But if your only scratching yourself, its not really a problem is it. No damage and if that gives you release then so be it.
What I am saying is that if you don't discuss self harm on a scale of which is worse, people will think getting stitches is the norm, or everyone hits veins. Because the only place on this website where self harm is spoken about is on the first aid board, and that's when people have gone too far and need help.
I'm not saying normalise it. I'm saying be open about it, if this kind of cutting is less bad that another kind of cutting, why hide that information from those who would use it to keep themselves safe? All you are doing is wanting to put others more at risk and frankly I think thats grossly irresponsible, people need to be in full posession of the facts to draw their own opinions
how many people started off as scratching themselves and went onto to really severe wounds. I know I did. The problem isn't the severity. The problem is that people are harming themselves and justifying it and saying it's okay when it isn't. And the more people say "oh that's okay, you're not going to deep" the more people go.... "i can just cut whenever becasue it could be worse". If you go through all the support boards where posts mention cutting, you rarely (if ever) find someone saying, cutting isn't right! It's not going to help for much longer, it's going to get worse and you're going to end up doing damage you don't want. It's always "oh that's okay. well done for stopping". Great for stopping! That IS good. But it's not 'okay'. It's never going to be okay! I think that is a horrible thing to say that I want to put others more at risk. So I should just say "oh sure, only cut this deep becasue that way you're not going to have to get stitches". How is that being responsible.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
I'm not saying don't encourage people to get help.
But I am saying safe cutting should be discussed. Obviously it's not alright to cut, everyone with at least one braincell knows that. But for people to know when it really is serious is useful. If you think stitches are the norm then you won't realise that it is that dangerous. It's not saying it's ok, the same as saying drinking isn't good for you but the government reccomends up to 3 units a day for females. That's providing advice for what is a safe level and when you are really putting yourself at risk, I'd say it's the same thing.
You say obviously everyone knows that it's not alright to cut. But they don't. You come to a site where majority of people cut and constantly tell each other it's okay and you start thinking that it IS okay to harm yourself and the rest of the world has it wrong. When you normalise it, it becomes "okay" and that is dangerous.
And when did the government start reccomending 3 units of alcohol for females? What is a unit? As far as I know in Austrlia if you have more then the reccomended 2 standard drinks more than 3/4 days a week, you are binge drinking and have a problem... sometimes doctors prescribe red wine becasue there is something in that particular type of berry that helps with your health, but they are currently researching that to find out what the exact component of the red wine helps so they can stop having to precribe alcohol.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
In certain mindsets, I know I tend to get frustrated with people wanting me not to cut, in the sense that "it's my body and my choice." But when I'm thinking clearly, I know that's not right. I think the issue is that people look at self-harm with such horror sometimes, when there are things like smoking, binge drinking, etc. that are just as harmful in other ways and often used for the same purposes.
Now I'm not saying I want to see SI "accepted" in society as alcohol and tobacco are--the opposite actually. If society is going to be so opposed to SI, which I completely think they should (in the sense of it being bad, not opposed as in SI-ers are idiots or something), then I think we need to start looking at other self-destructive behaviors this way as well, and realizing that as a society that is lax on alcohol and tobacco laws we are "enabling" those forms of self-abuse.
Uk government suggests 2-3 units for females 3-4 units for males.
And my god are you patronising, just because you are recovered doesn't make you holier than thou, you still have your own demons don't you? People don't tell people it is ok to cut, they might say "it's ok" to be reassuring, or "it will be ok", but I'm yet to see someone say carry on cutting it's ok. People might say "yeah you may not be ready to recover, but here's something to work on". Same as on the ED forum, no ones gonna say purging is ok,but they might say try and cut down on purging and they'll give advice about don't brush your teeth straight away as that causes more damage. That's talking about limiting the damage, which is precisely what I'm going on about with cutting. How come it's ok to talk about it with ED's but not with cutting?
Location: A Dark Place Somewhere North Of The Border
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I agree with most of what you have said Jess. I disagree with some things and what have you but mostly the point that Heidi Tiger raised about saying it's ok or it will be ok to reassure people shouldn't that be encouraged becasue by doing that surely people are not going to get stuck in the vicious circle of omg i did this si and its so bad i hate myself so im going to do it more... becasue i think that one of the major keys to recovering is breaking that circle to begin with. However what you said about people saying where to si and stuff yeah I agree that's wrong because people who do scratch or whatever are going to go onto do worse si the you end up with a bigger problem.
I'm not trying to argue here I'm just trying to make a point and say my opinion.. sorry if i offended anyone
Dianne
xx
Patronising? Where have I said that everyone should recover? WHERE! I haven't. How dare you accuse me of being "holier than thou". I never said it wasn't okay to REASSURE people. I Did say it wasn't okay to tell people that CUTTING IS OKAY! The whole thread is about that! And you CONSTANTLY see people on here saying that cutting is okay! And it isn't! THAT is what I have been saying.
No one ever says that ed's are okay! Those who do go to pro sites. Sure they may not be ready to recover but they ALWAYS tell people that it's horrible and something they wish they had never started. They don't say "oh it's okay, it could be worse".
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
I just find it slightly hypocritical, that's my opinion, doubtless others have differing ones.
But that's why I dare.
And I think you will find I've never said cutting is ok, I'm saying it's a scale of damage and being open and honest and reassuring people is the way forward. Cotton wool isn't. Don't treat people like they are stupid.
I think most people are in agreement self harm is generally an action to a reaction, so of course it may help to focus on why people self harm instead of the act itself.
The thing is, & I'm going to challenge this, those of you that say you don't want to stop self harming & why is it so bad if it's not damaging anyone else, if you believe self harm isn't bad, why do you want to hurt yourself in places people can't see?
Surely if part of you didn't see self harm as so bad you wouldn't wear long sleeves/shorts/ etc, you wouldn't mind who saw it because hey, using your logic here, self harm isn't bad.
Agreed, and well phrased!
I do consider my self harm to be fairly normal. I'm not ashamed of it. I wear short sleeves and shorts. If someone asks, I tell them. It is not my problem if they don't understand.
Oh how i'd love to quote some fun statistics here, but alas i can't due to rules, bugger it.
Either way there are two sides of the argument & both i've dealt with, when i spoke at the self harm conference i went away feeling awful because there were so many who seemed to hurt more than me & it could have influenced or encouraged me at that point, i don't know, it was almost four years ago.
& some people found it incredibly helpful to know they weren't hurting themselves as bad as others & some went away feeling like they weren't doing enough damage.
The thing is, if RYL were to become more lax with certain rules & knowing about each others wounds you need to see which way the majority will swing, will most feel they are not hurting themselves enough which would lead to more problems, or would the majority feel better in knowing they didn't hurt themselves as bad?
Agreed, and well phrased!
I do consider my self harm to be fairly normal. I'm not ashamed of it. I wear short sleeves and shorts. If someone asks, I tell them. It is not my problem if they don't understand.
Thank you for this.
Because it was something i was pulled up on, i don't consider self harm to be a good thing or normal or ok, but if i have scars or cuts i don't let it affect what i wear. (I mean no way am i walking around in hot pants in this ****ing weather).
But some people do & i think that just contradicts their argument, if it's normal & okay why are you covering up? I don't understand.
Which then leads on to the attention seeker argument.
Location: A Dark Place Somewhere North Of The Border
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Quote:
Originally Posted by <alive>
No one ever says that ed's are okay! Those who do go to pro sites. Sure they may not be ready to recover but they ALWAYS tell people that it's horrible and something they wish they had never started.
id say the same as that about my si though i started off with scratches but then they weren't enough now im fighting a full on addiction life would be so much easier if i hadnt even started si'ing and now i really worry about triggering people i just think that any harmful addiction should be promoted as NOT GOOD to make people aware of the truth of SH etc
I run alot of forums and workshops mostly with grade 8 and 9 kids.... so.... 14/15. And often it is at that age where young people start to drift into that mindset of harming themselves. I have spoken and told my story to hundreds of kids and I have always said the same thing (even when I was still cutting). Cutting is a really bad way to cope. It is a terrible thing to put your body through, not to mention your friends and family. I wish I had never started becasue I have scars that I will bear for the rest of my life inside and out! It doesn't matter how badly you cut, whether it's a scratch or a deep wound. It is still harming your body and it is a terrible way to cope. If I could I would go on international television and say the same damn thing. Cutting is BAD! Just becasue you're doing it in a way that some percieve to be safe, does not mean that cutting is okay. It is not okay. You can reassure people that things will get better, but you can't reassure someone and say it's okay cause you only cut this deep. It's not okay that you only cut this deep. It's not okay that you cut. It's a sign that something is really very wrong. And if you're cutting and not getting help becasue cutting helps, that's even worse!
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
Jess, I totally understand where you're coming from. I'm not one to post about when I've cut or whatever, but if I ever did, I don't think (perhaps looking back a few hours/days later) I'd appreciate the idea that people thought that it was okay that I've done what I have. I'd rather have people who asked me why I chose to take that action rather than basically just telling me, you know, it could be worse, don't worry about it.
I think this is a great point, and something that I try to reply with and I know many others do, too. Asking why you cut, why you've pruged, why you've taken drugs etc is the root to the problem, and the only way anyone si ever going to get some real, constructive support is through actually exploring the issues behind everything.
I wish I had never started purging becasue I have acid reflux and a scarred oesophagus that I will have for the rest of my life It doesn't matter how often you purge, whether it's once or many times a day. It is still harming your body and it is a terrible way to cope. If I could I would go on international television and say the same damn thing. Purging is BAD! Just becasue you're doing it in a way that some percieve to be safe, does not mean that purging is okay. It is not okay. You can reassure people that things will get better, but you can't reassure someone and say it's okay cause you only purge. It's not okay that you only purge this often. It's not okay that you purge. It's a sign that something is really very wrong. And if you're purging and not getting help becasue purging helps, that's even worse!
Location: A Dark Place Somewhere North Of The Border
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimee in Wonderland
I think this is a great point, and something that I try to reply with and I know many others do, too. Asking why you cut, why you've pruged, why you've taken drugs etc is the root to the problem, and the only way anyone si ever going to get some real, constructive support is through actually exploring the issues behind everything.
I couldn't agree more with you Aimee, plus whenever someone tells me not to SH it makes me so mad like they think its their descision to make. Besides SH is a coping mechanism for many people but to cope with what.... that's exactly what we need to be asking more people on here I think.
