If you don't mind me asking, why were you in support of Brexit? I think you're in the US(?) so would be interested to hear your take on it. What was the coverage like over there? Were people generally for or against it or was it pretty split? Sorry, lots of questions and slightly off-topic!
I am from the USA, and I'm a staunch anti-globalist. I'm a nationalist at heart and I saw the writing on the wall with the EU. For years already there were talk about a North American Union in model with the EU. To see the EU begin to fail gave me hope. No country should relinquish its sovereignty to an international entity like the EU. I also personally feel a bit of connection to Britain as well, I can trace my family back to a noble family in the 1200s. The reason my family ended up in the USA was because one was gifted land in Virginia by King George II.
As far as the coverage over here. Due to our own elections it was minimal. The USA seemed to mostly support it, our leaders didn't, but regular citizens were certainly behind it.
Thanks for explaining, that's interesting to know. I am also ridiculously impressed that you can trace your family back to the 1200s-my attempts to start a bit of a family tree were thwarted very early on by the fact that my parents don't even know the names of their own grandparents!
As far as the coverage over here. Due to our own elections it was minimal. The USA seemed to mostly support it, our leaders didn't, but regular citizens were certainly behind it.
I remember Obama telling UK they would go to the 'back of the queue' in trade talks with US - an odd statement considering there would be a new president (no doubt assumed it would be Clinton).
Boris Johnson was correct when he said " I think there’s a weird paradox when the president of the United States, a country that would never dream of sharing its sovereignty over anything, instructs or urges us politely to get more embedded in the EU, which is already making 60% of our laws.”
What Boris didn't know what that Obama would love to see US compromising its sovereignty. People in US understood that better in last election. Obama went to UN to get "deals" verified while ignoring his own congress. Even former Obama voters were getting nervous
Last edited by Isoverity : 24-11-2016 at 03:21 PM.
I would say, more so now than ever before. Lots of people in the UK are so angered about Trump getting in. At first I was scared but, he's backing down on so many of his policies he is making his presidency a joke and he hasn't even officially started yet.
I also think America need to look at the system with Hillary winning the popular vote. Again, an absolute joke that you can win the popular vote and not get in.
I would say, you've made your bed, lie in it BUT, as I feel that could potentially affect the UK/ other parts of the world, I kind of hope America doesn't go down the pan. Oh well, 4 yrs and the nightmare will be over.
Life can be beautiful if you let it.
Step back, breathe and take it in
I would say, more so now than ever before. Lots of people in the UK are so angered about Trump getting in. At first I was scared but, he's backing down on so many of his policies he is making his presidency a joke and he hasn't even officially started yet.
I also think America need to look at the system with Hillary winning the popular vote. Again, an absolute joke that you can win the popular vote and not get in.
I would say, you've made your bed, lie in it BUT, as I feel that could potentially affect the UK/ other parts of the world, I kind of hope America doesn't go down the pan. Oh well, 4 yrs and the nightmare will be over.
Alright, Sovereignty is likely going to come in here and show me up when it comes to refutation, but I'm going to take a shot at it.
Firstly, Trump has not flipped on anything important except appointing a special prosecutor to go after Hillary Clinton. The Wall is still coming and funds have already been allocated to it's construction. He still is supporting a temporary moratorium on immigration from Muslim countries, and extreme vetting for refugees, AND turning away those we cannot vet properly. Mexico and Canada are already preparing for renegotiation of NAFTA. He still plans to withdraw from the TPP. He still plans to deport 3 million illegal immigrants as a start. Finally he is still planning on pressuring NATO members to increase their military spending to the levels agreed upon by NATO. So, again, Nothing important changes.
As far as the popular vote, The only western nation that has direct democracy for their leaders is Switzerland to my knowledge, every where else has proportional representation or a system similar to the USA. Additionally, California, Washington, Nevada, and New Mexico all have extremely lax voting regulations that allow for resident illegal immigrants to register to vote. California and Wahington in particular have ruled it discrimination to not allow resident illegal immigrants to register to vote in violation of federal law. Some estimates put the number of non citizens voting this past election at over 3 million, and I highly doubt they voted for the man who wantsto deport them, so there goes her popular vote lead.
America is not going down the pan, and judging by the Liberal pushback from his election, I'd guarantee Trump is in for 2 terms. Johnathan Pie said it best, you can’t win if all you do is try to label your opponents hateful insults, and already American Liberals are going right back to that strategy despite the disaster this election was for them.
The wall where some of it is going to be a fence..ok. That's not a wall is it. He will back off about a few more policies. I'm pretty sure. At the end of the day, the president of the united states tends to be nothing more than a puppet on a string. Look at George W. Also, like Brexit in the UK a lot of people that voted out, de-negged once they saw the lies. Equally the same has happened in the US. Hopefully the next term the democrats actually put someone good up to run against Trump because the only reason he really got in was because Hillary was a bad candidate.
Also, a vote is a vote. It doesn't really matter who voted, If they are entitled to live in the states/ there is a law for them to be able to vote, then it counts as a vote. I know the UK is pretty bad with democracy as well, but I believe in the US there have been a good number of presidents that have got in having lost the popular vote, which in my opinion isn't right.
Life can be beautiful if you let it.
Step back, breathe and take it in
I said rather specifically it was a violation of federal law. Federal law overrides any local or state ordinance. Without the votes of non citizens, Hillary loses the popular vote. So no, a vote is not a vote when it violates the law.
Also, wall, fence its semantics at the end of the day. It is a physical barrier to aid in border enforcement.
Also, a vote is a vote. It doesn't really matter who voted, If they are entitled to live in the states/ there is a law for them to be able to vote, then it counts as a vote. I know the UK is pretty bad with democracy as well, but I believe in the US there have been a good number of presidents that have got in having lost the popular vote, which in my opinion isn't right.
Even in the US people don't know why there is a difference between electoral votes and popular votes.
Its the Unites STATES of America and not the United CITIZENS of America.. Forgive the caps but that's a big difference people miss. The states are meant to be their own entities within a federal framework. A candidate for president has to win states and not individuals. States have unique interests and populations.
If the popular vote was all that mattered there would be no reason for candidates to even campaign in many states with lower populations. They would be left out more or less.
Now in a state like New York 25% of the population belongs to a labor union. The unions tell their members who to vote for and they make big donations - almost always to the same party. Lots of states don't have big political machines to pull elections. The Electoral College system of states voting makes it harder for machine states to decide federal elections for whole nation.
Now with Trump he won more states but like with Brexit he won with states that haven't voted for a Republican in almost 30 years. Brexit won with more Labour votes than people expected and that's kind of what happened in US. More liberals, minorities and women voted for Trump than media promised. Its true Clinton was a hideous candidate but on larger scale people were weary of being told they had to stop focusing on national and personal interests in order to be better "citizens of the world". That played against Democrats AND the GOP leadership at national level.
This is why I voted for Trump. I have friends who work at the Indianapolis Carrier plant. Yes, they didn't save all the jobs, but they sure as hell saved more than Hillary would've.
