Here is the problem:
Read the reply from Blithe Bones of Laden and then read the reply from Crumple...
THAT is the kind of thing we are dealing with. Typsee in particular is getting stones thrown her way from BOTH ENDS of the spectrum. I am not criticizing either of these members but I'm using them as examples regarding the extremely different points of view we get. We get complaints from different people who believe the exact opposite on an issue.
Some members might think we are waaay too lenient, while the others are horrified at how strict we are. For some reason, both ends of the spectrum take it out on typsee, who is an AWESOME mod. It really bothers me when I know a mod is getting argumentative messages from one person telling her that she's a total prude, then gets another argumentative message telling her she's far too lenient on sexual material! What do you expect her to do? And to criticize her for making this thread??? Good grief.
I agree with those who have said it is primarily a problem when ordinary threads get turned into something sexual. I think mildly adult topics are fine as long as they are labeled as such. I can see how the Naturists room could be annoying to some, but it does not break the rules regarding sexually graphic material YET. If it does then alert a mod ASAP, and I'll be happy to deal with it.
If you see something sexually inappropriate PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE alert a moderator. It gets really frustrating to see complaints coming from anyone who NEVER sends alerts.
Crysainta, I didn't think anybody here has made any personal attacks on Typsee, just on the issue. (I may have missed something, however.) Typsee is a brilliant mod and has only made this thread for the good of RYL and to allow a mature discussion - so I should hope none of the replies have been offending to her personally.
In the end, it comes down to what you, Aimee, and AD had said. Alert a mod. Especially on your last point - a lot of people complain that "the forums don't have enough mods", but I wonder.. how many use the alert a mod function? - I know I have in the past and it gets the job done.
Either way, Typsee is brilliant, and simply trying to let us discuss something about the forum in a mature manner, let's not critise her when she's done absolutely nothing wrong.
As I said, I don't even like The Naturists Room, all these spam threads are annoying, there's atleast 3 on the ONE board. I think that's a tad ridiculous. And when you say "We don't need a spam room for every different hobby, personal belief, sexuality, culture, or music genre." I totally agree.
Theres four on this board. Rainbow Room, Hug Room, Naturist Room and The RYL House.
I think decreasing the number of spam threads should be considered, they take up space and really they are all the same.
Oh and t'other Aimee speaks wise words, Typsee is a wonderful mod and is only trying to do the best for RYL.
I often see the idea expressed that mods are "very hard working" and that its up to members to make sure
mods can know what's going on by sending alerts. While I know its true modding can be hard, and especially at a site like RYL where real emergencies may arise - I always find very obvious things going un-addressed. So the alert thing is a diversion for me even though I see its a good tool .I mentioned recent "tattoo" threads in General.
I don't care if people are into tattoos. Certainly one tattoo thread in General won't stop the world. However, it's not uncommon in General that one Tattoo thread in General makes for more of them. I have seen 5 going at a time in General. Throw those in with all the "your hawt!..no your hawtter!" spam threads and General can like an unweeded garden tbh. Now even that is not my main concern. My Main concern is that when their are posted rules about not putting Taattoo threads in General - but they show up anyway in obvious ways - it conveys that real impression that nobody is watching forums.
New York city reduced murders from 2400 a year to less than 600 (lowest level since the 60's). They did this but paying attention to small things they used to ignore. They used to just accept rocks thrown through windows and graffitti. But then they realised that conveyed the message that there was no "presence" of law and it invited larger crimes. RYL regularly conveys it has no presence (at least in General) by letting even very obvious threads stay in the wrong places.
Just recently a person posted a thread titled "Tattoo Help" in General. Harley has posted that threads about Tattoo, piercings and sex questions go in "General Support and Advice". Now I can understand a poster not being aware of the criteria and I can understand a busy mod not seeing such a post - however that post was up for 6 days. Not 6 minutes, not 6 hours - 6 days ( http://recoveryourlife.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=7900 )
If mods can't address a post that says "Tattoo Help" within 6 days then something is wrong. Moving posts from one forum to another is modding 101. Sure I could have sent an alert but after already addressing this sort of things 5 times in the past few weeks but I waited to see how long the post would stay.
The problem is not that mods are "too busy". The problem is that there are too few mods, too few of existing ones that are around, and then too few that actually do anything when things are right in their face. If threads obviously titled with matter designated for another forum are left for 6 days then "alerts" aren't the problem - "being" alert is.
Concernings the "too strict/too lenient thing and mods can't win issue".
I have said many times in the past that mods can be tigers over trifles and but let glaring things go by. Make an emo joke or a spicey joke and some mods pull or edit threads/posts - but if a person with a 1 or 2 post history posts in General asking for kids to identify themselves by sexual criteria nothing happens because its not politically correct for some people. I have not said anywhere that RYL should be squeaky clean and Disneyesque. I don't worry about kids seeing a dirty joke or a post from a person who finds French bread erotic. I was here 3 years without making any issue with "mature" content and there was even MORE of it in the past. Now however there has been a skewing of standards to where a "joke" is a serious issue but a stranger asking kids in "General" to identify themselves sexually is something warm and fuzzy (for some). Being a dilligent mod is nice but if you drop the ball on serious things that could get a kid in trouble then there is no advantage. At most of my sites a new person asking kids to identify themselves via sexual things would be shut down immediately. AT RYL such weakness is considered by some to be "thoughtful" and that's sad and inexcusable. Any teacher or parent would need to have their head examined to have a kid on a site where such things are allowed. A kid could end up a sex slave in Outer Marmitistan with such consideration.
Keep in mind my more recent concerns of the past also came up along with Meet issues. RYL is much more social of a site then most other sites. I can't think of any forum I have ever seen that has such a huge offsite element. If you combine a forum atmosphere where even basic rules of posting and common sense aren't followed; where trifles can get modded heavy and serious breaches of protocol are ok; where there is a unique off site social factor (which might not be wise anyway tbh) that can be taken advantage of - all these things together can invite problems that can really mess up someones life never mind the forum stuff.
I know running a site like this is hard. In fact, I think it gets made "too hard" by not even recognising basic principles. Administering this site could be safer AND easier by LOTS. The problem isn't the alert button. The problem is that awarness ( in "General " forum) vibrates at a very low level for whatever reason and blaming members and alerts just avoids the issues. Potty talk is not the overall issue. Sex discussions have always been here.This forum has many advantages and some people with talents. It also invites trouble in a naive fashion beyond anything I have ever seen at an established forum and I have to say something for conscience sake if nothing else. Some people will have issue with me about that but they don't like to see whats wrong as much as try to see something wrong with the people who try to point it out.
First off, most other websites I've been on haven't allowed kids under 13 to post in on discussion boards or forums, or enter chatrooms at all. That's mainly because in the US there are laws prohibiting websites from collecting information from kids under 13 without their parents permission (I know at one point Neopets had a form that parents could sign and send in by fax to let their kids use certain parts of the site), but my understanding is that the laws in the UK are less strict. So it's hard to compare RYL to other sites that have kids under 13 on them as I don't actually know any such sites.
In RYL v2, we had a rule saying no-one under the age of thirteen could join. However, this didn't work and we were still getting younger people joining. The thing is, seeing as this is a support site, we're not going to tell someone under thirteen to leave the site, simply because they've joined because they need help.
Quote:
Just recently a person posted a thread titled "Tattoo Help" in General. Harley has posted that threads about Tattoo, piercings and sex questions go in "General Support and Advice". Now I can understand a poster not being aware of the criteria and I can understand a busy mod not seeing such a post - however that post was up for 6 days. Not 6 minutes, not 6 hours - 6 days ( http://recoveryourlife.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=7900 )
But, that was one thread. If someone had sent an alert in, then I bet that would have gone within the day. You don't see many threads that don't get moved when they should have done. And, to be honest, RYL is better moderated than any other forums that I've been on, that the odd thread in the wrong forum doesn't really make much of a difference.
"When the planes hit the Twin Towers, as far as I know none of the phone calls from the people on board were messages of hate or revenge - they were all messages of love. If you look for it, I've got a sneaky feeling you'll find that love actually is all around.”
So you are blaming everything on the eight mods and Harley?
Not too mention the Chat Mods who must be run off their feet.
Nine people are modding a very large forum where I would imagine there are quite often bigger problems than where a tattoo thread is. I know thats your point but I really dont think its fair that you are saying its their fault. Maybe they do need to notice the smaller things, but you not pressing the 'Alert A Mod' button is definatly not helping.
I totally agree with you about brand new members making their first posts about sexuality or boy girl ratios, and I know that some posts get removed. No one is around 24/7 so no one but the mods know what is happening and what is removed.
Use the Alert A Mod button, dont just sit watching, it won help anything.
Ok ompletley off subject, but on the whole spam thread thing. Cant we have a vote or something and maybe have just one spam thread per board?
The likes of the hug room, to me that sounds supportive. So put that one in GSA. The naturists room, put that in F&D, RYL house, put it in intro.
For example, if you look at vets corner. They have 2 forums. They have 2 spam threads. The support one is kept very supportive. The members who use it regularly go in and ensure that a supportive atmosphere is upheld. This also helps with the guilt of people making loads of support posts for smaller issues. Then theres the fireside room in general, which is kept for just spam. Non triggering posts.
I think that this is how it should be. As far as I am aware, the ED boards are the same. one thread for support on thread for spam.
Personally I think that having loads of spam threads in everyboard s just making it difficult for new members to find somewhere they feel that they can post.
Kim I agree, Rainbow Room I can appreciate and RYL House because thats been around for ages but I dont think we need all the others, they are very intimidating I think, im too scared to post in any of the spam threads bar one.
No one has attacked typsee here, but she's had to deal with people being rude.
There is no excuse for not using the Alert button, Jack. You are using a tattoo thread as your main example, which is quite weak. Harley didn't make up the "What not to post" list. I did. I have since questioned myself on including that one on the list, since it isn't a terribly serious topic. Maybe because I also have chat mod duties and have literally spent hours dealing with other more urgent issues on RYL, I missed it. Maybe if you had done what I have previously asked you to do and messaged me I could have moved it right away? You say it's the glaring issues like tattoo threads in General that mods miss, but not long ago you claimed it was the evil den of sexuality that mods weren't handling. I am beginning to think that you will find fault with RYL no matter what. A person who asks about the sexual orientation of others after only one or two posts IS watched, but it would be unfair to immediately ban a person who could just be a confused kid wondering if anyone else like him/her is around. We have dealt with real and more serious issues in trying to keep sexual predators away from RYL. There is a good deal you do not know about.
Ok ompletley off subject, but on the whole spam thread thing. Cant we have a vote or something and maybe have just one spam thread per board?
The likes of the hug room, to me that sounds supportive. So put that one in GSA. The naturists room, put that in F&D, RYL house, put it in intro.
very good idea....
they get kinda annoying because they're posted in so much y'miss other posts mad ein other threads,so they don't make it onto the main forum index...
does that make ANY sense?
i dont think it prob. does but i know what i mean.
spam: on the F&D board, maybe have a subforums link to a spam room. all the spam threads could go in there, leaving just specific support ones (like the queendom and the vets one....(dunno if there are others in other support rooms) in their original place.
adult: in the control panel, put a switch that turn on/off adult labelled threads. when a member joins and puts in their age, they get either a red or green membership, red (restricted) for underage (mods decide how old) and green for over-age. make the memberships update automatically on birthdays, and have the on/off switch in green memberships only. the red memberships would be set to off and could only be changed after they turn green.
when posting a thread, maybe an option be set (next to the labels?) appropriate/unappropriate and it automatically bans red members from looking at them. this way, I feel RYL protects itself, if it has one definate rule, below a certain age can't view this type of threads, end of story...then they are safe.
for younger members posting support threads, maybe have an 'adult question/support' label that doesn't block out?
Mand, South Wales, Full-time working, single mother to 2 scarily independent girls.
I AM A PROUD PLUMERIA SISTER
We have new mods, which should help alleviate the situation.
Yes something like a tattoo help thread in general is against the rules, but compared to people tip sharing, posting good bye notes, having triggering avatars and sigs, and flaming, it's a pretty small issues. The mods don't have endless time to deal with every single little problem that comes along. Sometimes they have to deal with the big stuff right away while they have time, and then let the little stuff go until they can come back to it.
Yes it might give the impression that there isn't a huge mod presence in General, but it means that the serious things that are dangerous and triggering are taken care of.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
I think your theory might be a little complicated for RYLs system with the red and the green members and all that (especially since those are our Mod colors)
However, I THINK that it can be set up so that you can ignore threads with a certain label on them, and it might be possible for everyone who is under 16 say to be automatically set to ignore them. It won't totally "ban" them from looking at them, but they won't be able to see them when they look at the forum.
I think probably a simpler option would be to add something to the RYL terms and conditions or the rules that states that there is the potential of their being adult content on RYL and that it is all clearly marked to protect the underage members of RYL. And that RYL is no responsible if any underage member is exposed to adult material after disregarding the label.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
i have some ideas.
adult: in the control panel, put a switch that turn on/off adult labelled threads. when a member joins and puts in their age, they get either a red or green membership, red (restricted) for underage (mods decide how old) and green for over-age. make the memberships update automatically on birthdays, and have the on/off switch in green memberships only. the red memberships would be set to off and could only be changed after they turn green.
when posting a thread, maybe an option be set (next to the labels?) appropriate/unappropriate and it automatically bans red members from looking at them. this way, I feel RYL protects itself, if it has one definate rule, below a certain age can't view this type of threads, end of story...then they are safe.
for younger members posting support threads, maybe have an 'adult question/support' label that doesn't block out?
While I like the idea of having an option to hide posts labeled as adult, I don't agree with making it madatory for users under a set age. If kids want to see adult content, there's no use trying to block them out, and making it more difficult for them to view it simply makes it more attractive to find a way to do so. There's nothing to stop kids from simply creating an account with a fake date of birth, as I've seen kids do routinely on other websites, and I don't much like the idea creating strict divisions in the site based on a somewhat arbitrary measure (in that people of any given age can vary significantly in maturity and experiences, and people don't fundimentally change on their birthday compared to how they were the day before in any way that should make them suddenly mature enough to view 'adult' content).
Also, if people were able to choose to filter out adult posts, I assume they wouldn't want to view adult content posted by younger users either.
mandimoo.
i don't agree with either or your points.
spam: tbh. i hate the number of subforums there are already. &i don't think another is needed for spam. the whole point of the rainbow room being in general is that it's there for general chat, it doesn't belong in f&d. the same way esther's queendom doesn't either. it's an ed-forum thread.
adult: i don't understand what there is to stop kids "underage" to just lie & therefore be permitted with a green label, or whatever.
plus. i think there are a lot of underage kids on this website that may be maturer than the older ones, frankly. adult threads are labelled adult. the youngest ive seen on this is 11. i dont think this website shows anything that is unsuitable for an 11year old.
