I was wondering how 'professionals' can section you if you refuse to see the crisis team for a Mental Health Act assessment? This is a hypothetical question.
Can a CPN put you on a holding section whilst in the community or just in hospital? I know you have to be in a public place for the police to 136 you. Do buildings count as a public place?
If professionals are very concerned about you, and want to assess you, they have various powers that will allow them to do this.
Under section 135, there are two grounds on which an AMHP can obtain a warrant to enter your home. The first is if you are living alone and not caring for yourself. The second is if you are cared for by someone else, but not being kept ‘under proper care or control’. The police also have the power to remove, from a public place to a place of safety (under section 136), someone who is suffering from a mental disorder and is in need of care or control, in order to have them assessed.
From the Mind website
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
This isn't going to end up like Stanpy's thread is it?
I take it you have googled it?
I reckon it is probably one of those grey areas and they would send the police/ambulance to your home and "persuade" you to go with them.
Just to clarify, by buildings...I meant inside of buildings. I couldn't find what I was looking for on google but am on pay as you go internet at the moment so didn't look that thoroughly. I asked out of curiosity because of a remark my CPN made about 'not being able to force people to see the crisis team except to have a MHA assessment'. I was trying to figure out how that worked is all. Thanks for the info.
tbh in my experience, they tend to play a little fast and loose with the rules especially if the police are called as they are more aggresive. Well that's my experience anyway. I have a friend who was arrested to get her out of her property and then put on a 136 when she stepped, it shouldn't happen but it does.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
If it's inside your own house/place of abode, I believe it's a section 135, but as far as I'm aware the police can't come in without an approved social worker - might be worth researching 135s.
If it's a public building, it would be a section 136.
This isn't going to end up like Stanpy's thread is it?
I take it you have googled it?
I reckon it is probably one of those grey areas and they would send the police/ambulance to your home and "persuade" you to go with them.
What do you mean my thread? Which one? How did that end up?
... o_O
And yeah to be 136'd you just have to be in a place which "the public has access to", but that doesn't include your back garden and stuff like that. They need the Magistrates Order (135) otherwise.
The Police aren't allowed to coax you out of your property then 136 you. That's illegal/unethical, as the person has to be "found" in a public place.
im really sorry your having such a hard time.If your CPN is considering trying to force you to see the crisis team for an MHA is there anyway you think you could get yourself to do it voluntarily?i know its not ideal if its not what you want to be doing but at the end of the day surely its got to be better than the possibility of ended up detained and with even less freedom and say in things.
In answer to your question i dont know much about sections.Its never happened to me.i have been threatened before including by the police a few times [though luckily they decided not to] but they said on one occasion if they were going to [cos they found me at home after an OD, i wouldnt go to hosp]then they would have to take me from my home to the police station on that occassion to get me assessed first.Does that happen??
Off topic and also dont want to take this thread away from the thread starter as know you are really struggling right now and i am so so sorry for that but what people have said has also raised a question for me.i think your all right but it just made me think of something.
One other time when the police thought id overdosed after being contacted by others they broke into my property - i had overdosed but wasnt there as i was staying with a friend.i assume they broke in cos they knew life may be at risk but i wondered if they needed permission for that then and also if that means they should have brought an ASW with them etc?Obviously i dont know the answer to those things cos i wasnt there but just wondered cos people were saying they cant come into your home unless they have a warrant....but maybe they can if its a dire emergency.They did with me.They have a number of times but thats the only time someone has called them and i wasnt there to answer and they forced their way in.
Anyway back to the threadstarter i hope you found the information you need.Sorry i probably havent been much help.
xx xx
i do not always manage to be around but i wish you all the very best - love and luck to you all!
Kath- my CPN is not trying to make me see the crisis team for a MHA assessment at the moment. She wanted me to see the crisis team over the weekend and when I refused she set certain stipulations, one of which I don't think I can keep to, and said if I didn't keep to them and turn up to my appointment on Monday and stick to the agreements then she would have to take 'certain steps'. She said she couldn't force me to see the crisis team unless it was to have a MHA assessment. I was basically wondering how they could force you to even have that. I've been 136'd on two occasions (in Coventry- like Stanpy says she was, but that is another matter), hence why I mentioned knowing about them a little. I don't want to see the crisis team and I am not, under any circumstances being put back in hospital. I need to know how to avoid it basically,
I live in rented accommodation so technically it is not MY private property and I also couldn't find clear guidelines about rights etc. I have a vague idea now though.
I am sure that some CPN's now have the training to section people until a proper assessment can be done by two doctors and a ASW......but by the sounds of it your CPN can't do this.
If your CPN is very concerned for your safety they can call the police and get you taken to hospital for an assessment, I guess this is when the section 135 and 136 can be used, but they will try and persuade you (maybe not very hard thought), then section you or take you voluntarily....
Ah sorry if i misunderstood some of what you were trying to say there re your CPN and the crisis team etc.And im glad your now clearer on your rights.
Yep, i suppose i should have added [or even given thought to the fact really] that when i was threatened with being taken to the police station to be assessed i technically wasnt in private property either [i was in supported housing].
Sorry for any confusion.Well done for finding out more about what you needed to and sorry for the delay in replying further too.
xx xx
i do not always manage to be around but i wish you all the very best - love and luck to you all!
