so, i find the use of these and similar words to describe something stupid or annoying really offensive and i know i'm not the only one.
are there any rules on this type of language and if not can people be encouraged not to use these words?
i appreciate that most of the time people aren't trying to be offensive but it really upsets me for personal reasons and, as i said, i'm not the only one so i don't feel i'm being oversensitive about it.
if they are being used indirectly i dont see whats wrong with it. todays society uses all these words as part of their english language now (sadly)so i dont see how anything can be done about it
can't find it in the ryl guide...
but, i'm pretty sure there *is* a rule about using 'offensive/discriminatory language'.
there's a report button below posts, if you think it's offensive you can report it.
(what's "spesh" mean?)
Please do not make any comments that involve any level of discrimination, racism or sexism; including personal views, jokes, stereotyping of any specific group, derogatory slang language & terminology, and comments about race, gender, social class or sexual orientation that may be offensive.
For example : "that’s gay!", "... nigger", "what did the blond say to the ...", "so typical for a woman!", "I hate Chavs!" ... etc
but, the rules were written when we moved over to v3 about 2/3 years ago and as has been said, the words you have picked out are so commonly use in contexts not reffering to homosexuality, or being disabled in any way that it would be almost impossible to police.
I guess really, we have to go with what the majority feels... im gay, and i dont find calling things gay offensive in the slightest.
Why does it offend you? If you do see things that you dont like, report them.
Gay - For those who find this offensive, I don't see why the person reading perceives it as offensive unless they see homosexuality as a negative thing. In which case, they should question their own perception of words and use.
Retard - Admittedly, this used to be used in negative connotations and therefore it became an insult. Though, in modern day contexts it's often used as a way to make fun of oneself or a close friend; the word tends to be more of affection than a derogatory term. I guess this goes to the power of words, since the older generations (when in their youth) created so many negative terms it is now fashionable for the opposite to occur with this generation. Presumably, that will change once again with the next generation. Words are only as powerful as they are perceived, so by using this word in everyday language and as a sign of affection it reduces the negativity that surrounds it. Furthermore, if you ban a word then it becomes 'cool' for those wishing to use it in a negative way to use the term as often as possible - rather than the rule abiding yet rebellious taking it and changing it's meaning to a positivity within the language.
Spesh - I am a person who sees special needs and I don't find this offensive at all. Unless people find me offensive due to my special needs, then I don't see why people should find this offensive at all. Also, as with retard, the only people I've ever heard refer me as it are friends being affectionate (unless I'm to slow to see that they're insulting me ). The use of this word also seems to be a backlash of the education system and how it seems to make it rather obvious who those of us requiring special help are.
So yes, the perception of these words is often down to the reader's personality & how they feel about certain topics. I'm not saying people who read the use of "gay" as negative are automatically against homosexuals, but that there maybe a sensitivity about the word due to past discrimination. Though, why should others be given a tool to discriminate with? The use of these words in an affectionate manner removes that negativity of the subject. For example, my parents have used homosexuality as something to be negative about in the past, my siblings promptly responded with "So?". Which, in my opinion, shows how these words change over time and thus affect how they are used as much as how people feel about the topic.
On the other hand, if a person is using it against another in a negative way then that's flaming & they should be reported. I'm sure the person it's aimed at will know how it's meant, but I haven't seen it used as a negative way to be honest. Unless there are any examples you can quote (without singling people out, as that would be unfair)?
I'm sorry if this offended anyone, it's not intended that way. Though I fail to see why we (as a community) should create a negative view/use of these words while they're being used in a positive/friendly way. As a society, the youth have been subjected to so much negative press and demonisation of themselves that they rebel by changing the language they use to have a differing meaning. At least, that's my perception of the anomaly; in my view there does seem to be a correlation between the media's negative views of the youth and more negative words being turned positive.
i understand that it is difficult to police and i'm not asking for action to be taken against people that use it, i just think people should be encouraged not to use these words.
i dont think the fact that i find the use of 'gay' offensive says anything about my view on homosexuality. It *is* used negatively. If your bus doesnt turn up and you say "that's so gay" then you *are* using it negatively. I really don't think i'm being oversensitive in seeing it as negative and i definatly don't think it helps to remove negativity around the words.
I also understand that a lot of people do use these words affectionatly but towards each other i.e if someone falls down and you call them a retard you aren't trying to offend that person. But that still doesn't stop it being offensive to bystanders and its the same on RYL. I don't think using the word this way helps to break down any barriers or stereotypes though.
If the rules include discrimination against any group then that includes disabled people. I see that it already mentions "gay" and i understand that my finding "retard" offensive is a personal opinion but it *does* fall under that rule from the looks of it.
I'm not creating a negative view of these words, i'm objecting to the already existing negative views being used on here. "gay" "retard" and words like this *are* being used negatively and i still find it offensive.
I realise this is all my opinion and based on issues of discrimination against people i love but the fact remains that they are derrogatory and discriminatory. I mean, you wouldnt say "that's so downs syndrome". That's only an extension of "that's retarded" into a specific condition.
I find it annoying when I hear it in real life (except spesh, which I haven't heard or seen) because it isn't being used affectionately but as a way of insulting. I haven't seen it used in an insulting manner on RYL though, so no complaints there.
The context of the word is hugely important in it's meaning.
I also agree with this:
Quote:
On the other hand, if a person is using it against another in a negative way then that's flaming & they should be reported. I'm sure the person it's aimed at will know how it's meant, but I haven't seen it used as a negative way to be honest.
I'm sorry if this offended anyone, it's not intended that way. Though I fail to see why we (as a community) should create a negative view/use of these words while they're being used in a positive/friendly way. As a society, the youth have been subjected to so much negative press and demonisation of themselves that they rebel by changing the language they use to have a differing meaning.
Last edited by Dreaming. : 05-08-2009 at 08:43 AM.
I think it's perhaps a generational thing, in part, as Josh says. I do find the word 'retarded' offensive - because of the bullying I went through at school, the words used, and how much it hurt and caused emotional scarring. Then there's strangers in the present who seem to think I am intellectually disabled because of my PTSD symptoms. When I so totally am not.
I just.. it's a painful, raw issue for me.
If people use it affectionately or whatever between each other, friends, that's ok. But when a certain line is crossed...
I agree that it is wrong to mock people with any kinds of disabilities. It's wrong to mock people full stop.
I hate the terms retarded (or retard), spastic (or spacker). Gay is a bit more complicated because many gay people may use the word in a positive manner. However I just fail to see the need for such language.To call someone a retard is basically inferring that they have special needs or are of below average intelligence, but if the person giving the insult was of above average intelligence shouldn't their vocabulary be expansive enough to come up with a more creative and less discriminatory insult? To say of something "that's so gay" is such a lazy phrase, why not say exactly what you don't like about it, or come up with some derogatory phrase that doesn't discriminate certain sectors of society?
People might well think "but I don't find such phrases offensive", but perhaps they should think "what impression of myself am I putting across in using such phrases?" or "do I really have such a narrow vocabulary I can't think of anything else to say?". Even if you don't care about offending certain members of society, perhaps you will care about the impression of yourself using such terminology puts across.
Thing is, when people use the word 'gay', they're not talking about homosexuality. I.e.
(To a female friend): You're so gay!
It DOESN'T mean: You're such a homosexual, you sleep with women.
It MEANS: You're stupid/silly/being daft.
(About something): Ugh, that's stupidly gay.
DOESN'T mean: That bus likes having sex with other buses.
MEANS: It's late/annoying.
Etc etc. It's all about connotation. The English language evolves every day - gay used to mean happy. Fag used to mean gay most of the time (now generally perceived as cigarette). Etc etc.
To call someone a retard is basically inferring that they have special needs or are of below average intelligence, but if the person giving the insult was of above average intelligence shouldn't their vocabulary be expansive enough to come up with a more creative and less discriminatory insult?
People might well think "but I don't find such phrases offensive", but perhaps they should think "what impression of myself am I putting across in using such phrases?" or "do I really have such a narrow vocabulary I can't think of anything else to say?". Even if you don't care about offending certain members of society, perhaps you will care about the impression of yourself using such terminology puts across.
Use big words and you're arrogant/pretentious. Use small words and you're being lazy/stupid. Lose-lose society.
I really think that slang isn't there to be offensive, it's just generally universally understood to mean one thing. If I were to turn to someone and call them obtuse or puerile - chances are they'll then go, what? Which often defeats the point of a quick 'insult' meant in a harmless way. It's very rare to see 'spesh' and 'gay', and even 'retard', used on this forum in a hurtful way.
The word "fag" doesn't generally mean cigarette where I live. It's a derogatory term for gay people in many places. That doesn't mean I get offended when I see the word used that way, since I know that's what people in the UK call it. Just wanted to point that out.
I think what people are missing here is that if the word "gay" is used to describe something negative, then the connotation to many people is that being gay is negative. I'll give an example. When I was in junior high school, it suddenly became popular for kids in my school to use "mexican" as an insulting term, to the extent that use of the word was banned. Both the action and the reaction caused problems. So I don't think banning the use of the word "gay" or "retarded" is the correct course of action here, but I do understand why some people find it offensive and would like it to be discouraged.
Sorry, I meant to put in the UK on that bit, but forgot.
And I'm not missing that people think that using 'gay' negatively is negative about homosexuality, I just disagree with that view. Most people DON'T view the use of the word 'gay' to mean that homosexuality is bad...it's just another word for stupid, not homosexual.
I don't see how these words cannot be offensive. Whatever way you choose to dress it up, the words "gay" and "retarded" are used as an insult. It doesn't make it any better if you say as to your friend as a joke, it's still used negatively.
But the word has multiple meanings, so whilst it is used in a negative way, it's not using it in the same way as the the original use of the word. Kind-of like the progression of the word 'gay' from something happy and jovial to a homosexual person.
Just that the language has evolved, these words have become common-place to mean something other than what they used to mean, just as language does progress.
I really, really struggle with these words, because I really think that banning them helps nobody. I also think that it completely depends on the situation and how the word is being used (and with special, where on earth do you draw the line? You could mean it in the true sense of the word, meaning that this person is just something a bit different, that they are 'special'). I hate hate hate words being banned, because I think it gives these words far more power than they need to have. This is something that I feel quite strongly about, because I really think that the only power words have is the power that you give them. That's a side point, but yus :P
the point is- for every person who isn't offended by these words there will be one that is. Surely in the interests of protecting the minority the majority can moderate their language. On ryl i mean where presumably most of us really don't want to offend people.
i understand that the words aren't necessarily being used in a literal sense, especially with 'gay' but thats my point. If you use it to refer to things that annoy you or stupid things, the implication is always that homosexuality is a derrogatory thing. You would never, i assume, say 'that's so black' so why is it any different?
I know people aren't trying to be offensive, i really do, but these words *are* offensive to some people and as far as i can see the rules in the RYL guide specifically say that this type of misuse of words should not be used.
If we take
Matermind's example.
that's so gay to your female friend- meaning annoying or stupid.
or that's stupidly gay- that your bus didn't turn up.
Sure, i see that no offense is meant but if I was standing in hearing distance it would still annoy me. Your intentions with the words dont change the connotations they may have for other people and i think RYLers should be more aware of that than most people since many of us have faced dsicrimination in the passed.
If we take
Matermind's example.
that's so gay to your female friend- meaning annoying or stupid.
or that's stupidly gay- that your bus didn't turn up.
Sure, i see that no offense is meant but if I was standing in hearing distance it would still annoy me.
I see your point but the word 'gay' in this situation is used negatively, as if it's a bad thing.
I've had a lengthy debate about this before and it's (usually) only the younger generation who use these words and find them acceptable.
My best friend's brother is retarded and she finds the word 'retard' very offensive. She and I know what the implications being retarded are and it's not something to be thrown around lightly. I feel very strongly about this.
). The use of this word also seems to be a backlash of the education system and how it seems to make it rather obvious who those of us requiring special help are.
