Okay i'll try and keep this short.I can see BOTH sides of the argument and am going to try and put across my opinions on both.
**Okay on the side of all tools bein triggering: yes i have been triggered by words like 'knife' and 'razor' but thats prob cos i dont use those. I always see those as the step that i'm scared to take-they will make my scars worse and less easy to hide. So they make me a little uncomfortable. However i accept it is MY choice to open *TRIGGERING* threads.
**ON the other hand i get triggered by simple things-pictures of scissors, or scissors around so bubblewrapping RYL wouldnt be a good idea. Ok i feel a bit triggered but if it gets banned on here then I think that could make things a lot more difficult cause i see these things everday and 'tools' are mentioned all the time in stories in magazines etc wiht NO warning. If we have to face these day to day then they should be on here, cause if you want to avoid it then dont read triggering posts.
In conclusion! Its complicated. I think people should maybe just use their head a little when posting. If there is nothing to gain from naming a 'tool' then maybe don't? I dont see any point in changing the rules cause we all have to live in the real world where this stuff is unavoidable and on here we can choose not to read it.
To ban everything at all would be ridiculous. People mention tools in their usernames, in poems, when they need help. If there is something that could be seen as a tip it is edited. What is wrong with the rules? Banning things completley is going to far. Enough things are banned as it is.
maybe banning it is going too far but it needs to be considered about whether it's triggering and whether there are better ways to protect people who are likely to be triggered. i know when i started self harming, i didn't use razor blades. i got the idea to use them from the internet.
i also think that, though it's not pro or anti self harm, the site is called "recover your life". therefore we need to take it quite seriously if there is feeling that some things are damaging to recovery. clearly, there is a divide in this opinion.
maybe rather than allowing or banning something, we could think of a way to pr... i'm tired and can't think of the answer to sent...
I think its safe to assume that everyone on this site knows exactly what they could or would use if they intended to self-harm, and its also safe to assume that they've used that object to self-harm in the past. It seems like every week theres a new restriction on what we can or can't say, and not being allowed to mention tools would just be another step towards cotton-wooling us and making us feel restricted. And I'm pretty sure that there are some (and probably many) people here who would leave RYL if they felt too restricted here, which could obviously lead to worse problems for them in the future. It seems to me that pretty soon the word "cutting" will be banned for being "tip-sharing", and it'll go on like that until all we can say is "I did something I shouldn't have done" and what kind of support site won't let you actually get things off your chest?
that pretty much summed up my thinking, but i do agree with inventive tip sharing being stopped, i know once (not on here) someone said something that i later used, which is why i try not to mention tools. but i think those 2 are fine, i think everyone knows they're an option, it's not a big secret.
There will always be a happy ending. If its not happy then its not yet the end.
I think hey were only saying it because it does seem a bit silly you being shocked if someone mentions razors when you clearly have it in your name. We all know what your name means, no one is stupid.
Maybe they could just have different trigger labels then? Like *tools mentioned* or something I don't know. Then you wouldn't be able to just stuble accross it.
But to be honest. Everyone has their methods, they might learn a different one if they didn't know about razors etc but cutting is still cutting. You are not going to b able to stop that here and you can't bubble wrap everything up.
I am not attacking you for it! It may mean something different to you but to the vast majority of people on this site it is going to mean exactly what it says.
Our history was as a place that was neither pro nor anti, it was a place where we could just be. It was (and remains) the only place where that is possible.
This is where I miss ruin and the "darker side" of discussions we were allowed there =/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleutheros
The rules and guidelines we have currently seem to work well and I see no reason to change them.
Agree. In the end there's a certain amount of personal responsibility for your actions - if I know reading that others want to self harm will trigger me, I'll stick to general chat or just not read posts here. You have a choice to go read more posts and trigger yourself further.
For those doubts that swirl all around us
For those lives that tear at the seams
We know… we’re not what we’ve seen
For this dance we’ll move with each other
There ain’t no other step than one foot
Right in front of the other
i also think we are getting over the top trying to protect everybody from being triggred
QFT.
I really, really do think we're going overboard with the 'ohnoezacoupleofpeoplegettriggered' thing. Yes, people are going to get triggered, that's why there's a warning and rules.
I think the rules are fine as they are, they don't need changing.
I am going to state my point from both stand points, both support and First Aid.
On the support thing the point of needing support is because of wanting to hurt yourself. Any method of hurting yourself is something that you should NOT want to do and is something which regardless of the damage it does not always reflect on how I feel like I might sit here and press my nails into my hand for a bit because that would hurt and I want the pain, maybe a bit of bruising and blood. Someone with IDENTICAL emotions may then make a thread focussing on the fact that they have cut a huge gash in their arm with a razor and have needed x number of stitches and y units of blood put back into them via a transfusion. Which one is in more need of support because of their original thoughts that lead to the SH, NEITHER so why does the tool have to be mentioned. Yes we are a self harm site but the most important part of self harm is the actual emotions behind it. What causes us to do what we do not how each idividual person feels they should cut themselves.
From a First Aid point of view I have often come across things which have needed to be editted out wither this being the method or the number of stitches and these are things a lot of members wouldn't know about. Some of them being on forums where everyone can see and some which are VERY dangerous and therefore can lead to someones Self Harm progressng as a lot of the things wouldn't occur to most people. As Aidey says I also come across things in PMs that though I know could do harm I have never even thought that anyone would use them to harm themselves. Many of them do a lot of damage or at least have the potential to and so allowing every method to be allowed on RYL forums is a VERY bad idea as it will lead to people getting ideas where they can cause themselves more harm by doing things that can hurt them. It isn't just sharp things or burning yourself with different things/ chemicals that me and Aidey have seen, there are totally different things which I am stable and fine with seeing them as those kind of things have no effect on me whatsoever but to the majority of users on RYL they could cause a lot of problems and mentioning 'less common' methods of self harm could actually lead RYL down the wrong path and end up in it being closed down if it wasn't careful. In terms of the FAF, members can PM/ email any of the advisors with the info and we will get back to you ASAP, you could even PM more than 1 of us if you want to get a reply really quickly. Just because there isn't one of us online. In a lot of cases what you used to cut doesn't necessarily make a difference (yes, in some cases it does), it is more about what you need to do and how bad the cut is because even by using the same tool I know I could injure myself in several different ways so it's often not an indicator of the damage done & therefore isn't necessary in the forum. If we're not around then look elsewhere. The NHS Website has some great resourses, as do the rest of the links that we punblicise. Also read through our articles as often a lot of the questions asked could just be answered by them anyway.
All I'm trying to say is I don't feel that in most cases the tool is the most important aspect and should NOT be what is focussed. God, through my work I can think of several things which I doubt ANYONE on here has ever thought of using for self harm as they are pretty simple everyday household things yet I know ways in which they could cause some serious danger and I can think of reasons for people to do what I'm thinking of right at this moment. However, if I were to mention that and people's SH were to worsen or for someone to actually die then it would be me and the site that is actually at fault at the end of the day for publicising those ways.
Because of this I feel the rules should remain as they are as though it is a self harm website actual methods should not be the main focus. Why say "I want to slash myself across the wrist right now with...' when saying 'I'mhaving a bad time and want to cause myself some damage', it isn't really necessary to write down the methods in most cases and is a lot more triggering way of gaining support (and actually I feel less likely to support people who feel they need to use graphic explanations to get their feelings across).
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
When i joined i thought the rules stated that tools could not be mentioned in any posts.
And my name does not mean what you think it does so don't attack me for it.
Cutting may be cutting but some tools can do so much more damage than others so much more easily.
I'm sorry you feel attacked, and I am sure that it no one's intention but you must be able to see that you sound a little hypocritical? And even if you're name is intended to mean something different than the blatent obvious, you must understand that on a website like this, peoples first thoughts are going to go towards that so maybe it is something that you should consider changing if you are one of those people that finds the mention of tools triggered at bad times.
I agree with the general flow here: I don't think the rules need to be changed because I really it might be over-censoring a little, but members should be encouraged not to mention the use of ANY tools for fear of tipsharing/triggering. I think it might be a good idea, in R/V for example, that along with the "SH trigger" label that there was also maybe a "tools mentioned" label so that people can be sure they know what they are getting themselves in for when the open a thread to read it.
Personally I don't find the mentioning of tools a problem but I can see that for someone that is desperate, or dare I say it "new to the world of self harm" may draw ideas from others and that is something that we clearly would not want. However, many ideas can be drawn from many parts of this site so I can see it from both sides. I think the introduction of a "tools mentioned" label would help assure that people who are sensitive would not get triggered because they would know what was coming. I know that on a particularly bad day myself, I avoid certains threads because of the warning labels and find this approach very helpful.
I think people are forgetting that no one is suddenly going to go off and take advantage, mentioning razors/knives at any given opportunity.
But on occasion i have mentioned razor(s) without necessarily thinking. I just type it, because i type what's on my mind when i'm distressed, i don't always scrutanise everything i say out of fear of triggering others. I just..er..say it.
Like others i didn't know this rule was allowed, and i've often gone back and edited the "tool(s)" out of posts, but yes..i have mentioned them, not because it was necessarily important, but because i needed support on what was going on in my mind, and if the word razor pops out, it's not because i'm seeking attention or i believe it's important, it's just..what i'm thinking at the time.
I don't think the rules need to be changed. Like everyone else has said, you can only protect people so much before it's going a little *to* far.
It's such a fine line, between protected and keeping members safe, and not becoming overbearing with the "cotton wool" There are going to be things in every day life, that are purely accidental, that can give people ideas and tips on how to hurt themselves. I think an important part of recovery is learning to live with this and realise that not everything pertains to ones illness.
However, RYL is supposed to be a safe haven for everyone. A place where people who are going through similar things can come for support and camaraderie.
Personally, I have never liked the cotton wool affect. I hate over-active censorship with a passion, and I really do think that sometimes, people need to learn how to cope with things. I really worry that some people get so upset by some things that are so common place, and I worry how they will learn to cope. Yeah this should be a safe haven, but I would hate for it to give a false sense of security that saps peoples abilities to cope in the "real world". Life is, quite unfortunately, full of triggers and upsets.
In short, I do think that anything a bit creative where self harming oneself is concerned, should be kept secret, but things that are really obvious should be allowed. No one here is that stupid as to not realise "sharp means potential tool".
It's such a fine line, between protected and keeping members safe, and not becoming overbearing with the "cotton wool" There are going to be things in every day life, that are purely accidental, that can give people ideas and tips on how to hurt themselves. I think an important part of recovery is learning to live with this and realise that not everything pertains to ones illness.
However, RYL is supposed to be a safe haven for everyone. A place where people who are going through similar things can come for support and camaraderie.
Personally, I have never liked the cotton wool affect. I hate over-active censorship with a passion, and I really do think that sometimes, people need to learn how to cope with things. I really worry that some people get so upset by some things that are so common place, and I worry how they will learn to cope. Yeah this should be a safe haven, but I would hate for it to give a false sense of security that saps peoples abilities to cope in the "real world". Life is, quite unfortunately, full of triggers and upsets.
In short, I do think that anything a bit creative where self harming oneself is concerned, should be kept secret, but things that are really obvious should be allowed. No one here is that stupid as to not realise "sharp means potential tool".
