I didn't really read any responses, because right now I'm tired, but my opinion is: I don't think a person can really help what they feel, but I do believe they can choose whether or not they act on it or not. I guess, whether or not they are actively practicing homosexuality. My opinion is based on my religious beliefs.
I've gone around everywhere.
I've searched around everywhere.
I've turned around everywhere.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Jesus.
There's no one, there's no one like Him.
Doesn't dispute the fact that people who come from anti-gay backgrounds can be gay. It depends on the way that they grow up, the way that they think... even if they live in such a anti-gay enviorment.
Since when has the way that people think been a choice? Let's face it if it were this website would have a hell of a lot less members for a start. And ok you can retrain your thoughts with things like CBT, but the underlying emotions and desires aren't under conscious control. So I would argue that people don't have a choice in how they think.
I posted "It can change" however, i dont think it fully describes what I think. I believe that once you have realised/decided what sexuality you are, it isnt definate. A straight person could fall in love with someone of the same sex.. it doesnt mean they are gay or bi, it was just who they fell in love with. Same with a gay person may fall in love with the opposite sex. It doesnt restrict you to who you fall in love with, it is just a generalisation of who you are attracted to. A very vague generalisation!
I would argue that they do have a choice. I'm not knocking your arguement... It's just the way I've been thought to think. I believe that everything is a choice and I have no right to implement on your thoughts because of that.
Then again, that's just me... I'm a different breed of cat.
Don't worry about knocking my argument, it is news and debate after all, I expect it to happen (though certain others don't seem to get that sometimes!) I can sort of see you're argument, as in taking moods for an example, you can choose to be depressed, or you can choose to fight it by taking meds, exercise,CBT whatever, but then what about those with treatment resistant depression, those who try those things but can't alter their mood? I guess I sort of feel the same way in this as I do about sexuality, my dad is gay. But for religious reasons he didn't come out until in his 40's, he got married, had kids and constantly tried to be straight (which is one of the reasons I think he abused me). But it didn't work, all that happened was my parents marriage broke down in a pretty violent and awful way. I definately don't think my Dad would have been gay had he had a choice about it.
(I've just realised the comparisons I've used could sound like I believe homosexuality is a mental illness, which is not the point I'm trying to make at all!)
okay, I realise that I'm just echoing what has already been said, but no, I don't believe it is a conscious choice. I, for example, am straight, but I've never sat down and considered why, or if I could be gay. I'm attracted to men, and I always have been. I can think that other women are attractive, but that doesn't make me want to be in a relationship with them. My feelings for men (although not all it must be said) are very different to my feelings for women.
I do believe that people can suppress their feelings or act against their sexuality, but how you feel is not a choice, it is just how you were born.
"I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. Make us all feel wonderful. We'll never forget."
Oh - and yes, animals have been known to exhibit homosexual behaviour. That doesn't automatically mean it's not a choice in humans, though - it just means that there is some evidence that animals engage in similar behaviours.
Do animals have the thought capacity to make choisces like that?
Humans are animals too.
So, it kinda does prove that homosexuality IS just a *part* of a creature
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky
Personally, I've grown up to believe in science. I see a biological side to everything, nothing more than that. It's why I couldn't believe it was anything other than a choice. Though I'd like to believe otherwise.
I think it is a choice, mainly for the reasons Jack raised on the first page.
I also think that people are emotionally inclined to believe it isn't a choice, because the idea that someone would choose to be somewhat cast out from society based on their sexuality is abhorrent; people are not likely to accept that anyone would choose the most difficult route if there were another alternative.
However, just because the idea of choosing a harder path falls out of line with what most human beings want for their fellows (empathy encourages people to want others to be happy) doesn't mean that it's not a choice.
It just means that this issue is too emotionally led to be discussed objectively by 99.9% of the human race, because if I said "sexuality is a choice", I would be likely to recieve an anecdotal response based on the feelings of a loved one, and that is not evidence.
Do animals have the thought capacity to make choisces like that?
Humans are animals too.
So, it kinda does prove that homosexuality IS just a *part* of a creature
It doesn't prove anything. We have concious thought, we can make active decisions - something that animals can't. The way we work is based on making active decisions, the way animals work is by reflex, by impulse. I'm thinking of sexual partners - we choose who we want to be with, after looking around at guys out there & forming a relationship. We choose to stay in that relationship, to not cheat, to stick around. And we choose whether or not to get married.
Animals don't have that process of choice, they do what is instinctive - they mate with the 'top bird', they fight and the female mates with the winner (okay, laymans understanding of evolution, but you get my point).
We choose a lot of our actions that animals do, but simply don't have the capacity to choose.
Last edited by Dreaming. : 12-03-2009 at 11:53 AM.
Sexuality is not a choice, but in growing up we all make different choices in who we experiment with, female or male, and perceptions of sexuality can make people choose to lean to or away from a certain oriantation.
I beleive these factors to be more of a problematic influence because it confuses the individual from their own sexuality,, but then some may argue that experiance is what MAKES sexuality to an extent (which is true, but then we are talking chicken or egg). Sexuality, to me is a born 'potential' if your born with a preference, your more likely to follow it, but its not definitive (doesnt mean that changes to this is a choice, may I add) since environment can change sexual preferences.
xx
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i think people overanalyze this - if you made a choice, then it was a choice. if you didn't just wake up one day deciding to be gay/straight/bi, then it wasn't a choice. if you were sexually abused and decided to become a lesbian after that (an example used earlier) then that was obviously a choice...i don't think there's anyone who can say that their natural sexual orientation was a choice they made. like personality, it's something that you're born with, but is something that you can try to change with willpower. you can act straight if you're gay; you can act outgoing if you're shy. but whatever you're born with wasn't a choice.
so are you born with your sexual orientation? well unless you remember that say, "on april 4 when you were 12 that you decided whether you liked girls or boys" then...yes, you were born with it. just because sexuality isn't really a part of your life until around puberty, doesn't mean that when you hit puberty you have this big decision to make...just like other genetic traits like male pattern baldness, it doesn't have to be obvious from the second you're born.
I disagree. Shyness isn't a genetic trait, it's an entirely environmental phenomenon. Babies don't hide away from people. The only instance in which percieved shyness would be innate would be in the instance of autistic spectrum disorders, and sexuality is definitely not on a par with that. I couldn't choose to be "not autistic" if I tried. I could choose to be straight tomorrow.
Personally, I've grown up to believe in science. I see a biological side to everything, nothing more than that. It's why I couldn't believe it was anything other than a choice. Though I'd like to believe otherwise.
it's interesting stuff, I'm not going to pretend that this is uncontested, but I certainly think the biological argument is strong.
Random radio ___________This spiral
Static on tv ____________Has worn a groove so deep
Losing count of _________Cant climb out
All the days and weeks ___Pathetic, painful need
There is a time, though, with every thought pattern or behaviour, that if you continue to believe it for long enough, it becomes true.
CBT is a prime example of this.
Acting straight and believing that you are straight, and acting straight and thinking that you are gay, are going to have completely different results.
I'm a firm believer in the fact that every human action and thought can be moulded in some way, if you want it to be. Who we are is fluid, it isn't absolute, set in stone - and why should sexuality be any different within that?
this question bothers me, because people always ask if being gay is a choice.. but people dont go up to straight people and question them.
I do think that homosexuality is different fo different people.. i would identify myself as gay, but im not a 'proper' gay, i had always know i was attracted to ladies, but i slept with lots and lots of men, i fell in love with a few of them, and was engaged to be married to one, but the physical side never felt right.
My girlfriend on the other hand has always liked girls, never doubted it, never questioned it, never made a big deal out of it.. shes just gay. And it was very very difficult for her as her family are jewish and its a really bad thing.
so yeah, i think some people just are gay, where as others sort of pursuade themselves to be.
Also.. as a random thing.. if youre a girl bisexual, and youve always identified yourself as being bisexual, but you end up meeting a lady that you plan to spend the rest of your life with and get married to etc and never looking at let alone being with anyone else.. does that make you gay?
