Consequences for actions...

[Casper_Fading]

Is it just me or are people very unwilling to deal with the consequences of their actions?

Examples being the "i can't go to hospital becasue people wll find out" threads. Or the "No one ever asks me to go out with them" threads.. the reason no one ever asks anymore being because that person always said no and people get tired of being turned down all the time... to the "omg my parents hate me" threads because they've been asked to do stuff around the house, haven't done it and been grounded or told off as a result.

These are just a few.... it just makes me wonder... do people even think about the consequences before they act? You know... you don't do an assignment at school, you get a fail mark for that assignment. It's cause and effect. You lie to people, they're not going to trust you. You do something stupid, you're gonna get a result from it and you're probably not going to like it...

Does anyone else want to just tell people to suck it up and accept the consequences for their actions?

[Dash]

Oh yes (as my sig may indicate).

I do think though that often it can be a maturity thing, but also an illness related thing, or a circumstances related thing as to why people pass the responsibility, or deny it, etc. People will come round to it but often we have to come round to it in our own time, learning our own lessons.

At the end of the day, the people who don't yet realise, or can't yet deal, are the ones who suffer (as well as like those who are directly affected with it). It does frustrate me but I tend to pity those people and also avoid them. They will learn in time, same as we had to, and once they have learnt it will be worth it for them. You can't force anyone to learn though, unfortunately.

Just be grateful you are understand it because it can make life both easier and harder, but easier to understand.



ETA- I was just thinking about this outside because I do think its important, and I think a key thing is how you communicate to someone that their actions have consequences. I think the communication aspect is really important for people to start to learn that actions do have consequences. For instance, I know actions have consequences but if anyone told me to 'suck it up' then that would probably be pretty detrimental, and depending on the circumstances, also pretty ignorant of the person to only have that to add to the situation. However, if someone were to say to me 'I'm sorry X has happened, however, X is a direct result of Y and its happened because of Z. It might be hard to deal with it, but unfortunately you can't change Y, so maybe try to focus on what is going on now because that is changeable, and maybe [if appropriate] try to look at any positive lessons you can learn from this to stop it happening again/something else appropriate, it might make things easier/different/better/etc for you at some other point/in the future/if the situation arises again', etc. That tells me that my actions have consequences but would probably be taken on board easier than 'suck it up'.

[Snow White.]

Look, I think there's a time and a place for being told to suck it up.

And when it comes to self harm there's a lot of people here who are very unwell. Right now, if someone told me to "such it up" because I was complaining about the pain, or a scar, I'd be able to deal with it.

But when I was younger, and much more unwell, it would have upset me quite a lot.

Perhaps it is an age/perspective/stage of recovery type thing, where we can see with a bit more clarity.



[My examples are to do with self harm, because I've seen that around a lot and I think it's unfair sometimes. But in lighter issues like homework and etc, I agree with you]

& everything Ram. said was gold.

[Casper_Fading]

With the self harm, I would probably be more careful with what I said. I hardly ever reply to those threads because there is nothing really to say >.<

But yeah, when it's just basic life stuff? Ugh. *nods*

[surprising mystery]

I wouldnt like to put self harm into that rant/moan, in other ways I agree with you, not doing something at home/school will have consequences. But self harm is nothing like that. Its a coping mechanism, not a lazy attitude.

Id be pissed if someone said to me 'deal with it' re. going to hospital. If I was unwell enough to OD I wouldnt be well enough to take myself to hospital. End of. Im still responsible, agreed, but its not as simple as get on with it. Id need support, and 'deal with the consequences/put up&shut up' would only make me less inclined to seek help.

[Casper_Fading]

I think self-harm does belong there too though. If you are going to harm yourself, there will be consequences. And some of those consequences are going to suck. But sometimes facing those consequences is less scary then what will happen if you avoid them. You OD and don't want to go to hospital becasue your parents will find out ... they find you unconscious and are afraid you might die... Second consequence, much worse then the first consequence. One of the reasons my parents kicked me out was becasue they were afraid I was going to harm myself and my younger siblings were going to find me becasue I hadn't said anything when i'd done more damage then I intended...

[Heidi Tiger]

See what I've always been told when in contact with services is that people with BPD really struggle to grasp that their actions have consequences. (I don't have BPD and am very good at facing my own consequences!). So it could well be a part of their illness that they struggle to face up to the consequences of their behaviour. However it is key to recovery, if you don't take responsibility you are always going to be helpless and powerless to recover because if you can't make the effort to change your life then no one else is going to do it for you.

It's difficult to tell people that on here because RYL is meant to be purely supportive. But often a lot of people post on here seeking support for when they have been told to face the consequences. For example if they have been told that their therapy is going to end because they aren't engaging with it properly. And far too often people say "oh hun, that's completely unfair *hugs for you*, write a complaint or ask for another therapist" type thing. When really it should be more "well to be honest if you want therapy you have to work at it, it's a use it or lose it situation." But then that isn't phrased very sympathetically so obviously people react negatively to be told that. I think the reality is that people still need to do the "softly,softly, e-hugs and sympathy" approach but combined with the "actions have consequences information. If that at all makes sense.

Basically it's easy to sound like a bitch when someone is being irresponsible and not facing consequences. But being a bitch isn't constructive, it's a hard balance to get right.

[Casper_Fading]

Ram I just saw what you added! And it's true. I don't often say suck it up and deal with it, and when I do it's only to people who know me very well and know why i'm saying it :) Communication is very important. I think common sense is important too. A friend of mine got suspended for throwing a chair at a teacher and was telling everyone how unfair it was. I was like... "you threw a chair at a teacher, you only got suspended, you're lucky you were arrested!" I mean really.... what did she expect? To be patted on the back and told to go on her way >.< consequences and common sense *nods*

[griddlebone]

I think if you have the insight to realise that help etc is necessary then you probably have the insight to realise that a lot of people are not ready or cannot bring themselves to ask for help. As Ive said in previous threads, I personally think that a lot of time, with the threads where people are asking pretty simple things that they know the answer to, its not so much that they dont know its that people need it reaffirmed by other people.
It doesnt annoy me as such, I think common sense is sometimes a little bit lacking on RYL but I also know that mental illness can sometimes affect your ability to think about the best way to deal with things.
But then I could say the same sort of thing ie actions=consequences, I cant tell you the number of time people have done something wrong and then gone ballistic when they get told off for it...its just the way things are. I think that RYL is a lot easier to handle for me personally if I remember that a lot of people on this site are younger than me and so possibly dont have the same maturity level. (thats not me saying im more mature than everyone younger than me, or that 15/16 year olds etc cant be mature)
I dont know, I tend to let these things go.

[surprising mystery]

^ I see that, in the sense that my gf has to deal with her SH in a way that means her 10 yr old brother wont know a thing. Its been a condition of her comming home from hospital on many occasions that she seeks help immediatly and cuts only when hes not at home.

I just feel a lot of people who post her are in a despirate situation, and talking about consequences in a way that critisizes or conveys the notion 'put up and shut up/deal with it' isnt going to make it easier for them to do the most responsible thing. Pointing out that if they do not seek medical attention, their parents could find them dead or dying and that would be worse than admitting you'd done something stupid, thats fine, its important people make an informed decion.

Sorry Im rambling. I have no battery left and Im rushing >.<

[Casper_Fading]

Yeah Heidi it does make sense! And, funnily enough that analogy about therapy being ended 'cause the person wasn't engaging properly happened to a friend of mine on here. She was discharged from hospital becasue she wsn't working at it. She's hoping to go back in next week because she's ready to put in the effort but yeah... softy softly can be so detrimental when that's all someone gets.

Maybe there needs to be some sort of..tutorial or something on what to say.

[Dash]

I think sometimes support is a reality check, but again, done in the most sensitive and softly softly approach possible.

I tutorial would be a tough thing to produce because everyone is different when it comes to what they need, and also what they say, and the poster and the replyer (is that a word? I suppose responder may be better) will differ.

I do think a lot of common sense comes into it, and where possible, put yourself in their shoes and work out what you might want to hear in their situation and how to say that in a way that they would be receptive to.

[Alone and Scared]

A few little things annoy me, 'I didn't do my homework and now I've got a dentention' - those kind of things on that level annoy me, because they are simple..... BUT..... I do think that's largely an age related thing. I know a lot of people who I went to school with were like it; but they have grown out of it as they have become adults.

Anything to do with illness and self harm, I think requires more sensitivity and understanding - and it also needs to be approached carefully.

I don't think people should be shot down for making such posts, as, at the time, that is what is important to them. I think it is easy to make your point clear, without being rude and sarcastic. I've seen a lot of posts lately from certain members that have actually shocked me, and I'm quite disgusted by peoples' attitudes.

It's kind of like, when I was in year 11, a girl I knew was constantly going on about whether her make up looked ok, whether her face was shiny and whether her hair looked alright. At that point, I was battling an Eating Disorder, a phobia, Anxiety, Depression and the rest..... At times, I wanted to tell her to shut up; if make up was the main thing that was on her mind, she was flipping lucky - but to her, that was a massive thing. It meant a lot to her; and it was, the main thing on her mind. It was important to her, as my things were to me. (Not on the same level, as one is a mental illness and one is..... Urm..... Vanity(?) - but still, it was very important to her.)

People will have different things going on in their lives and whilst people do need to realise that actions have consequences, it can take time to learn that, and some people have to learn the hard way. We would have all been at that stage of thinking how unfair life was because we got 'x' or couldn't do 'y' - but it's a case of learning and realising.

That won't come with being rude and nasty to people.

I'm going to shut up now because I'm rambling....... I hope I made some sense!

[Casper_Fading]

But isn't what one wants to hear often very different from what one needs to hear?

[Alone and Scared]

The need and want needs to be mixed.

For example, there was a girl who I was speaking to who wouldn't eat or drink due to her Anorexia - she wasn't on this site. She didn't want to speak to people, and she said that she hated being so poorly but didn't know what to do. She was encouraged to eat and drink, and cuddled and everything; I actually said 'If you do not take on fluids and food you will be taken into hopsital under the mental health act and put onto a drip. You will have your rights taken from you whilst you are so poorly.' - Or something similar. I wasn't being nasty, I was stating the facts - in amongst the cuddles and support. You can be truthful without being spiteful and cold.

[The One Who]

Jess, essentially I agree with you.

This being a self harm forum, it does normalise the action quite a lot but we need to realise that is is not a normal (or healthy) way to deal with problems. We all need to realise that there are consequences for our actions, whether that be failing an essay because you don't hand it in or needing to get to a hospital because you've OD'd.

What is right is not always easy, and nothing worthwhile is easy. It's the way of the world.

[I.Heart.And]

Quote:

Is it just me or are people very unwilling to deal with the consequences of their actions?

It's not just you, I agree.

[Casper_Fading]

Claire it's like that quote from the movie Serenity... "if you can't do what's easy, do what's right"

[Margo]

BAN THEM ALL! or SHOOT EM! yeah lets go for a good old fashioned lynch mob....*puts a cricket ball in a sock and hands out baseball bats and crow bars*

[Casper_Fading]

Matt... wtf?!