I think this is a great point, and something that I try to reply with and I know many others do, too. Asking why you cut, why you've pruged, why you've taken drugs etc is the root to the problem, and the only way anyone si ever going to get some real, constructive support is through actually exploring the issues behind everything.
Aimeeeeeeee, i went there but no-one noticed...
I shall quote myself...
Quote:
I think most people are in agreement self harm is generally an action to a reaction, so of course it may help to focus on why people self harm instead of the act itself.
I don't quite understand the comparison you're making here between eating disorders and this issue of self harm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heidi
I'm not saying normalise it. I'm saying be open about it, if this kind of cutting is less bad that another kind of cutting, why hide that information from those who would use it to keep themselves safe? All you are doing is wanting to put others more at risk and frankly I think thats grossly irresponsible, people need to be in full posession of the facts to draw their own opinions
Heidi, we are also saying that we have to be open about self harm, face these issues with honesty and not cotton wool people. As for giving people information, it is not clear that getting stitches is worse for you than not getting stitches? I mean, really. Forget the norms on any website for a minute - is it not ridiculously obvious? What are you proposing we say? "Cutting to get stitches is bad but if you cut and don't get stitches that is less bad." To oh-so many members that is only going to read one thing: permission to cut as long as it is not stitches.
Er - how about talk to someone, try a distraction/method/skill etc, before encouraging such things?
But how many kids do you know that were determined to harm themselves for the next 10 years??? They don't know that it's addictive. If people can tell them, maybe get them before they get addicted then DO IT! I know that at least a dozen kids I spoke to have either stopped harming or told a trusted adult about a friend that is harming themselves becasue of what I said. They have found me and told me this or I have had a teacher ringing up and asking what they should do with this kid becasue of this. I spoke at a state wide conference and quite a few services rang the co-ordinators asking for my number. If you tell kids at the behinning that it's okay, then that's what they're going to think. If kids stumble onto this website when they first start harming, they're going to come in to a community that says cutting is okay. They are going to look on this as the norm and it's going to make the problems they face in the real world a lot harder to face. It's 'normal' for us. It's 'okay' for us. So why am I being treated like i'm doing something terrible??? Society is never going to accept self harm as an okay thing. The medical professionals do need to pull there heads out and come up with better ways of treating self harmers and they could start with treating them as people. BUT it should never be treated as an okay thing.
Liv, if you need help for a problem and you don't get it... you don't even look for it becasue cutting 'helps'... that is a huge huge huge problem. Cutting doesn't fix anything. it doesn't change any circumstances. Often it makes people feel more isolated and less deserving of aid. And it stops working! It eventually becomes just a habit, you don't get any 'benefit' from it. But you can't stop becasue you're addicted. And say, you are being abused and you're cutting and as such you don't try and find your way out of your situation. I'm NOT saying that there is always a way out. Sadly, there isn't for some. BUT if you don't even look for help becasue you have 'cutting' as your bandaid solution... that is a problem.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
Originally Posted by EIRIINNNNN YOU JUST CHANGED YOUR NAME.
I think most people are in agreement self harm is generally an action to a reaction, so of course it may help to focus on why people self harm instead of the act itself.
yes :)
And Olivia, Chels, the reason this was in discussion was just due to a rise of threads about it. We're not saying other behaviours arn't also harmful :/
Oh, my god. So many name changes in one thread *faints*
Heidi, we are also saying that we have to be open about self harm, face these issues with honesty and not cotton wool people. As for giving people information, it is not clear that getting stitches is worse for you than not getting stitches? I mean, really. Forget the norms on any website for a minute - is it not ridiculously obvious? What are you proposing we say? "Cutting to get stitches is bad but if you cut and don't get stitches that is less bad." To oh-so many members that is only going to read one thing: permission to cut as long as it is not stitches.
& you just know those that cut but don't need stitches are just going to feel aweful about themselves.
ALL destructive behaviour is bad.
Cutting, purging, restricting, burning, ODing, etc.
Yes they are all bad! I only started it about cutting because i've seen so many cutting isn't that bad threads and statements lately. I haven't seen any purging or Oding is okay threads or statements....
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
Well obviously no cutting is totally safe.
But there are methods far less likely to cause serious damage than others. I don't even mean tell people how and what with, just generally be more open with it.
And yes obviously getting stitches is worse than not getting stitches, but if the only talk about actual self harm is those posting in first aid that they went to far, it's easy to think that getting stitches is the norm and isn't "that" bad.
The comparison is people with eating disorders are congratulated for purging less or eating one meal. Surely that is the same as promoting less dangerous cutting or being cut free for an hour or something. I don't get why self harm is demonised but eating disorders isn't. If my facts are correct eating disorders have a far higher mortality rate. So the thread should be "Eating disorders aren't "bad" " by that rhetoric, or as Chels said, all self destructive behaviours are equally as bad, and someone who is bulimic is no better than someone who self harms who is no better than an anorexic.
Because it was something i was pulled up on, i don't consider self harm to be a good thing or normal or ok, but if i have scars or cuts i don't let it affect what i wear. (I mean no way am i walking around in hot pants in this ****ing weather).
But some people do & i think that just contradicts their argument, if it's normal & okay why are you covering up? I don't understand.
Which then leads on to the attention seeker argument.
I agree with this. I sort of 'realised' for the first real time last week that I'm trying to justify what I do/have been doing lately as 'normal'. 'I haven't eaten for _______, but it's fine 'cos other people do it more/'I don't self-harm enough for it to be a problem' or whatever. But if I genuinely think it's normal, then I wouldn't try and hide it from my friends and family, because I wouldn't see a problem with them knowing.
I think, and maybe this kind of links in with the whole RYL 'normalising' self-harm argument or something, I don't know, that sometimes it's very easy to fall into a pattern of just doing it more and more, as a coping mechanism for anything, and it becomes 'normal' to you to do it, so you sort of forget what it's like to not self-harm. Like sometimes people say they hate it because people don't understand self-harm. It is frustrating when people don't understand how you feel, but the reason they don't understand is because most people don't self-harm, the idea that sometimes wants to physically hurt themselves (even if it's not serious) is not a 'normal' thing to do, it's a sign that something's wrong.
I don't really know what I'm trying to say. I just think, yes there are more dangerous things that someone could be doing, and yes sometimes drinking/smoking whatever can be more physically harmful, but the fact that someone is choosing to hurt themselves is, in my opinion, a sign that something is definitely, definitely wrong 'mentally', and that isn't 'normal'.
This probably sounds really offensive/patronising, I don't intend it to be, sorry. :\
Yes they are all bad! I only started it about cutting because i've seen so many cutting isn't that bad threads and statements lately. I haven't seen any purging or Oding is okay threads or statements....
I can honestly say I have never seen a thread saying;
"Oh it's okay to cut. Cutting is good for everyone." That would be unnacceptable.
If kids stumble onto this website when they first start harming,
... actually, if we have a thread or something saying "here, safe cutting is when you don't hit a vein, that's safer" than firstly - how pro are we going to sound!? and secondly to someone just starting to self harm you would get this situation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirinn
The thing is, if RYL were to become more lax with certain rules & knowing about each others wounds you need to see which way the majority will swing, will most feel they are not hurting themselves enough which would lead to more problems, or would the majority feel better in knowing they didn't hurt themselves as bad?
and I worry about putting people in that position where they think they're not hurting themselves enough / their problems are not big enough, etc, etc.
Cos the ED forum had to bring about a lot of changes to stop the pro/permissive-ness of it.
If we had changes to the SID&S forum like we did in EDS, I think we'd see a lot less of this stuff that's verging on pro/permissiveness. I'm not sure what those changes would be just now, but, change would help.
I agree with this. I sort of 'realised' for the first real time last week that I'm trying to justify what I do/have been doing lately as 'normal'. 'I haven't eaten for _______, but it's fine 'cos other people do it more/'I don't self-harm enough for it to be a problem' or whatever. But if I genuinely think it's normal, then I wouldn't try and hide it from my friends and family, because I wouldn't see a problem with them knowing.
Hi; i've been watching this thread on and off... I haven't read all the posts yet [sorry! please don't be mad at me for it]
as I was someone who posted in the forum about SI compared to smoking, I wanted to give my input.
First of, I do NOT condone SI in any way shape or form... if I ever thought someone was thinking about it I would try incredibly hard to stop them before they made that first cut [btw, i think stickying the cutting warning label on all threads is a good idea too]. I SI, and want to recover.. but unfortunately it's not an easy battle for me [I'm mentioning this only to help explain the context where my point of view comes from]
However, I answered the thread about why I thought smoking was more acceptable. Not because I wanted to justify SI; but I think sometimes understanding why there is more of a stigma about something [e.g. SI vs. Smoking] can help us work towards reducing the stigma. I think sometimes the stigma prevents people from getting help.
That being said, if those threads are starting to give people the idea that cutting is ok; it would be better not to have them.... I don't know if that's making anysense or not.
Sorry for making this long... I think this is a very good discussion.
Remember there's no such thing as a small act of kindness.
Every act creates a ripple with no logical end. ~ Scott Adams
I still think there is this whole divide down RYL that those who have ed's "suffer" from it.
Where as those who self harm bring it all down on their own heads. And I think that is a major problem, especially on a website full of teenage girls. You may stop them self harming but you are pushing them towards being anorexic or bulimic unless attitudes change.
