Atmosphere about mental health problems/treatment.
I know I'm being oversensitive, I'll probably delete this and it's not like I'm really fully active on RYL now, but.
I'm 16.
I have mental health problems.
I'll shortly be admitted to hospital.
Does my age mean that I'm just making it up? Does the fact I need more support make me immature? I haven't been sectioned or had stitches. Does that mean my pain is less? I haven't made multiple suicide attempts. Does that mean I'm not as bad as I'm making out? I actually tell my psychiatrist or psychologist when I'm struggling. Does that make me attention seeking?
Taking a step back from RYL for a while has made me realise how things like this could come across, especially to young people suffering with genuine mental health problems.
I don't like whiny threads so I don't know why I'm making one - but I honestly can't think of any way to change the competitive atmosphere. The attitudes of professionals and the attitude that seems to pervade the site (related to mental health problems/illnesses/treatments) are miles apart.
So why is it? Are we trying to be something we're not? Am I just being bitchy?
I don't know what it is for everyone. I think for me, it's validation. I don't think I feel (any more) that I need to compete with other members on this site, because I finally do get the support I need from my team. But sometimes I read things on here that send me to an almost flashback state of times when I was really ill but professionals were not forthcoming with support. Especially when people are "taken seriously" and "sectioned/put in hospital" (which have always been two that seemed to equate in my mind, even though they're not necessarily true).
I don't think we can put things into boxes, but I fear that we do. No, I don't think being 16 and being admitted to hospital makes you immature or making it up. Nor do I think someone who is older and never been admitted is less ill than someone who is 16 and been in hospital is. It's too hard to categorise like that, but I recognise that it happens.
I know that when I was 16 I personlly was very immature also also very ill. I was never admitted to hospital. Now I'm almost 23 and (a little more) mature, still struggling a lot, and have a lot more support. I've never really been sectioned - not because I'm less ill but simply because I've got a team who's good at persuading me to go voluntarily, and whom I work closely with, and with trust.
I don't know how we change the competitive atmopshere either. It's really worrying, because things like sectioning seem almost normalised here. They're not okay and not commonplace events as they seem here but it feels like sometimes people are getting more and more drastic until they're the "illest of the illest". I'm only glad I pretty much stopped self harming before I found this site, too, otherwise I think things could have been even worse for me.
Also I wonder if people's mental health seriousness is becoming their identity.
The problem with sites such as RYL is that there is an extent of 'normalising' of such things. Some people feel that they need to 'go one better' in order to get the support here. We need to realise that someone who gets x amount of stitches is not necessarily suffering anymore than someone who doesn't need stitches.
There are some members who seem to refuse to get help. If you aren't going to make an effort to help yourself then why should anyone else? Maybe that's harsh, but it's true. We are all here for a reason, we're not trained professionals.
I think it's important to point out that age doesn't equate with maturity. And needing support definately doesn't equate with immaturity either. Telling your team when you are struggling is what you are meant to do, that isn't attention seeking. What I would see as immature would be refusing to cooperate with your team, lying to them, playing with them and deliberately worrying people. That is something I have noticed around here, that and people actively trying to get worse. Neither of those things would I equate with you Chels.
There is definately a competitiveness on this site, however I do also think there is some backlash against that. There are members pointing out when things are unhelpful and competitiveness and I see that as a very positive thing. Ultimately this site is only as helpful as it's members are so I think we all have a responsibility to speak out against the things that they find uncomfortable.
I just want to say that you are an incredible person - You are more mature and facing up to things than I think I will ever be - and I have a lot (lot) more years of being around than you. You are managing to do something that I didn't do for a long while and I think you are a brave strong person.
I admire your maturity and honesty and you deserve ((hugs))!
I completely agree with what has already been said.
Although I have no idea what the cure is, or whether there actually is one, I think that you have helped that (and everyone else who has done threads like this/commented) by raising awareness of the issue and therefore making it less 'normalised'.
There is a majoy competitive element to RYL, and I think that it is a massive hinder to people.
On every single board, in every single Mental Health issue I can think about; people are competing. Whether it's how many times they've OD'ed, how long they've been in the services, how long they've SH'ed for, how many times they've been in hospital or sectioned - and it really isn't a helpful thing for anyone.
It also worries me as, as you have said, people feel they need to do 'more' to be worth helping.
There are comments on peoples' age and all sorts, but age doesn't mean anything - not really. Yes, there are some teens on here that SH that will go through it during teens and break away from it, and be happy and healthy for the rest of their lives. There are also people on here who are severely poorly and will probably be in the system many years; but age has nothing to do with that.
Don't delete the thread, you have very good points. x
-“And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom.” Anais Nin-
Allie, Mutt, Great Grandma, Hope and Humbug. I love you and miss you all. xx
Something I want to add is just because to haven't had stitches it doesn't mean you haven't got problems. The size of your wounds does not equate to the emotion behind them. Also most SH'ers in the world never need stitches, they don't get that bad. You may read threads where people have gotten stitches but nowhere near everyone here has. I haven't and I SHd a lot, I would say I've never had stitches but doctors still noticed, I still had problems, people still see the effects of my SH and ask me about it; stitches and how big your cuts are does not equal anything and often on sites can lead to competitiveness and so worsen behaviour.
Something I want to add is just because to haven't had stitches it doesn't mean you haven't got problems. The size of your wounds does not equate to the emotion behind them. Also most SH'ers in the world never need stitches, they don't get that bad. You may read threads where people have gotten stitches but nowhere near everyone here has. I haven't and I SHd a lot, I would say I've never had stitches but doctors still noticed, I still had problems, people still see the effects of my SH and ask me about it; stitches and how big your cuts are does not equal anything and often on sites can lead to competitiveness and so worsen behaviour.
This is very important to me especially when I was practising harm minimisation as I found it difficult on here to think that I was no longer harming enough as people are getting stitches left, right and centre. Just because I managed to lessen the severity of my harming did not make my problems lessen or less serious than others.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
I only joined this site a few days ago and have already noticed the competitive atmoshpere you have highlighted. I don't really like it and it has deterred me from posting because I didn't think people would read what I had to say with me not being a well known poster.
As for maturity and age I don't think that has much of an aspect in it. When it comes down to it if you need help you need help.
Please don't be deterred. You will find different threads on different boards have different feel to them. I like to think that the bpd thread currently is very much pro supporting people making positive changes. It is certainly helping me. Take a look around and don't be afraid to post, things are not always as they first seem.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
Please don't be deterred. You will find different threads on different boards have different feel to them. I like to think that the bpd thread currently is very much pro supporting people making positive changes. It is certainly helping me. Take a look around and don't be afraid to post, things are not always as they first seem.
Thank you for a positive reply. I myself am not a self harmer so I feel a bit of an outsider on this forum but I will go have a look at the bpd board as you suggested. Thank you!
I also meant to say in my first reply but forgot. Drama I wish you all the best in hospital and I hope it helps :smile:
I think people get caught up in all manner of unhealthy cycles in a bid to get their real struggles validated. Validated by themselves, by RYL, by mental health professionals, by other patients they encounter etc.
As such it is not really competitiveness per se.
It is extremely dangerous however, for the individuals and for the community. Even when something like sectioning comes, it doesn't ever address the original issue, still less the need for one's struggles to be validated.
Co-operating with your team is a VERY good thing. It is what you are supposed to do. Getting better takes a lot of hard work and a very large part of that is co-operating with professionals and learning how to articulate what is going on instead of acting out. THAT shows maturity.
To me, if a person is fighting to get good help, and tries sensible suggestions to improve their health, it would usually suggest to me that their pain is more intolerable than those who shun help and allow themselves to get into real messes.
However, comparisons are dangerous as nobody has all the information about anybody else, many illnesses comprise an element of self-punishing or feelings of being too worthless to get help. Moreover many have unhelpful or even detrimental professional support so even when they fight to get well their health deteriorates to serious levels.
Personally what I have found is that because my struggles seemed so piffling next to those of many members who had been denied help, it took me a long time to realise that help was necessary. Am pretty sure things would never have got so entrenched had I got help years ago. I can't be the only one in this position.
I think that we all need to be mindful to look to our own pain and how best to heal it, and to stop looking at what other people are or are not doing.
XXX
^This^
I hope to get better at the last paragraph especially.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
Just to add something from an ED point-of-view. In a lot of cases people are not taken seriously unless they are of a dangerously low weight. Obviously this changes with each area, but for many there is little support available. However, I feel that ED board has taken a lot of steps to combat the 'competitive nature' of these illness, with all posters getting some level of support.
SH is a much more 'visible' action though, and I have found that doctors are more likely to take people seriously. People can't get help or support if they don't see a health professional, and RYL should never be a replacement for that.
I have seen this competitivness of "look how ill i am" and i must admit i think i have done that to some degree, not intentionally and not towards others (or at least i dont think so) but i think my brain feels my feelings need to be validiated and i know it isnt a good thing and i am working towards stopping it, it is quite a hard thing as the feelings of my pain needing to be recognised is deeply imbedded but i am trying and i appologise if it has ever effected anyone!
x
I think it's important to point out that age doesn't equate with maturity. And needing support definately doesn't equate with immaturity either. Telling your team when you are struggling is what you are meant to do, that isn't attention seeking.
^^ I agree
I believe that too often people compare themselves to other people. I think for most people this isn't competitive behaviour but rather self devaluing behaiour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morrigan
However, comparisons are dangerous as nobody has all the information about anybody else, many illnesses comprise an element of self-punishing or feelings of being too worthless to get help. Moreover many have unhelpful or even detrimental professional support so even when they fight to get well their health deteriorates to serious levels.
I also think that competition is very normal and healthy in the right context and there will always be competition everywhere. Competition on RYL doesn't necessarilly have to mean damaging behaviour but can mean more active supporting and recovery. It's a societal trait and will be virtually impossible to stub out.
At one point I was nervous about posting because I compared myself to others and thought of myself as less needy. However I didn't, and don't, look at those who are struggling a lot (e.g. taking lots of ODs, needing lots of stitches, having many admissions into hospital) ans competitive or attention seeking. Perhaps they are but I think who am I to make that judgement about someone I don't even know.
Anyway...
Drama, I hope you get the help and support you need during your admission
I'm 17 & I have multiple MH problems for as long as I can remember in my life.
Age should be considered, however, it should not instantly mean you are or are not *so and so* or you do or do not have *so and so*.
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