forum in particular would be bad. But I get the feeling that RYL is already spread out quite a bit, doing more than it was originally supposed to be from what I understand.
I'm not wording this well, but I'll try. My feeling is that RYL should be focussed on support for the issues it's set out to discuss. It's already much more than that, with picture forums, general chats, discussion, reviews and recommendations, creative forums. That's not necessarily a bad thing. But people keep saying it's important that our members aren't confined to the site, that they don't use it as their only means of support (or communication in general, really).
What I'm trying to get at is that I think people should be encouraged to branch out a bit, find contacts and activities elsewhere, not only on the site, if that makes sense. Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead; a debate team forum is hardly the end of the internet as we know it ;) But maybe it would instead be a better thing, for example, to set up a debate team in real life? Maybe others would be just as interested as you are.
Sorry if that sounds too negative all in all. I like debates myself - if not in the regulated form overly so - but I think this would be a very elaborate thing when that's not what the site is about.
It's obvious that you like debates from the way you presented that ;) Very well thought out so far.
Technical issues aside, though... I'm not sure if it's a good idea to implement that. Not because a debate forum in particular would be bad. But I get the feeling that RYL is already spread out quite a bit, doing more than it was originally supposed to be from what I understand.
I'm not wording this well, but I'll try. My feeling is that RYL should be focussed on support for the issues it's set out to discuss. It's already much more than that, with picture forums, general chats, discussion, reviews and recommendations, creative forums. That's not necessarily a bad thing. But people keep saying it's important that our members aren't confined to the site, that they don't use it as their only means of support (or communication in general, really).
What I'm trying to get at is that I think people should be encouraged to branch out a bit, find contacts and activities elsewhere, not only on the site, if that makes sense. Maybe I'm thinking too far ahead; a debate team forum is hardly the end of the internet as we know it ;) But maybe it would instead be a better thing, for example, to set up a debate team in real life? Maybe others would be just as interested as you are.
Sorry if that sounds too negative all in all. I like debates myself - if not in the regulated form overly so - but I think this would be a very elaborate thing when that's not what the site is about.
Thanks for the feedback!
I can accept this criticism as being THE major flaw of the idea. However, having more content than just SI/ED support doesn't really subtract from the success of the support parts, does it? It would just be a subforum in the background, no more distracting than the arcade. But, I can see why it wouldn't be necessary for RYL.
I don't follow the support forums much, so I couldn't say whether or not they are increasing or decreasing. It is definitely true that people who have moved past SH stick around because of friends in the General forums. I don't think it's good for RYL, and maybe more things for people to do on RYL would make people stay longer than they should. You might be right that a debate forum wouldn't be best for RYL.
Lol no it's not the end of the world. I'm not begging to it, nor will I be heartbroken if it isn't added. 'Tis just an idea I'm throwing out.
I don't really have friends, nor a venue at which I could start a debate team. xP Alternatively, I've been considering starting my own online community, I just might add this to it.
Again, I appreciate the criticism.
Last edited by Asura : 21-05-2011 at 04:01 AM.
Nous avons abrité tous les rêves du monde,
Et c'est dans le soleil que nous avons grandi.
Sounds quite interesting, but I think a group of the same people would use it repeatedly which will end up with it forming yet another clique on this website.
And yes, we would need a webmaster first.
Even as the stone of the fruit must break
that its heart may stand in the sun,
so must you know pain.
There are only two ways in which one can live their life. One is as though nothing is a miracle, the other is as though everything is.
Yeah I think this is a good idea! And I don't think that it would necessarily cause cliques, as there could be a range of topics that different people would want to get involved in. I personally would love to get involved in some philosophical debates, I really hope you can get this set up. :)
If an actual forum couldn't get set up, could you adapt your ideas to specific threads instead, with certain people discussing & starting them, etc.?
I really like the idea of more properly structured debates - I just think that if we waited for the presence of a webmaster, we would be too old to go on the computer by the time it came around...
So maybe a way of doing this without a forum to start with? :)
As much as I like this idea, knowing the people who use RYL, it would be haaaaaaaaard for it to stay all civil and debate-y. A lot of people here, myself HIGHLY included, tend to be opinionated and argumentative. Which is proven by the fact that almost every thread on this Forum and Community section has turned into a blazing row.
I love this idea but I doubt it will happen here to be honest. Let me know if you do manage to set up a site or anything with this in mind as I have loved my debate classes in uni.
Sounds quite interesting, but I think a group of the same people would use it repeatedly which will end up with it forming yet another clique on this website.
And yes, we would need a webmaster first.
I never really thought that only the same people would participate. I mean I'm sure there would be some people that liked to debate and would participate often, but it was my hope there would be plenty of new faces. Also, giving the DMs control of choosing captains would let them pick new people each time, and if the DMs pick the team rosters then they can get first preference to new faces.
If there isn't much participation altogether, then yes it could be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carousel
Yeah I think this is a good idea! And I don't think that it would necessarily cause cliques, as there could be a range of topics that different people would want to get involved in. I personally would love to get involved in some philosophical debates, I really hope you can get this set up. :)
Debates wouldn't have to be all "fire starters" too. For example, if this would idea was a success, the first debate I might do would be "Which system of the body is the most important?" So in the first debate you could see a "Respiratory vs. Circulatory" debate. Basically it's a debate people can get into, but it's not something that could rock the foundation of their beliefs. This way people can take it less seriously, and less personally. :) If you get into things involving the existence of God, you have to be careful not to push too hard against someone's beliefs, but I would never rule those debates out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop! Hammer Time
If an actual forum couldn't get set up, could you adapt your ideas to specific threads instead, with certain people discussing & starting them, etc.?
I really like the idea of more properly structured debates - I just think that if we waited for the presence of a webmaster, we would be too old to go on the computer by the time it came around...
So maybe a way of doing this without a forum to start with? :)
That's an interesting idea! There could be another subforum within the Debate forum for open debate discussions that any RYL member can start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow White.
Theoretically a forum could be added without Harley, it would just be really bad ethics ^_^
Yeahhhh I agree. No worries. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taliesin
As much as I like this idea, knowing the people who use RYL, it would be haaaaaaaaard for it to stay all civil and debate-y. A lot of people here, myself HIGHLY included, tend to be opinionated and argumentative. Which is proven by the fact that almost every thread on this Forum and Community section has turned into a blazing row.
There is that possibility with debates, especially when talking about politics or religion. There would have to be a disclaimer before all debates saying that it's just for fun and not to take it too seriously. The DMs are also there to make sure a player does not harass another for his/ her beliefs. And a player could be allowed to leave at any time if they aren't feeling comfortable. In my opinion, having your beliefs challenged can actually make them stronger! I don't dislike having to debate about things like religion.
Here's another fun idea that might relieve some of the debate tension:
I thought it might be fun if for some debates the rosters would be a blind pick. The DMs would just randomly assign people to a team. In this kind of debate some people might be forced to debate /against/ their beliefs and see things from the opposite perspective, which is really quite eye opening and in my experience makes you more understanding/ tolerant of others' beliefs. Not everyone might like that though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_name
I love this idea but I doubt it will happen here to be honest. Let me know if you do manage to set up a site or anything with this in mind as I have loved my debate classes in uni.
Thank you! You bet. :)
Thanks all for the comments.
Nous avons abrité tous les rêves du monde,
Et c'est dans le soleil que nous avons grandi.
Love the idea, but I think the amount of extra work it would require of the moderators would be a tad unfair. Maybe having a specific thread within news and debate would be an idea?
'Never forget what you are. The rest of the world will not. Wear it like armor, and it can never be used to hurt you.'
['There is only one thing we say to death. Not today'.']
'We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell.’ – Oscar Wilde
‘It’s hard to dance with the devil on your back.’ Sydney Carter
Love the idea, but I think the amount of extra work it would require of the moderators would be a tad unfair. Maybe having a specific thread within news and debate would be an idea?
tyty. Ideally there would be 3 new mods that only have power over the debate forum, so it wouldn't be adding work for the current moderating team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleeding Angel
Apparently it is :P
Ehehe. I c wut u did thar!
Nous avons abrité tous les rêves du monde,
Et c'est dans le soleil que nous avons grandi.
I'm sorry I have nothing useful to add, but I just wanted to say I think this is a cool idea, and if we did start debate threads, I'd be interested in participating. I'd feel a lot less nervous about airing views if I knew the responses were going to be civil, and I stood a chance of learning something or making friends out of it. :P
How would you feel about possibly creating a room every now and again in chat for debate?That way anyone harassing members about their beliefs etc could be kicked straight away, I wouldnt mind modding that.x
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
I would so get in on that. I think it's actually quite a good idea. Maybe members could put forward debate ideas? (If you've already said that, I apologise and admit I didn't read the whole thing, I just saw the word 'debate' and ran with it.) Then members could actually get things off of their chests that would have usually got 'Can we please move on?' from mods. Which is highly annoying when you have this AMAZING point to make (civil argument or not) and get threatened with kicking should you make this point.
Yeah.
I'm gonna tap him like a maple tree. I'm gonna search him for some syrups. I'm gonna be having sex with him.
Chat debate is a great idea. :D Could post the date and the topic a few days in advance to give people a chance to gather information. We could even do member voting on topics, like Choley suggested.
