helpmydeath: if you go back a few pages in this thread, there's a long discussion on that quote. happened to save my reply for that one, so i'll post it again. (LOL we need an FAQ for this thread ;) )
"...was a bit freaked out by 1 Corinthians 3:16 - 17. Which isn't too hard to get freaked out by; I still pause every time i read that one. "Dont you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's spirit lives in you? If anyone destroys God's temple God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred and you are that temple." The first reaction I always have is "ack! scary, angry, mean God! run away!". And I think that a lot of people react that way when scripture mentions God being angry or God punishing people. But the more I find out, the more I'm seeing that that reaction is just wrong, and responding to a false image of God as sadistic and hateful. The truth is something much more amazing, and admittedly hard to concieve of...
"I really love that verse. I think it can sound kind of scary, to someone who has an image of an angry, wrathful God in the back of their mind somewhere (most of us) but you need to remember that God never stops loving us or wanting what's best for us. I would suggest reading isaiah chapter 1, if you're looking for a better description of how God gets angry. for so many of us, we just can't concieve of someone being angry at us without wanting to hurt us or punish us because of that anger...and that's scary. but when god punishes us, he does it out of love. to see an example of that, you can look in hosea. PLEASE read hosea chapter 2. It's short, it won't take very long, but it is a great example of God's love in his anger.
Now, why I love this verse...:)
It is sin to deface God's image...and we are made in God's image. Even more so as Christians, because God's spirit dwells in us. So, Christian life involves caring for both the soul AND body. SI is forbidden because it defaces the image of God...and while that sounds scary, it is also beautiful and awe-inspiring because it tells us a little bit about what God sees when he looks at us. Even if you have been told your entire life that you are trash, worthless...this verse shows that that's not true. Not only does God NOT think that ANYONE is worthless...but, he places such worth on us that he takes the violation of what he created us to be very seriously (even when it's us doing it). (you can find more of this in matthew 5, where jesus tells us that what we do to "the least of these", we do to him.) honestly, if he didn't take it so seriously, i wouldn't be convinced that we did really matter to him...like a parent that doesn't care if their child does well in school or gets addicted to drugs...the lengths God will go to so that we can have the best of all relationships with him show his amazing love, because he won't be satisfied with anything but the best for us.
And in Hosea 2, after the wife has everything taken from her, we see the beauty of God's promise of restoration...
“But then I will win her back once again.
I will lead her into the desert
and speak tenderly to her there.
15 I will return her vineyards to her
and transform the Valley of Trouble[b] into a gateway of hope.
She will give herself to me there,
as she did long ago when she was young,
when I freed her from her captivity in Egypt.
16 When that day comes,” says the Lord,
“you will call me ‘my husband’
instead of ‘my master.’[c]
17 O Israel, I will wipe the many names of Baal from your lips,
and you will never mention them again.
18 On that day I will make a covenant
with all the wild animals and the birds of the sky
and the animals that scurry along the ground
so they will not harm you.
I will remove all weapons of war from the land,
all swords and bows,
so you can live unafraid
in peace and safety.
19 I will make you my wife forever,
showing you righteousness and justice,
unfailing love and compassion.
20 I will be faithful to you and make you mine,
and you will finally know me as the Lord."
Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
If you can bounce high, bounce for her too,
Till she cry "Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!"
Thomas Parke D’Invilliers
I love Hosea.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.
It's a truly phenomenal picture of God's unconditional, redeeming love for us, his promiscuous bride.
i think that since we are the "temple of God" the first thought that comes into my head is that we should definately respect it and by sh-ing we aren't doing that...
i also heard it described another way though...when we become christians, God gives us his spirit, and he lives inside of us right? (i'm not sure about other denominations, but that's what mine teaches) so if he lives in us, then we take him everywhere we go...we are never alone. We would never think of self harming if jesus was standing right beside us..but the reality is that he is...whenever we do something wrong, we take him with us and its just wrong...
i don't know...that makes me never want to do anything wrong again...
Mine teaches the same thing and I agree. Unfortunately knowing that he's right there and that you really shouldn't be Si'ing or whatever else it might be because you're dragging him through it too doesn't always make it easier to stop, I usually find it just makes me feel so much worse after the fact :(
I try to love the sinner but it's more than the sin will allow. I've looked a long time into the dark,
hoping the truth would show me how
~Bad Cliché
let's start an FAQ on our facebook group page! :b or a 'great quotes' section or something...:)
unfortunately, i only saved my replies...because some of them get rewritten, and posted as blog entries...
Last edited by aquatickitten : 10-11-2008 at 10:26 PM.
Reason: adding
if you want to join the facebook group PM me your email address
deena some how your not on my friend list so PM me
Last edited by Freedom Fighter : 10-11-2008 at 11:14 PM.
Reason: adding
Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
If you can bounce high, bounce for her too,
Till she cry "Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!"
Thomas Parke D’Invilliers
Random thought, curious as to what everyone thinks:
Does one have to belong to a certain denomination to believe in God and the Bible? Is making God the center of your life, following the rules He's laid out enough, or must one attend a church or synagouge to be a "true believer"?
It doesn't really matter which denomination, as long as their teachings are in line with the Bible.
& going to church does not make you a Christian, any more than sitting in a garage makes you a car... But it is necessary to our spiritual well-being to fellowship with other believers. True, all we really need is God, but we were also created to have relationships with other believers, to help eachother grow, to hold eachother accountable, to encourage eachother when times are rough, to learn from eachother's experience...
Thanks for all the feedback guys. (and yes, i am Catholic; sorry, forgot to mention that.) I truly believe that God, although not happy with our choices in SI, will forgive us because we truly want to be forgiven- it says in the bible, ask to be forgiven, and you will be forgiven. Stay strong all of you, and i'm praying for each one of you.
*..life in pain.. *-my older sis; Sweetest Downfall-my jellybean; greenspot-my cousin; TokioPanik!-my TokioHotelTwin; darkdestiny-my pet monkey; I-Feel-Infinate-my gerbil; frombullets2black-my llama; livingnotbreathing-my fellow spy; UnsureOne-my pet goldfish; xXxHis_fallen_angelxXx-my pet monkey; ashy_ashy18-my sister; Aryn is my fellow ninja and partner in crime
Apocalyptic and insane, but my dreams will never change
wow, I miss things. lol. and therefore, this is gonna be long...sorry guys ^^"
waiting in the dark, yes. you did the right thing in not cutting. I hope your art teacher won't fail you for expressing yourself, because that's what art is about...but, if she does, that's not a reflection on you. Einstein failed elementary school, after all. One bad grade won't ruin everything, and God doesn't judge us based on how good we are at things or how perfect we can be. He loves you because you're you, not because you get good grades.
and Hi, Jewel! :)
Salanna: yup, hosea is one of my faves. if we're allowed to have those ;)
felicia: yup, that makes a lot of sense. God loves us, and wants us to turn away from our sin, because it's killing us inside (and, hmm, in some cases maybe outside too.) "Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked?" declares the Sovereign Lord. "Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?... Because he considers all the offenses he has committed and turns away from them, he will surely live; he will not die... Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel?" Ezekiel 18:23-31. Interesting little point to make here..."repent" doesn't mean to fix our behavior, to stop whatever we're doing and live rightly (as if we could!). The word for repent used here means 'to turn back'. there are two directions we can be going...toward god, or away from him. The "way" we are looking: 1) will make sense if we look long enough; 2) will create desire to move in that direction; and 3) will lead to something. So, if we're facing the wrong direction, we'll keep going that way...repenting means turning and setting our eyes on God. Ps 34:5,8 (NIV) "Those who look to him are radiant; their faces are never covered with shame... Taste and see that the Lord is good." It doesn't mean fixing ourselves :)
eryn and jewel, in response to taking God with us wherever we are: there was a discussion a while back about 1 john 3:6, "Anyone who goes on sinning has never really understood Christ and has never known him". What you said about feeling guilty reminded me of that discussion, for some reason, so I'm going to repost from what I wrote then..."In other words...The person who perfectly understands God will not sin. One who sins does not perfectly understand God. The more we get to know God [and the use of γινώσκω here implies a very deep form of knowing, so much so that it was used as a euphemism for sex] the more we are tranformed by this knowledge to be without sin. If we have misconceptions about who God is, of course we are going to be in error, because we are acting on false information.
Personally, I've thought to myself many times, "If only I really understood the implications of the crucifiction." And God has seen fit to bring revelations of meaning in my life, but the meaning is still so much deeper than we can grasp, wounded and scarred as we are. But, when we understand, it brings healing to our souls." It's more than just that he's standing there, watching everything we do...that sounds kinda creepy actually :) it's more (imho) that if we could understand how much God loves us, if we could see through his eyes, our need and desire to SI would disappear.
and on the topic of church...chigwell christian fellowship has a pretty good study series that talks about what 'church' was back in bible times, how and why it's changed, and some good points people should hear. as always, don't turn your brain off when you read...their study is understandably biased, as they're not a traditional church :) but whether you agree with them or not, the section on the early church is great. http://www.house-church.org/what_main.htm
its a secret group so no one can see that your a member
Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
If you can bounce high, bounce for her too,
Till she cry "Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!"
Thomas Parke D’Invilliers
Since there was a huge debate yesterday in my philosophy class and my teacher basically said that evolution is a proven fact, this article jumped out at me :)
well the only science that you can prove anything in is math...
Then wear the gold hat, if that will move her;
If you can bounce high, bounce for her too,
Till she cry "Lover, gold-hatted, high-bouncing lover,
I must have you!"
Thomas Parke D’Invilliers
so i get devos in my email every weekday, and todays hit me so i'll put it here for you lot to read =]
-------------------------------- November 11, 2008What's In Your Trash Basket? Gwen SmithToday's Truth "Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" (John 8:10 NIV)
Friend to Friend
A four-year-old girl was overheard reciting the Lord's Prayer, "and forgive us our trash baskets, as we forgive those who pass trash against us." When I first heard that story, I smiled. Then I thought of a conversation I recently had with a girlfriend.
She is a Christian friend. But though she has "emptied her trash basket" of sin before the Lord in sincere repentance, she has not emptied the trash basket of self-condemnation. Not completely. She won't allow it. She struggles deeply to let go of mistakes she made in her past. She holds the trash basket lid on tightly. To be free of that waste doesn't seem fair in her mind.
She is haunted by shame. Haunted by sins that are no longer remembered by God. Haunted by sins that have been cast as far as the east is from the west.
"For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on those who fear him." (Psalm 103:11-13)
These memories don't live in her past. They live in her now. They haunt her regularly like a spine-chilling horror film monster and as much as she would like to move forward in forgiveness, she just can't find the courage to scare the monster away.
In the New Testament book of John, chapter 8, we meet a woman caught in the act of adultery. The legalistic teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought her before Jesus. They publicly humiliated her in front of all the town's people, saying to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?"(John 8:4-5)
Jesus bent down and wrote on the ground with his finger as they continued to question him. Finally, "He straightened up and said to them, '"If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.'" Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground" (John 8:7-8).
The crowd eventually thinned to nothing. The older, wiser men cleared first. Then the younger ones trickled away. When the adulterous woman and Jesus were the only ones remaining:
"Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin" (John 8:10-12).
My sister, do you see that our holy Lord delights to show us mercy? He does not condemn us as we deserve. Time and time again, Scripture reveals merciful pictures of forgiveness. The woman in this story was guilty when she was brought to face Jesus, but as she left His presence, her guilt was forgiven. Her trash basket was empty. When we turn to face Jesus with repentant hearts, our guilt is forgiven as well.
This account of the adulterous woman teaches us a valuable lesson about judging and condemning others. We shouldn't judge others. It's not appropriate and it's not our place. Simple as that.
Toss your trash!
But what does this lesson teach us about judging ourselves? My friend that I spoke of earlier carried around a trash basket filled with junk she threw in herself. Sure, it was accompanied by trash from other people too, but the lingering condemnation came from memories of decisions she had made, things she had done, places she had been, and brokenness she has experienced because of her own choices. In her heart, she accepts the forgiveness of Jesus, but she can't bear to forgive herself. So many women won't forgive themselves.
I've been that woman.
I know that woman.
I know that self-loathing. I've lived it. I'm not going to sit here and try to tell you that forgiving yourself is easy. It's hard--and, in a lot of ways, it should be! But I can testify that it wasn't until I prayerfully allowed the stubborn, strong, and unconditional love of Jesus to pry my fingers off the lid of my trash basket and empty the condemning contents, that I experienced true freedom and complete forgiveness.
Is there something for which you have not been able to forgive yourself?
My friend, we need to stop beating ourselves up for sins of our past. We need to stop allowing guilt and shame to chain us to unproductive living. Jesus humbled Himself by becoming human, endured an excruciating death, and then defied the grave in His resurrection so that we could be restored to a place of complete healing. Complete healing.
Second Corinthians 5:21 states that "God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." If you are in Christ, the Bible says that your guilt was paid for on the cross of Calvary. Jesus carried the sins of the world on His shoulders so that you would not have to carry them on yours.
If you are holding on to unconfessed sin, the time has come for you to release your grip. God's Word promises that, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).
Accept His forgiveness.
None of us is perfect, just perfectly forgiven. Take your hand off the lid and allow the Lord to empty your trash basket of every condemning voice, once and for all. Embrace the freedom that Jesus intends for you to live in.
“The good things don’t always soften the bad, but vice-versa, the bad things don’t necessarily spoil the good things and make them unimportant.”
“Nobody important? Blimey, that’s amazing. Do you know, in nine hundred years of time and space I’ve never met anyone who wasn’t important before.”
“If it’s time to go, remember what you’re leaving. Remember the best. My friends have always been the best of me.”
wow, I miss things. lol. and therefore, this is gonna be long...sorry guys ^^"
waiting in the dark, yes. you did the right thing in not cutting. I hope your art teacher won't fail you for expressing yourself, because that's what art is about...but, if she does, that's not a reflection on you. Einstein failed elementary school, after all. One bad grade won't ruin everything, and God doesn't judge us based on how good we are at things or how perfect we can be. He loves you because you're you, not because you get good grades.
...
thank you aquatickitten. my teacher has kept the piece has unmarked and told me exactly some things she thinks i should do to make it good enough, so with God's help i might scrape a pass :) i'll be trying to take your words to heart so hopefully i can hear them as God's.
things are difficult at the moment, but i wanted to say, i always read this thread, though i don't always reply, and to see others' faith gives me a lot of comfort you are all in my prayers every day xxx
you are all in my prayers every day xxx