I think it would be a good idea to have a section in the package re why it is bad. I also agree with having the cutting warning label stickied in all threads.
It is important to have these because I, sadly, understand why some members (especially younger ones) are asking why it is seen as bad because I also didn't understand why it was in the past when it didn't cause so many problems. It is only natural to question why your coping mechanism is deemed to be wrong and I understand now that it is but if you haven't been cutting long or often, etc it can be far less obvious even though there may be scars. I would like to see it discouraged but with the above info somewhere so that the question can still be answered for those who genuinely do not understand why cutting is a problem.
Sorry, probably doesn't make much sense.
makes good sense, good idea x
I WISH I'D NEVA SEEN THE SUNSHINE, I WISH I'D NEVA SEEN THE SUNSHINE, BECOZ IF I'D NEVA SEEN THE SUNSHINE, MAYBE THEN I WOULDN'T MIND THE RAIN.
Aimee, I am just agreeing with the way Irene said we should handle it.
Like if you see someone commenting on why SI isn't bad and you disagree, go for it, debate your point. Maybe they will start to understand, maybe no straight away but weeks/months/years down the line.
I haven't read all the posts yet, just wanted to say my bit before I lost my train of thought lol.
Because SH is such an everyday thing to so many people it becomes a 'normal' thing to that individual. With this 'normality' comes a sort of acceptance that many other people here on RYL will relate to...which I think breeds the whole "It's ok" thing.
The other thing that tends to reinforce this attitude is that whole "It's not your fault/you can't just switch it off/it controls you" and so on. Whilst I agree that SH has a very strong hold on the sufferer I think it is completely the wrong attitude to take to say that it controls you.
In my personal opinion, what that does is gives the illness a power that doesn't really exist. It seems to subconciously encourage people to give in to the behaviour and believe that it's OK because it's not their fault.
I'm not sure if I explained my second point in the way I wanted to and I don't want to offend people but I do strongly believe that we all have far more power that our illness's. I am guilty of this as well just for the record.
I think it's time to toughen up. Stop all this "there there, it's ok" attitude.
You can be supportive without being a push over about it. Sometimes people just need to hear the harsh truth or need to discover other ways to deal with their emotions. I had many 'tricks' to stop me from actually cutting myself and I looked into these methods (like holding ice, dying my hair red and so on) so that I wouldn't SH because I knew SH was not good for me.
I know a lot of people are very sensitive and it can be hard to give people the right advice when really all they want is a cuddle and someone to tell them it's alright. But its not alright, and what people need is the truth not what they want to hear.
I would rather offend someone that see them get worse and there are ways of responding truthfully to posts without being rude and insensitive. I think people get offended because so many people respond with soft and squishy posts that no one is used to hearing what they need to hear.
This reply will no doubt be all over the place, so apologies in advance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by <alive>
I am not disputing peoples decisions not to recover. That is their choice. But I am disputing there right to discuss with other people the best way that they cut and I am never going to condone "cutting is better than <insert other addiction here>".
Agreed. I don't think it is right to discuss methods of cutting, whether that be area or tool etc. I don't think many on here would suggests methods for attempting suicide, would they? So, i find it hard to comprehend why people would want to discuss methods of cutting. I can see a place for 'safe' cutting, but no more than cleaning tools etc.
Perhaps this will go against the grain, but in some situations, SH is okay, but that does not make it acceptable and for me, that's where the difference lies. In some cases, self harm is the lesser of two evils and assuming someone isn't at high risk of accidental suicide, self harm may be 'saving' their life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by <alive>
Cutting also damages other people. How many people have whole relationships with their friends and family... or did cutting emotionally damage that. Mental illness damages relationships becasue it's not understood. BUt cutting adds to that becasue it's a dangerous coping mechanism. Careful or not. It isn't safe and it does harm other people if not directly and physically.
Indeed, however much someone tries to self harm 'carefully' there is still a great danger. But, on the flip side, both physical and mental illnesses have the capacity to damage relationships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by <alive>
This. I want the normalising the 'it's okay to hurt yourself' stuff to stop. If you're going to post then fine, but don't encourage cutting.
'Okay' doesn't have to equate normalising, accepting that someone self harms and is going to remain doing so for the foreseeable future does not mean encouraging self harm. Similarly though, self harm being 'okay' does not make self harm good.
Goodness knows if any of that made sense.
18.11 28.4 6.5 22.31
My heart just needs his smile, that i can't forget, like so melancholy a kiss.
However. Most people are too scared of giving people decent advice that they may not like to hear because people get pulled up on it by the mods.
If someone posted a thread saying, for example, that they'd cut in school and were going to get in trouble because they got caught - 90% of the replies (going on what I see around the boards) would be "OMG THAT'S SO UNFAIR". People are too scared or also too "cutting is okay" to go "well, actually, your school has a point. Firstly, you cut in school which is a real hazard - what if you went too deep and passed out or whatever. & secondly, it's a stupid thing to do". Well, you know what I mean.
If people ask for help to stop cutting I'll give it to them. If they want help with the surrounding issues but aren't ready to stop I'll also help them. There's a difference between mollycoddling & telling people that aren't ready to stop, to stop.
my sister said something the other day to me that shocked and hurt me ,
"She Said why do you cut ? is it because its cool" to that i said nothing , then she said " loads if people do it now so its normal" in my head i was like omg omg omg , do you seriously know what your talking about . shes a very intelligent and i cant understand why she says that , shes capable of looking ..
self harm is a way of coping and a way of well to me keeping a lid on my emotions.
sorry its kina a pointless post but i thought i'd share
However. Most people are too scared of giving people decent advice that they may not like to hear because people get pulled up on it by the mods.
If someone posted a thread saying, for example, that they'd cut in school and were going to get in trouble because they got caught - 90% of the replies (going on what I see around the boards) would be "OMG THAT'S SO UNFAIR". People are too scared or also too "cutting is okay" to go "well, actually, your school has a point. Firstly, you cut in school which is a real hazard - what if you went too deep and passed out or whatever. & secondly, it's a stupid thing to do". Well, you know what I mean.
If people ask for help to stop cutting I'll give it to them. If they want help with the surrounding issues but aren't ready to stop I'll also help them. There's a difference between mollycoddling & telling people that aren't ready to stop, to stop.
I really hope this makes sense.
Agreed lady lovely.
I think most people are in agreement self harm is generally an action to a reaction, so of course it may help to focus on why people self harm instead of the act itself.
The thing is, & I'm going to challenge this, those of you that say you don't want to stop self harming & why is it so bad if it's not damaging anyone else, if you believe self harm isn't bad, why do you want to hurt yourself in places people can't see?
Surely if part of you didn't see self harm as so bad you wouldn't wear long sleeves/shorts/ etc, you wouldn't mind who saw it because hey, using your logic here, self harm isn't bad.
I've only skimmed through the thread, so forgive me if I'm just repeating what's already been said, I just agree with what I've read.
Yeah, harming yourself is a coping mechanism, and alot of the time, the only one people can find, and that's fair enough. But no, it's not the right thing to do, maybe it's the 'only thing' (I'm not saying it is, it's just something I hear alot.) but it can't be the right thing. And by people comparing it to things such as smoking will never be helpful. The only message it gives out is that harming yourself is okay, and 'not a big deal' (once again, not my thoughts, really.) which will get Harmers nowhere. I guess as soon as the thought of 'it's actually okay for me to be harming myself' comes into your head then recovery is pretty much out of the window. It's just going to make you believe you don't have a problem, and you never put right something you don't think needs dealt with if you don't believe there's anything wrong to begin with...
Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I'm just trying not to say the wrong thing...
Now I'll play your ghost as my ace, whenever I'm led astray.
But I am actually good, can't help it if we're tilted.
I'm in my right place, don't be a downer.
i've seen a lot of the "why is cutting so bad?" threads, but i don't think it's wrong.
not that it's right to encourage cutting, but i think we should be allowed to talk about why it's sometimes considered so much worse than smoking/drinking etc. because i think it's something that a lot of people wonder about, and we should be able to give our opinions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nymphomania.
I haven't read the replies to this thread.
However. Most people are too scared of giving people decent advice that they may not like to hear because people get pulled up on it by the mods.
If someone posted a thread saying, for example, that they'd cut in school and were going to get in trouble because they got caught - 90% of the replies (going on what I see around the boards) would be "OMG THAT'S SO UNFAIR". People are too scared or also too "cutting is okay" to go "well, actually, your school has a point. Firstly, you cut in school which is a real hazard - what if you went too deep and passed out or whatever. & secondly, it's a stupid thing to do". Well, you know what I mean.
If people ask for help to stop cutting I'll give it to them. If they want help with the surrounding issues but aren't ready to stop I'll also help them. There's a difference between mollycoddling & telling people that aren't ready to stop, to stop.
i agree that some people are afraid to give their honest opinions for fear of being criticized by mods.
sorry if none of that made much sense, and i'm not criticizing ryl's rules here, just giving my opinion :)
Shoot for the moon, even if you miss you land among the stars
1) i think a lot of the 'cutting isnt so bad' replies are from people who live their lives normally, and for them, its that its part of their life, not that it is their life.
like people with bulimia that have had it for 17 years or something and no ones ever known because its just part of their daily routine now.
The individual knows that it isnt normal, but doesnt understand why he/she should stop when its not interferring with them leading an (albeit only only the surface) 'normal' life.
2) I think recoveryourlife is in real danger of losing its identity, soon there will be no mention of self harm on the site at all.
It is indeed a disturbing trend. In my opinion, cutting needs to be something that is ok to talk about, no longer in the veil of silence. But in no way shape or form is it ok for it to become an acceptable behavior.
This.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimee in Wonderland
Luke *shakes head* fair enough!
And Heidi - my apologies for the mis-communication! I agree both sides of any discussion are needed to be heard. But I noticed this side - the "cutting isn't healthy [for lack of better word]" sort of side was under-represented in most forums.
I'm off to bed too. *tips hat*
That too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Lou
I haven't read all the posts yet, just wanted to say my bit before I lost my train of thought lol.
Because SH is such an everyday thing to so many people it becomes a 'normal' thing to that individual. With this 'normality' comes a sort of acceptance that many other people here on RYL will relate to...which I think breeds the whole "It's ok" thing.
The other thing that tends to reinforce this attitude is that whole "It's not your fault/you can't just switch it off/it controls you" and so on. Whilst I agree that SH has a very strong hold on the sufferer I think it is completely the wrong attitude to take to say that it controls you.
In my personal opinion, what that does is gives the illness a power that doesn't really exist. It seems to subconciously encourage people to give in to the behaviour and believe that it's OK because it's not their fault.
I'm not sure if I explained my second point in the way I wanted to and I don't want to offend people but I do strongly believe that we all have far more power that our illness's. I am guilty of this as well just for the record.
I think it's time to toughen up. Stop all this "there there, it's ok" attitude.
You can be supportive without being a push over about it. Sometimes people just need to hear the harsh truth or need to discover other ways to deal with their emotions. I had many 'tricks' to stop me from actually cutting myself and I looked into these methods (like holding ice, dying my hair red and so on) so that I wouldn't SH because I knew SH was not good for me.
I know a lot of people are very sensitive and it can be hard to give people the right advice when really all they want is a cuddle and someone to tell them it's alright. But its not alright, and what people need is the truth not what they want to hear.
I would rather offend someone that see them get worse and there are ways of responding truthfully to posts without being rude and insensitive. I think people get offended because so many people respond with soft and squishy posts that no one is used to hearing what they need to hear.
I think this is really well written and explained!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nymphomania.
I haven't read the replies to this thread.
However. Most people are too scared of giving people decent advice that they may not like to hear because people get pulled up on it by the mods.
If someone posted a thread saying, for example, that they'd cut in school and were going to get in trouble because they got caught - 90% of the replies (going on what I see around the boards) would be "OMG THAT'S SO UNFAIR". People are too scared or also too "cutting is okay" to go "well, actually, your school has a point. Firstly, you cut in school which is a real hazard - what if you went too deep and passed out or whatever. & secondly, it's a stupid thing to do". Well, you know what I mean.
If people ask for help to stop cutting I'll give it to them. If they want help with the surrounding issues but aren't ready to stop I'll also help them. There's a difference between mollycoddling & telling people that aren't ready to stop, to stop.
I really hope this makes sense.
I just wanted to ask what sort of advice would be pounced on by the mods? I've had people PM me and tell me i'm being nasty becasue i've bluntly said "this is bad for you and you're going to do yourself far more damage than you think. this isn't okay at all!" But i've never been pulled up by a mod for it! Can you clarify for me please chelseaface?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erotophobia
Agreed lady lovely.
I think most people are in agreement self harm is generally an action to a reaction, so of course it may help to focus on why people self harm instead of the act itself.
The thing is, & I'm going to challenge this, those of you that say you don't want to stop self harming & why is it so bad if it's not damaging anyone else, if you believe self harm isn't bad, why do you want to hurt yourself in places people can't see?
Surely if part of you didn't see self harm as so bad you wouldn't wear long sleeves/shorts/ etc, you wouldn't mind who saw it because hey, using your logic here, self harm isn't bad.
Brilliantly said!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alive.
I've only skimmed through the thread, so forgive me if I'm just repeating what's already been said, I just agree with what I've read.
Yeah, harming yourself is a coping mechanism, and alot of the time, the only one people can find, and that's fair enough. But no, it's not the right thing to do, maybe it's the 'only thing' (I'm not saying it is, it's just something I hear alot.) but it can't be the right thing. And by people comparing it to things such as smoking will never be helpful. The only message it gives out is that harming yourself is okay, and 'not a big deal' (once again, not my thoughts, really.) which will get Harmers nowhere. I guess as soon as the thought of 'it's actually okay for me to be harming myself' comes into your head then recovery is pretty much out of the window. It's just going to make you believe you don't have a problem, and you never put right something you don't think needs dealt with if you don't believe there's anything wrong to begin with...
Sorry if that doesn't make sense, I'm just trying not to say the wrong thing...
That's really well said and explained :)
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
1) i think a lot of the 'cutting isnt so bad' replies are from people who live their lives normally, and for them, its that its part of their life, not that it is their life.
like people with bulimia that have had it for 17 years or something and no ones ever known because its just part of their daily routine now.
The individual knows that it isnt normal, but doesnt understand why he/she should stop when its not interferring with them leading an (albeit only only the surface) 'normal' life.
2) I think recoveryourlife is in real danger of losing its identity, soon there will be no mention of self harm on the site at all.
But even if you're not impacting on your life, it doesn't make is a good thing and it's not healthy to encourage that for other especially the young new members. We're not saying to stop talking about self harm! We are talking abuot stop encouraging it and man up to the fact that whether it's helping or not, it's an unhealthy behaviour.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
The thing is, & I'm going to challenge this, those of you that say you don't want to stop self harming & why is it so bad if it's not damaging anyone else, if you believe self harm isn't bad, why do you want to hurt yourself in places people can't see?
Surely if part of you didn't see self harm as so bad you wouldn't wear long sleeves/shorts/ etc, you wouldn't mind who saw it because hey, using your logic here, self harm isn't bad.
Well, what I'm going to say applies only partly - many people on this thread who don't want to stop have said that encouraging is no good, and that it self harm is not great.
There's a difference between the two. Not stopping and advertising, that is.
In my case I can just say, I'm not trying to stop self harm because life as it is now is a lot of stress, and I'd be silly to take away one of the main things I have to get through. That doesn't mean I think it's awesome, or that others should do it... but I'm simply not in a position to put myself under the added stress of quitting/finding help/getting used to new coping mechanisms/whathaveyou. I'm simply being honest with myself there.
But on the other hand, I'd also quite like to find a job this summer. In an ideal world it wouldn't matter, but I will be applying for office positions, and I dare anyone to say that I'd easily find a job with my arms looking like I cuddled Edward Scissorhands - and I imagine a lot of people are in similar positions. Not in the mindset to quit but also having to deal with that fabled real life - which doesn't like people looking different.
Face your life
Its pain, its pleasure
Leave no path untaken
ah crap.. i was just coming in here to delete that post and write a new one, but you quoted me.
what i wanted to say, was that when i was self harming, it was just a thing, it didnt really bother me, i went to work, had a full time job, paid my rent on time, socialised with my friends, and then just cut myself at home at night. for me, cutting wasnt bad i dont think, i didnt even see it as unhealthy, as far as i was concerned, a few scars werent going to kill me.
but then i think by that time i had stopped doing it because it made me feel better, and more just because it was what i was used to doing.
I dont think people should talk about self harm not being bad, but surely they should be able to talk about not being ready to stop? I dont mean glamourise it, i just mean be able to talk about it?!
You can talk about not being ready to stop! But you can't say "i'm not stopping becasue cutting just isn't that bad" becasue it is! even if it does help. it is not good!
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
Well, what I'm going to say applies only partly - many people on this thread who don't want to stop have said that encouraging is no good, and that it self harm is not great.
There's a difference between the two. Not stopping and advertising, that is.
In my case I can just say, I'm not trying to stop self harm because life as it is now is a lot of stress, and I'd be silly to take away one of the main things I have to get through. That doesn't mean I think it's awesome, or that others should do it... but I'm simply not in a position to put myself under the added stress of quitting/finding help/getting used to new coping mechanisms/whathaveyou. I'm simply being honest with myself there.
Well said, Rike!
I mean, just because I don't want to quit doesn't make me going round and screaming "SI is the coolest thing, you have to do it, too".
Nooo, I would never do this.
But I wouldn't judge anyone in a bad way who SIs and who doesn't want to stop, too, and I would honestly say that I won't stop as well.
I have many problems- in the past, in the present and unfortunately will have for the rest of my life, too.
I work on myself: I go to therapy every week, I go to my psychiatrist every month, I am visited by a social worker every week, I take my meds daily, I read lots of stuff and furthermore, I am HERE.
But working on my problems doesn't go hand in hand for me with quitting SI because that's another thing.
How can I say it? SI isn't just a coping mechanism to deal with any feeling- good or bad, but also the thing I am addicted to (and which f***s up my mind sometimes completely) and moreover, it is MINE and it belongs to me.
Just some thought to the skills.
OMG, I cannot understand why so many people believe in them.
You know, I always compare them with something else and I will write you my example down.
Imagine a little child who wants to have sweets and begs and pleases you to give them to her/ him because she/ he yearns for them badly.
Then, instead of giving sweets to the kid, you give them fruits "because they are sweet, too...and they are healthy.".
Will the kid be satisfied with the fruits?
Probably not because what she/ he yearns for a SWEETS.
You can also think of a kid wanting a dog and well, you give them a stuffed dog instead.
Oh, and please stop with "mostly younger members are the ones who don't want to stop.".
Rike and me are in our 20s and not some teens anymore.
I can't control my destiny.
I trust my soul. My only goal is just to be. (Rent)
I'm selfish, inpatient and a little insecure.
I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle but if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best. (Marilyn Monroe)
You can talk about not being ready to stop! But you can't say "i'm not stopping becasue cutting just isn't that bad" becasue it is! even if it does help. it is not good!
i understand.
I guess if youve been here a while/doing it a while, it wont matter to you what people say overly, but if youre reletively new to doing it and come here to talk to people, it doesnt encourage you to stop when you read 'its not that bad' 'there are worse things'
see, because even if you love it, or it helps you, or you dont do it very deep, the fact that youre doing it at all is worrying.
