Yeah Kim, that's what I think too. People list meds they've had, how long they've been in treatment, how long they've been poorly for..... It's just, it doesn't feel right to me because I do feel it's competitive!? Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I think. x
-“And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom.” Anais Nin-
Allie, Mutt, Great Grandma, Hope and Humbug. I love you and miss you all. xx
Yeah Kim, that's what I think too. People list meds they've had, how long they've been in treatment, how long they've been poorly for..... It's just, it doesn't feel right to me because I do feel it's competitive!? Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what I think. x
Yep, I agree with this. I find it especially hard at the moment b/c I ma trying to recover etc and I don't honestly know how to tell my team that things are difficult without sh and assume that others are more deserving b/c of meds, etc.
"Everything is possible through Christ, who gives me strength". Phillipians 4:13
Yep, I agree with this. I find it especially hard at the moment b/c I ma trying to recover etc and I don't honestly know how to tell my team that things are difficult without sh and assume that others are more deserving b/c of meds, etc.
wanted to higlhight that bit..i think a lot of ud get stiuck in that...it doesnt seem
'serious' (in OUR mionfds) to others unless we can show how bad it all is
That is waht needs to change i think
Just wondering if we could create preventative threads. For example, how to reduce chances of self harming badly, things like, try not to drink before self harming, don't do it in shower/bath ... I suppose the opposite of that would be tip sharing though so hmm.
Also more info about how to avoid hospitalisation, lots of people may not be aware of services avaliable in their area, maybe a thread of helplines in the local area for particular issues that can be rung. Information about things like talking to your doctor and about the services that can be provided. When to ring your crisis team or A and E, I know I struggle to understand when I am struggling enough to do this.
Sorry these are just stabs in the dark biut silly.
But I being poor have only my dreams, I have spread my dreams under your feet ; tread softly as you tread on my dreams.
We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars.
Problem with that is you're saying telling people out to self harm more safely... that in a way can also lead to tip sharing. What you should be doing is helping people to get round things instead of self harming, not just doing it to a lesser degree as things can go wrong with SH, whether deep or not, whether it's a big OD or a small one, whether you have a tiny little burn or a large one and often it's not that easy to control. As well as that, I think a lot of people, when they drink, don't set out to drink and then SH, though I may be wrong, but when you drink you lose your inhibitions as well as alcohol actually being a depressive so for many it can actually bring on more of the feelings that make them want to self harm so it's that that does it, not wanting to SH.
I def agree with making help-lines/ support groups/ ways to get help which aren't just see your GP (for instance I sought counselling for free at a local young persons centre that does counselling for people between I think 11 right up to 25 with much shorter waiting lists) be known and other ways of coping but saying things like ways to SH in a 'safer' way could be counter productive and be seen as being 'pro' and what may be 'safer' for some may actually be worse than other people's SH and so worsen theres as well as there potentially being a fine line between that and tip sharing which could be crossed as the thread grows. I also think that picking out the bad points in SH and making sure you're not glamourising it, especially to people who've just started or are thinking about SH'ing for the first time is also a good idea as well as pointing them to the above ways of getting help.
Whilst I understand what you are saying Minty, I also agree with Kim that it might work in a back to front way. For example if you are saying, 'Don't do x before doing y'..... Someone might not have thought about doing that, but will possibly then try it because to them, it's a piece of information?
I've just completed a list of 'shalls' and shall nots' for my ED Recovery Plan, and whilst they are helpful for me, I'd never give them to someone else who suffers from an Eating Disorder; as they'd give tips. 'I shall not use x to control y'..... To me, that's okay because I do control x with y, and I need to get out of doing so.... But to another person, they might think, 'Oh I hadn't thought of that one' - and although many would say that isn't the sort of thing they'd do, I'm pretty sure a hell of a lot would, even if it's done subconciously.
-“And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom.” Anais Nin-
Allie, Mutt, Great Grandma, Hope and Humbug. I love you and miss you all. xx
I define myself by my diagnosis' & labels & difficulties & problems etc.
That's all I've ever known.
So, that's who I think I am.
I list them out & have an urge for them to be serious, severe, "worse" than others, sick but whatever, that's how I am.
I define myself by my diagnosis' & labels & difficulties & problems etc.
That's all I've ever known.
So, that's who I think I am.
I list them out & have an urge for them to be serious, severe, "worse" than others, sick but whatever, that's how I am.
But how would you feel were RYL to become a place when you couldn't do that?
Because either it'd be a positive thing in that you could focus more on the reasons and coping with the symptoms and might learn some things about yourself that aren't solely based around a diagnosis.
But equally it could be negative and you no longer felt like you could get proper support or you wouldn't know how to talk about your problems without the labels.
My guess is that for most people they'd initially experience the negatives,but gradually find the positives from it. But I'd be interested in your opinion as you admit that you are someone who relies on diagnoses.
I don't think it's "sick" at all; and I understand what you mean. You have learnt that your labels are what you are - but that isn't true. No one is their illness, a person can be poorly, but that doesn't make them 'it'.
I just don't think it's very helpful, as like you say you want them to be serious, and there are many others who are the same. It's possible that someone will see your list, and think 'Oh, I don't have that many I'm not worth help'.....? Does that make sense?
-“And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom.” Anais Nin-
Allie, Mutt, Great Grandma, Hope and Humbug. I love you and miss you all. xx
I think a hell of a lot of people seek reassurance from their labels and diagnosis's. I know I have done..... It's not easy to try to change the way you think; but it is possible.
-“And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom.” Anais Nin-
Allie, Mutt, Great Grandma, Hope and Humbug. I love you and miss you all. xx
I define myself by my diagnosis' & labels & difficulties & problems etc.
That's all I've ever known.
So, that's who I think I am.
I list them out & have an urge for them to be serious, severe, "worse" than others, sick but whatever, that's how I am.
OK, so you say you define yourself by your labels, but also by your difficulties and problems. Could you ignore the labels bit and discuss more about the difficulties and problems you are going through; a label or diagnosis doesn't define what you are, it is merely a part of your character, you are not that problem unless you see yourself that way and then it can lead to that.
The fact that when you list them out you have an urge for them to be more serious makes me think that for you writing them out would in fact only make you worse as you'll forever think "but if I had x too then I'd need more help, I've only got..... therefore that isn't enough". That ends up you getting into the mindframe of needing to be worse, mentally than you are as perhaps a 'coping mechanism' but at the end of it it will jst worsen factors as you'll never be totally happy that you're not the worst you could possibly be and then you won't be able to function at all.
That's the worry with writing out labels; others will see them and think "well I've not got enough" and then they look into others and start to find parts of those they fit into and low and behold they concentrate on negative things of a new disorder rather than trying to tackle the one they have. If you have that urge then you can bet many others do. As well as that, though you may define yourself as labels, would you like other people to define you as that, see you only as a list of diagnoses?
I've got several health problems, some mental, some physical. Some I have diagnoses for, some I don't. One of mine can be seen as a very negative label to have because of the connotations and I used to be terrified of anyone knowing and when people have found out, even recently, I've had some bad reactions to it. That is without them knowing everything. And being labelled for me and a lot of other people is not a good thing. I hate it and with one of my conditions I've actually 'tinkered' with the way it is written so it's not seen as the typical condition seen in the media but is one more suited to my own condition and that has become what a lot of people including doctors, use, if they use any because they know that like most, I like to be seen as a person first. One with problems yeah, but those don't necessarily have to be named and I don't feel the name of them defines who I am at all. Actually with one of my diagnoses, the image that instantly comes to mind in most people's heads is something totally different to what I am, yet I still have the right diagnosis, people's perceptions are just warped.
Diagnoses are there as a helpful medical tool so they can guide you through treatment and help you to know why x is happening. They are something that can be viewed badly and I know personally I'd prefer to answer a post where people put their current problems in, possibly as well as saying how they are causing such great problems right now, rather than them just putting a list of diagnoses that could be seen totally out of context.
I agree about when people list their diagnosis's it can be competitive. I myself have never been diagnosed with anything (mostly as I've never seen a doctor about any of this) I've never cut to the point of needing any stitches, heck, I barely have scars anymore. I've never purged or restricted to the point of needing hospitalization, nor have I ever actually tried to kill myself.
Sometimes it makes me feel like I'm not as ill as everyone else on this site, but then again, when I really think about it, it doesn't matter.
I still purge and still restrict, which is a problem. I cut for many years, which was still a problem. I feel suicidal and unsafe at times, which is still a problem. Just because I haven't been in any of the extreme situations which you often find on this site, doesn't mean I have less of a problem than other people. I'm still deserving of support and help.
I think this is what people have to try and remember when they start feeling like they aren't "ill enough"
Also more info about how to avoid hospitalisation, lots of people may not be aware of services avaliable in their area, maybe a thread of helplines in the local area for particular issues that can be rung. Information about things like talking to your doctor and about the services that can be provided. When to ring your crisis team or A and E, I know I struggle to understand when I am struggling enough to do this.
I personally would love a thread or article on when to phone for help. I really struggle with that and never have called anyone for help, even when thinking back I really should have. I never know when things are 'bad' enough or if my problem is 'bad' enough to bother someone with.
It may also be helpful to have a description of what actually happens when you ring someone (for example the samaritians, crisis team, NHS direct, 999). Not knowing what would happen is one of the big reasons why I find it such a problem. If someone knew that ringing so-and-so number would probably lead to the person answering in such a way and asking particular questions it might make it quite a bit easier to reach out for help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Animad
Problem with that is you're saying telling people out to self harm more safely... that in a way can also lead to tip sharing. What you should be doing is helping people to get round things instead of self harming, not just doing it to a lesser degree
That's a valid point, but I think information about harm minimisation could be very beneficial on here. Not saying specific ways of doing it or anything, and perhaps not as a thread, but saying to people if they can't face stopping right now there are other ways to get there. I don't know if I'm making sense or not here (won't be suprised if I'm not) but sometimes people really can't face stopping for whatever reason and being helped to gradually reduce SH might be a better way to go. Maybe suggestions of ways to reduce the urge, delay the urges, bring one's self to face stopping harm...
Eh, I think I'm not making a lot of sense there. To try and rephrase (hopefully more successfully) I think harm minimisation strategies could have their place on RYL and be helpful, but it would be something we would have to be very careful about.
I think by the time most people find RYL it's probably to late to stop them from starting, but I think we probably could do with a thread or something about the negatives of SH for everyone. I know I personally tend to focus on the positives and I think it would be a useful reminder to have something listing the negatives. Would be useful for stopping as well. Maybe we need a thread on reasons not to SH? Haven't seen one about and it could be quite useful.
Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgastic future
that year by year recedes before us.
It eluded us then, but that's no matter - tomorrow we
will run faster, stretch out our arms further...
And one fine morning - So we beat on, boats against the current,
borne back ceaselessly into the past.
There is the Warning Label thread hanging around somewhere in SID. I think if people are wondering whether too or not and have been for a while it could put them off the idea, like I am a very 'different' case to most having urges to cut for over 7yrs before I actually did it but people who kind of have the idea or have got the positives from it from their mates and their worried about it then it may help. Even people in the early stages but then it's only help; it won't be a solution. People are going to SH at times if the urge is big enough whatever we do and at the end of the end of the day it's their decision but things like making people aware it can spiral out of control and become addictive and the negative sides of things may just stall people a bit more make them think a bit harder; same as members who've only just done it a couple of times as often those things get overlooked.
But it's definately not something anyone can come down hard on people for. At the end of the day, if they're going to SH you can talk them out of it and it may work but people have to accept it also may not and it's not your responsibility if someone does it as well as itstead of telling people to stop altogether it is often more successful saying to them to get help to tackle the reasons behind it and then stopping can be easier or even a natural progression. The same with EDs, you've got to get the people to realise the problems they'e doing to themselves (and potentially others around) and then slowly helping them to get better. It won't change overnight.
But I think threads such as What meds are you on? and What have you been diagnosed are, in most cases, not of help to anyone and can appear competitive. People should really be looking at the reasons behind the behaviours that they do, if possible, that's lead to these diagnoses and try to get focussed help on them rather than just saying I've got x, y and z and put up with that and just make a point of getting it into your heads that that's what you've got and there's no way around it as often that just causes worsening, as well as other people who may have the same mental problems or the same emotions maybe feeling as if they need help less because they haven't got an official diagnosis when really that could be because of numerous reasons.
I have an idea, maybe it could help maybe it won't but an idea none the less.
Could there be for example a "pre assumption" thread, things that are assumed that aren't necessarily true about mental health self harm eds.
So
All self harmers leave physical marks - some self harmers may leave no marks at all, any harm that is made with a deliberate intention is sel harming.
All people who have mental illness are suicidal or want to hurt themselves
If you have symptoms of a condition this counts as a diagnosis- always get checked by your doctor
If I don't have a diagnosis then I am not really unwell or in need of support - if you are hurting then you deserve help and the community and further sources will try to provide that for you .
All people with an eating disorder are underweight..... etc
I know there is some stuff on the front page regarding this but maybe it would help. Sorry if it's a silly idea I do get things in my head that don't make sense sometimes.
But I being poor have only my dreams, I have spread my dreams under your feet ; tread softly as you tread on my dreams.
We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars.
I like the idea of a 'When to call?' thread, that might ease peoples' nerves.
I think to those who are definitely unable to stop self-harming, perhaps the idea of harm minimisation is a good one- I think it is. However, there is no way we can know how 'badly' a person self-harms anyway so when advising someone on harm minimisation then we might indeed be turning it the other way. Good ideas they may be, but it could cause harm I think.
And I have also felt like I didn't deserve support because others were worse than me, had more labels than me and were on meds and yet when my GP tried to diagnose me I stopped talking- I'm not sure why. I guess basically I'm not diagnosed, like many others and this doesn't make me not as deserving or anything else.
This thread has helped me so much with my competitive attitude that I knew shouldn't be there, it has helped me get rid of it. So thanks for that :)
i like Minty's idea. something like that would almost-explicitly let people know they don't have to 'prove' themselves.
-agrees-
I think a lot of us need reminding from time to time that the severity of the wounds or whatever doesn't matter - it's the emotions behind it that is the important thing.
---
This sort of debate seems to be happening a lot recently. A good sign?
Gatsby believed in the green light, the orgastic future
that year by year recedes before us.
It eluded us then, but that's no matter - tomorrow we
will run faster, stretch out our arms further...
And one fine morning - So we beat on, boats against the current,
borne back ceaselessly into the past.
