WHAT DO I DO!? Its wearing me down, im sure its against the rules right? Yet why is it there are so many and people tell you even though they're not willing to help themselves? You give them everything on the planet and nothing will help.. its hurtful to the members on the recieving end and on a personal basis i end up stressing and beating myself up for letting yet another person die at my will.. i know its stupid but i have a lot of personal issues over suicide and have gone through too many so i know thats my own issue but what my point is that i know so many members who probably have to deal with it and it often happens through pms/ whispers so mods dont know its going on. I dont know really its just something thats stressed me for ages but i've tried to calm down about it but its happening almost daily for me now.. which in all honesty is a bit much. I just dont know what to do about it because i feel guilty if i log out when i know someones calling out to save their life but at the same time they refuse help..
"It is not the strength of the body that counts, but the strength of the spirit"
-J.R.R Tolkien
It is against the rules, for precisely the issues that you have with the threats, it's worrying, emotionally draining and really just not fair on others.
Please do save the log and report it, even if it is via whisper. We mods do take action against suicide threats.
Don't feel bad about logging out or placing someone on ignore or saying "sorry I can't deal with this right now". You have to put your own needs first and that's not selfish, or wrong.
Feel free to PM me or any other mod if you have any logs/want to discuss this further.
Take care
xxx
If you want anything to happen, you will have to log it. It's not fair to you or anyone else. They may be struggling but the way they reach out for help is not the right. Its hurtful and unfair and they need to understand that. And yes, it is against the rules but the mods cant do anything unless you log it and send it to them.
You are also allowed to tell them that you don't think it's fair of them to do it. You are trying to help them and you should be able to without them making you feel guilty.
I agree with you that its a huge problem. I've had quite a few people leaving chat saying that they are going to kill themselves because of me. No one ever has, they are back the day after. Whether we like it or not, a lot of people use it to get attention and pity or as a poor way of reaching out. There are better and more helpful ways of reaching out for help. Unfortunately, it seems that a lot of people here, think they have to threat with suicide to get the support they need and I think thats definitely something that needs to be changed.
You will have to do what is best for yourself though and dont risk your own health because you are trying to support someone. Supporting in public, as Irene suggested, could be an idea as there will be more witnesses and some might be less likely to threat with suicide, as they know its against the rules. But you need to remember that if they really really want to kill themselves, they will do it and it will not be your fault at all. You would have done what you could. It is their decision, not yours.
Den fuldkomne kærlighed,
Kan ikke eksistere blandt ufuldkomne
Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
If you can bounce high, bounce for her too,
Till she cry "Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!"
Thomas Parke D’Invilliers
Please refrain from all forms of emotional blackmail at all times.
Members at RYL are willing to help and offer all of the support and advice that they possibly can at all times, and so resorting to emotionally blackmailing them, either through making threats to hurt yourself or suggesting in any way that they are the reason you intend to / have hurt yourself, cannot be tolerated under any circumstances. It is always much better to be frank and honest about the support you need and, not only am I sure you will find it much more productive, it is likely to go down much better with the community.
For example: "if you don't do X, I am going to cut / burn myself", " because you said such and such, I am going to commit suicide."
Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
If you can bounce high, bounce for her too,
Till she cry "Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!"
Thomas Parke D’Invilliers
I know this sounds really harsh but if it is against the rules, do people get infraction points for it?
Also, I want to admit that I have been guilty of telling people that I am going to hurt myself or put myself at risk (not kill myself) and always feel terrible afterwards because I have been on the receiving end of such threats and it is awful. Sorry!
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
People can and have got infraction points for it, however we do tend to take things on a case by case basis because obviously sometimes people can be in a really bad place and just not think about what they are doing, but many people have gotten warnings over it and then repeat offenders get points.
I don't think you need to feel guilty Carrie, after all you can't change what you have done and I think very many of us here (myself included) have ended up doing this at some time or another. I think rather than making people feel guilty we want to encourage them to think differently.
It's like what I find quite interesting is I always used to tell professionals "I want to kill myself by x" or "I'm going to self harm in Y fashion" and all they could adress was the risk. Whereas now I'm a lot more "I'm struggling and I'm feeling z emotion" and I get way more useful support now, by talking about and working through my emotions, rather than just talking about the physical urges.
I don't think you need to feel guilty Carrie, after all you can't change what you have done and I think very many of us here (myself included) have ended up doing this at some time or another. I think rather than making people feel guilty we want to encourage them to think differently.
It's like what I find quite interesting is I always used to tell professionals "I want to kill myself by x" or "I'm going to self harm in Y fashion" and all they could adress was the risk. Whereas now I'm a lot more "I'm struggling and I'm feeling z emotion" and I get way more useful support now, by talking about and working through my emotions, rather than just talking about the physical urges.
Thanks :)
The latter paragraph is really important. I have seen some members who are really skilled in leading a person to to do this and then it helps de-escalate things and allows others to help support also.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
Yes it is against the rules but as Heidi has said, the infraction points or warnings goes on a case by case basis.
Best thing you can do is get in touch with the moderators and report the behaviour, also if you are stressed and feel you cannot deal with it, why not be gentle to yourself and perhaps suggest the member speaks to the supporters - or even you could, too.
Also the rule for posting suicide threats & notes is also this one, which clarifies the reasons WHY they are not permitted:
Quote:
Please do not make suicide threats or 'goodbye notes'. While this might seem harsh, suicide threats are extremely unfair on a website full of caring people who have no way of helping you, no way of knowing you're safe and no way of letting anyone know. Of course, people will express their doubts about life and living, but goodbye threats cannot be permitted; it is much more beneficial to ask for support before you get to that stage, since a true 'goodbye note' wouldn't be looking for response anyway. This also applies to any threats made regarding any way to harm oneself.
For example : "this is my last post ever, by the time you read this I will be gone", "pills are gone ... feeling really sleepy ... cant do it anymore ... sorry."
I can completely understand the worries of the OP.
I have also been in this position and I've sat up all night worrying that I should be able to do something, I should be there for them whatever time. I will be, of course, because I care about them.
In the same breath, I would so much rather they talked to me than do anything to harm themselves. I would much rather have a phone call at 2am than wake up to find that they have hurt themselves, or done damage. I always make that clear, and state 'Ring me, no matter what'..... Because I would rather they called me. xx
-“And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom.” Anais Nin-
Allie, Mutt, Great Grandma, Hope and Humbug. I love you and miss you all. xx
I know what you mean Irene, but it's different when it's someone you have a real friendship with, than if it's someone with whom your "relationship" is nothing but them talking about committing suicide, and you trying to talk them out of it. With the latter sort, I would recommend reporting them and putting them on ignore. When it's a close friend who is having a difficult time it's quite different, but everything varies from individual to individual.
report, report, report. if people are feeling suicidal, WE CANNOT HELP THEM. if possible tell them that we can't help them, they really need to report it to the police/hospital and get proper help. it's not that we don't want to. it's just that...well...if you're suicidal you need help that an internet forum CANNOT give you and it's draining to the other members. i've had three friends (in person) tell me they are suicidal. (one was a kid in high school who i did not know.)
i take all threats seriously and tell someone who can help (in the case of the high school kid, a teacher who i know at his school. in the case of my friend, our editor.in the case of the other, he attempted before saying anything to me.) i can't do that with people on RYL because i do not know their names or where they live, and i cannot have the burden of someone's life on my hands.
Part of me thinks that when you join a forum like this, this is something that you are going to have to face. There are people on here with severe mental health problems, and at times, there are going to be people who are desperately suicidal. You join a forum like this taking into account that people are vulnerable and struggling.
It comes with the territory!!!!!
-“And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom.” Anais Nin-
Allie, Mutt, Great Grandma, Hope and Humbug. I love you and miss you all. xx
I am guilty of this. Not because i want to make the other person feel bad but because i am looking for someone to give me a bit of hope, even just talking to me about how i feel and how i can solve things can help.
But yeah, i can understand being on the receiving end is not nice, and its no-one elses responsibility except my own.
It's unfair on people but Ive done it before so I think based on that, it's difficult to understand how wrong it is to put other people in that situation when you are feeling so bad. It's hard to be logical when in that much distress.
Admittedly, this issue has made it difficult for me to support now, and on quite a few occasions, when I've asked for a conversation to be in main room (so everyone can help), certain ones have given up.
I agree that suicide threats shouldn't be allowed on RYL - but the point is, to me, if someone is going to do it, they are going to do it. I don't post for support when I'm intending on doing something and don't want to be told otherwise. What's the point? It wastes people's energy, and to be frank, when one is seriously considering hurting themselves/committing suicide, someone on the end of the computer can't really do much at all. They can listen, they can encourage the person to get help, but they can't provide therapy or medication or move them to a safe place.
I know this sounds harsh and cruel and whatever, but...
Its too much, people have other stuff on their minds too and its harsh to say 'I'm going to kill myself and theres nothing you can do.' It just creates more anguish
I think that as people have said it is a really difficult subject. I know that on here before I have said things, particularly in my rant thread that have lead to people being extremely worried, and at one point have led them to calling the police. Now, this sounds awful, and I feel ridiculously guilty for what I put people through, more than is true, but it meant that I am here now, if it was not for some ridiculous stuff that I had written here, I wouldn't be.
I'm not saying at all that it right, and yes, it is an horrific position for someone to be in, but sometimes I think when people are that down they don't realise quite how bad what they are writing/saying seems. If it seems like the logical option, people may not see how illogical it is.
I guess what I'm saying is that yes, it is horrible, and shouldn't happen, but it always has and will continue to do so.
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Make us all feel wonderful. We'll never forget."
Part of me thinks that when you join a forum like this, this is something that you are going to have to face. There are people on here with severe mental health problems, and at times, there are going to be people who are desperately suicidal. You join a forum like this taking into account that people are vulnerable and struggling.
It comes with the territory!!!!!
I completely agree and its something i take into consideration all the time and i mean i've been guilty of it myself even though i tried not to i was alone so i can empathise with people in the situation but then again i think its a two way street as the person joining is also in pain/ill themselves but what im actually talking about is that every single conversation i have is pretty much them threatening suicide or have already acted but will refuse to get help and then im badgered consistantly being reminded of it. If i leave chat im pm'ed. I have rang the police once which terrified the heck out of me and then the member hated me and i got a load of abuse for saving their life. A lot of problems is my own personal issue as i've been blamed for three suicides and have grieved a further two in the past year and i cant bear the idea of having another persons life in my hands it drives me to distraction and makes me very triggered i know they're not to bear that but its something i find very difficult because i dont want to lose anyone else so i do everything in my being to stop it from happening and in the end i fail. I go into chat days on end hoping they'd return and eventually they do claiming they got help but then it starts all over again. I get quite a few at a time sometimes its sort of expected of me.. im not allowed to need support sort of. Im sorry for causing all this trouble at the moment i've had a drastic change and am going through alot myself having not recently wound up in hospital myself... i've got a lot on my back and pain is included in that so its made me more vulnerable and hard to deal with it. Its just my problem is people dont want to know when im struggling im only allowed to support and accept that *shrugs* its how it is but i didnt want to cause arguments or any problems i just wanted to know what to do as i cant hack much more of it its putting me off coming online when this place used to be somewhere i felt accepted so much it just upsets me i suppose. I know it wont stop but its the fact that its repetitive and they will only talk me i dont like facing it alone. I dont know I'll sort it out, sorry for everything
Last edited by Puck : 21-11-2009 at 01:58 PM.
"It is not the strength of the body that counts, but the strength of the spirit"
-J.R.R Tolkien
Moonlight honey, I'm not saying that it is acceptable, or right - I'm just saying it does happen quite a bit on here. You've done really well by posting about it becasue you've brought it to peoples' attention and you haven't caused any trouble again. The post you highlighted wasn't my only reply, I was in a little bit of a moon when I wrote that and it wasn't aimed at you, it was more aimed at myself.
I will PM you because I'm not comfortable with writing it on here.
xxxxx
-“And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom.” Anais Nin-
Allie, Mutt, Great Grandma, Hope and Humbug. I love you and miss you all. xx
