The difference between reality and nastiness.....

[Alone and Scared]

Hey guys,

I've seen a few posts on different threads in different forums stating that people are being 'harsh' or 'nasty'.

I think there is a big difference, although quite a fine line, between nastiness and someone giving someone a reality check.... For example, the replies on here that have actually been most helpful have been from a couple of people who really make me think and question what I'm doing and what I want from life. Some people might think their replies are harsh, and at the time I was a little bit like 'Oh!' but actually, they really cared and took the time to reply; and they also were the most helpful.

I think it's really important to make sure we don't fall into nastiness; but I think it's also really important to respect that people have different ways of approaching things and just because someone doesn't say 'Oh love you, hugs, hugs', it doesn't mean they aren't being supportive and it doesn't mean they are being nasty.

I don't know what you guys think, but I just think it needs to be brought up and looked at.

Alone and Scared.

[Snow White.]

There is certainly merit in being able to (appropriately) challenge some views, especially when mental illness/self esteem/eating disorders and many factors can alter our perception, a reality check can be what someone needs at times.

For instance: if I say that my psychiatrist is an idiot for putting me in hospital, he's just trying to get rid of me, I'm not going to go it's not going to help, and I am adamant that he is doing it out of personal spite... then to have someone go "have you considered it from his point of view? he is likely concerned for your safety and took the right actions in putting you in hospital", it's not in line with my views, but is valid, and thoughtful as sometimes we cannot consider other perspectives when we're so upset.

Got to be honest, that was a bad example!, but I know what I mean :D

The line is fine between helpful and harsh, I think you've just got to watch how you say it. Nobody likes hearing things that conflict with their views but if you present it sensibly it can be really helpful.

[Alone and Scared]

Yes, and also - I don't think that you can be very supportive unless you challenge someones' views sometimes as the views need to be challenged in order to recover or move on. x

[Too Shy]

I also agree. :) I would rather someone was honest with me and disagreed than just told me what I want to hear even though it wasn't right, personally.

It is completely possible to disagree with someone without being rude or nasty, even if that person doesn't like hearing it at the time. Sometimes being too close to a situation makes things difficult, and someone else is just better able to say 'Well have you looked at it from this point of view?'. There's a difference between saying 'Ok, I don't actually agree with that because [whatever], maybe you could try this instead...' and 'OMG you're so stupid for thinking that, grow up and stop being pathetic' [for example].

Sometimes the hardest things to hear are the things that help most, because when you're stuck in the way you feel it can be very difficult to see another way of doing things.

[The One Who]

As someone who lies on the blunt end of the spectrum, I have noticed this. To be frank, I'm tired of seeing myself or others be told we are being harsh for not agreeing with the consensus of 'oh that's horrible, you're right, *hugs*'. Being text it can be hard to read the tone of the post, but generally if someone has taken the effort to reply to a thread it is meant in a supportive way.

[Caru y Nos]

Just to note: I've had quite a few people thank me and have been extremely grateful for the fact that I, as a person, do tend to question things a lot and remain able to look at things from the perspective of others. It really does seem to help people in the right context, in many cases it seems to develop the basis of understanding. Those accusing people of being harsh, unfair, and the such like seems to be a recent phenomenon on here and probably just another passing fad - or so I hope. Something else I've noticed appear around here upon talking to people one-to-one is the over-exaggeration of their rights. As in, a couple of people seem to have the viewpoint that they have the right to say whatever they like, however they like, and then also have the right not to acknowledge the viewpoint of others. I'm not explaining this very well, but the simplest way to put this seems to be that there seems to be an increased number of people who seem to feel that their own personal rights include being able to infringe upon that of others. To me, this is the only issue I've seen, even if it's not publicised so much.

[griddlebone]

I think theres a very very fine line between being blunt and being over the top, but its hard to gauge as everyones view on these things is different. As much as I like seeing people give responses that challenge opinion and that give the OP an honest response I think that sometimes the way its worded makes it come across as on the side of nasty.
Which is a shame because then its possible that the OP will get offended and not take on board a piece of advice because of the way its been put across.

I agree that a reality check is sometimes the most helpful thing but can be unhelpful to someone with very low self esteem as they may see it as criticism and ultimately make them feel worse.

RYL is quite bubble wrapped, with all the rules etc. and that can shut people off from reality so sometimes hearing the truth can be hard on here.

[Bleeding Angel]

Sometimes people cant handle or dont want to accept the truth so in turn the ops can get nasty because u arnt mollycodling them.

I often struggle with replying to posts sometimes because my advice can tend to come across as harsh, but I honestly don't mean it to come across like that. I try to be honest because that is my way of helping. I've been on the receiving end of good honest advice, and it was hard to hear, but after I thought about if for a while, it was the best advice I have ever got. I can see how that sort of approach might not be helpful for some people though. Lol, I have no idea what I'm trying to say. O.o

[Stellata]

There're ways of conveying an understanding someone's situation, and being challenging. It's not always an 'easy' balance to get, but it is possible. I've actually seen it a lot round here.

One thing that we do need to be aware of is that many people here [and I count myself in this] have been mercilessly criticised by others many times in their lives, and now hence criticise themselves. Being sensitive to that, if you're in possession of that info, is helpful.
The Fritz Perls approach [go find him on YouTube! Confrontational 60s/70s avant garde then psychotherapist.] doesn't work for everyone, or for those it does help, it might not help all the time.

[griddlebone]

I agree Katie :) Its not always the best approach, it works for some people, but sometimes what people need isnt a blunt response, they need a bit of bubble wrapping :) xx

I agree, sometimes people do need a bit of bubble wrapping, but it's hard to decide whether that is the case with every member. In my case, if I give honest advice to someone and it's not what they need, it is an unfortunate mistake on my part, not a display of nastiness =D

[Heidi Tiger]

It sounds silly, but I think you can be quite challenging to people, without coming across as rude so long as you are really careful with your language. Even just adding something like "I'm thinking of you", or "I hope things improve soon" or being less blunt such as "Perhaps you should do x" instead of "You must do x if you want to get better". It's something I struggle with, finding the appropriate words and language to convey the message in the right tone, but I think it's worth it. After all if someone thinks you are rude or being mean they are probably less likely to take your advice than if it can be presented in a more palatable fashion.

[sparklyshoes]

I know this sounds bad, but this is why I have always preferred Veterans Corner and never really sought support from any other areas of the boards on a whole. I prefer to be told things straight, or at least to have an element of a challenging nature at times, rather than " :( *hugs*" "Oh that's tough chick, you're the best!" stuff like that, I really don't find helpful and I felt that Vets were able to provide more honest and real help. I'm not saying other parts of the board are useless but personally I've always found this more helpful.

[Stellata]

A bit of gentle affection AND a real honest challenge can be done together. Spoonful of sugar and that, like Heidi says.

[Bleeding Angel]

But theres still the problem of why just go *aww hugs nothings your fault*. I remember somone posted saying how bad thier phychaitirs was and they where so unhlepful and didnt help and how pointless it all was. People just said well its up to you to change things, ask to see someone else ect, all it was met with was no cant wont then an whole load of abuse because not everyone was telling them how it wasnt thier fualt and they couldnt change anything.

But sometimes no matter how hard it is to hear, you have to be told the truth and some people take it harshly because all they want is people to feel for them.

[Stellata]

Which is a human need.
It's not always met, but it is a need nonetheless, to feel understood.

[Bleeding Angel]

Im not disagreeing with you katie, but if people just want to be felt for and want hugs they should say so, some people hate doing that and would rather give advice, but you cant seem to do right nowadays because you always end up upsetting someone.

[griddlebone]

I still think theres an inbetween between sugar coated and just being rude and i think a lot of time it oversteps the mark just a little bit.You can tell someone something without being horrible.