I agree that cliques will always happen and are a natural part of human nature, however how much those cliques choose to take responsibility and prevent others from feeling uncomfortable varies from clique to clique and I do think that even if there is no ill intent people need to take responsibility for their actions ad words, and their effect on others. I'm not referring to any group in particular just think it is something to be aware of as it is easy for a clique to unintentionally alienate people then become defensive if someone outside of the 'group' challenges their dynamic.
So so true.x
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
There are several members here who think that there is a clique on RYL that is almost "taking over" RYL, so why aren't we all being mature adults and discussing it together to try and work with each other and bridge any gaps that people feel there may be? We ARE a community after all. Why can't we work together? There are so many things being bitched about on here and left unsaid when there is a chance for it to be said in a constructive way.
In an ideal world, that would be great. However, we don't live in an ideal world, we live in one with people and those people are mentally ill. People get defensive, and that helps nothing. If anything, it just makes things worse.
In an ideal world, that would be great. However, we don't live in an ideal world, we live in one with people and those people are mentally ill. People get defensive, and that helps nothing. If anything, it just makes things worse.
So we're completely powerless and shouldn't try to do anything? No, we're not going to get rid of cliques and friendship groups because we're a community and of course people get on better with different people. In any social networks cliques will seem to arise and people will feel left out but this thread is to try to get the community feel of RYL going, so knocking it isn't really productive. I agree with Louise, especially her point about us respecting that there are cliques and trying to talk through the problems that are being experienced. Being 'mentally ill' is not an excuse not to do that. I also think that too much time on RYL can be detrimental but it isn't sick and twisted. Like Louise said, some people are at that stage in their point of life, so that's what they need. That doesn't make them sick and twisted.
The threads that have popped up recently have caused a lot of distress and hurt on all accounts. However, they have been created for a reason and clearly people are feeling that there are problems with the forums. Hopefully, we can all come together and this can be used to propel us forward positively.
I agree that cliques will always happen and are a natural part of human nature, however how much those cliques choose to take responsibility and prevent others from feeling uncomfortable varies from clique to clique and I do think that even if there is no ill intent people need to take responsibility for their actions ad words, and their effect on others. I'm not referring to any group in particular just think it is something to be aware of as it is easy for a clique to unintentionally alienate people then become defensive if someone outside of the 'group' challenges their dynamic.
I'm getting bored of people saying "I'm not talking about any clique in particular". It's kind of annoying.
See, I think there's a big difference between a community coming together and deciding on rules, and a community coming together to discuss how they don't like certain people and how they feel alienated by them. Like, I didn't like the fact that when we started getting old London meets going again a few years ago and 'older' members were just like 'eww, new members, ceeb for that', and then when they finally started attending meets they sat at a separate table and didn't really talk to us. However, that's the way they choose to behave and I felt excluded and upset but so what? They weren't breaking any rules towards me, that's just the way the clique mentality worked at the time. What do you suggest we do? Force members to like every other member, to talk to every other member? To carefully make sure that they equally distribute their time between every single board and every single member so as to make everything fair? I was going to say that this sounds like primary school politics, but even at ten years old I was told by my teacher that it was OK if I didn't want to play with a certain person on the yard every day.
I think it's arrogant and wrong of people to challenge a certain group's dynamic, but go ahead and do it if you want but as a top tip, I imagine they'd take it better if they were challenged politely. Saying "I think your friendship group is pathetic" isn't the greatest way to get a discussion going.
See this is why this discussion doesnt work,because people get their backs up and will defend their group no matter what(naturally) with no admittance that there might actually be a problem. This isnt going to get solved so its all a bit pointless unfortunately
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
Like, I didn't like the fact that when we started getting old London meets going again a few years ago and 'older' members were just like 'eww, new members, ceeb for that', and then when they finally started attending meets they sat at a separate table and didn't really talk to us. However, that's the way they choose to behave and I felt excluded and upset but so what? They weren't breaking any rules towards me, that's just the way the clique mentality worked at the time.
I don't like the fact that you keep bringing this up, even though this wasn't what happened at all (at least from mine and a few others point of view). We sat at the end next to people we knew because the big table was already full up by you guys, we all said hi at some point, and we tried to entertain everyone.
But again, this is a perfect example of how different people view a situation, and how easily wires get crossed because no one is psychic.
Maybe if we just give everyone psychic powers, this will fix everything. That or we can have interesting conversations in our heads.
See this is why this discussion doesnt work,because people get their backs up and will defend their group no matter what(naturally) with no admittance that there might actually be a problem. This isnt going to get solved so its all a bit pointless unfortunately
I personally only get defensive when my friends are called pathetic or a 'depressing case'. If given an example of a situation where members have been made to feel excluded and I will happily discuss what can be done, to not necessarily 'change' the clique, but make the clique more aware of itself, and to make the website itself more accessible. Whilst people continue to publicly mock my friends (and this time there is evidence that the 'victims' DO take offence to it), I will remain defensive, as will others and discussion WILL be pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrk
I don't like the fact that you keep bringing this up, even though this wasn't what happened at all (at least from mine and a few others point of view). We sat at the end next to people we knew because the big table was already full up by you guys, we all said hi at some point, and we tried to entertain everyone.
I didn't realise I'd brought it up a lot to be honest, sorry! It wasn't a big deal, it was just in addition to comments that some people made whilst outside smoking and stuff with previous meets that upset me, but I'm aware that a)people are going to stick with the people they know and b)My perception (and that of everyone else who was uncomfortable) is not necessarily right.
My exact point was that whilst you guys made us feel a bit uncomfortable, it's not something that should be regulated or that you should be criticised for.
I think it's cool to hear from others on how they've felt at meets and try to make suggestions of how to make people feel more included, as it's cool for you or Katie to brainstorm ideas for how to make people feel less excluded on RYL, but it would be wrong for me to say that you're wrong for the way you and your friends conduct yourselves.
. This isnt going to get solved so its all a bit pointless unfortunately
Can anyone point out to me again what exactly is the issue that we want to solve? Because I lost track of things. Everyone agreed that groups are a natural thing to happen, so the very existence of groups can't be the problem at hand. To me this looks like one group telling off another group for being a group. I am not meaning to attack anyone with that statement, I am just trying to explain myself.
If the issue is that something about one or several groups around here makes RYL a less supportive and safe community then can people please explain to me how that happens and what they suggest people can do to prevent that from happening?
Last edited by Unbreakable. : 26-01-2013 at 10:27 PM.
Reason: spelling woes
If only everyone could be as rational as that Jenna, the world would be lovely.
Personally I can't remember anything that was said because that meet was a long freaking time ago, but I distinctly remembering doing a lap of the table to say hi to you & everyone else because of you guys being new and looking a bit lost, and we had a discussion about people lying about a mental health problems. See, I can rememeber that in clarity but I can't remember who else was there :P
That is all I have right now, I forget what words are.
Can anyone point out to me again what exactly is the issue that we want to solve? Because I lost track of things. Everyone agreed that groups are a natural thing to happen, so the very existenz of groups can't be the problem at hand. To me this looks like one group telling off another group for being a group. I am not meaning to attack anyone with that statement, I am just trying to explain myself.
If the issue is that something about one or several groups around here makes RYL a less supportive and safe community then can people please explain to me how that happens and what they suggest people can do to prevent that from happening?
I think part of the issue is people who are not in your group feel threatened. You guys are very close and have all your own lingo, hijack all the threads, talk about everyone outside RYL (or at least it seems like that, to me and a few others at least), and if someone so much as disagrees with you then they get stomped out by the rest of your group. I think people get a bit worried and concerned that they can't compete with any of you, and that because they are not part of your group of friends that they aren't wanted, etc. I think also people get worried that you guys will put out a hit on them (for lack of a better term), and then will be ridiculed. So this makes people scared to say things.
I am using you as a general statement, not you personally. I also may be talking out of my arse but I am spouting off ideas that seem rational and came up in the discussion about this with the last "cool group" as it were. I used to get lots of PMs telling me I was a horrible person for being in a "cool group". It was fun.
Thanks for explaing, that made a lot of sense and would also account for why people get so wound up about this. I will try to come up with something constructive to say and hope that other people will have suggestions as to how to reduce that effect. I am sure people are willing to listen to suggestions.
Can anyone point out to me again what exactly is the issue that we want to solve? Because I lost track of things. Everyone agreed that groups are a natural thing to happen, so the very existence of groups can't be the problem at hand. To me this looks like one group telling off another group for being a group. I am not meaning to attack anyone with that statement, I am just trying to explain myself.
If the issue is that something about one or several groups around here makes RYL a less supportive and safe community then can people please explain to me how that happens and what they suggest people can do to prevent that from happening?
This.
I think it would be really helpful if people could be honest and precise. Vague whining and general points get us nowhere. I cannot speak for others, but I would find it much more helpful if people were to say "I have a problem with X that happens regularly on board Y. I don't like it because of Z, and I feel like it causes the following problems". When you clearly define the issue and what you want to achieve it facilitates understanding from all present in the discussion and allows people to have a meaningful discussion.
I don't know whether or not this is actually the case, but from where I'm sitting it feels like the perceived problem is that Mike is very popular, that him and his friends post quite a lot in general about things that others don't find as interesting, that people use in-jokes (and will happily explain to others what the joke is) and that there's an unsavoury amount of people dwelling in my rear end. Apart from the latter which is actually quite uncomfortable, I don't see any of those things as actual problems, hence I'd appreciate clarification on the problems that people have.
Thanks for explaing, that made a lot of sense and would also account for why people get so wound up about this. I will try to come up with something constructive to say and hope that other people will have suggestions as to how to reduce that effect. I am sure people are willing to listen to suggestions.
This. Thank you for the explanation. It's very interesting to hear a polite explanation of how 'we' are perceived by others.
You say that people feel that they aren't wanted and are scared to disagree with us. Do you feel like there are lots of examples of people being 'stomped out' or unwanted, or that it's more just the 'image' that the group gives off?
Because as I always prattle on, I love getting new people involved in stuff and I found the uni student thread very welcoming when I first joined it, so I wonder if any of that intention comes across or not?
Without talking about practicalities or anything, in an ideal world, what would be one big thing that you feel would help to make people feel less threatened?
Well, you explained it very well and from the way you said things I could finally understand why people from outside the group [can we please stop pretending we're not talking about QK here?] would perceive them in a certain way. For me a lot of the issues you mention come down to the fact that a lot of the more frequent posters are from our group, so it is probably natural that it looks like we're "taking over RYL". Maybe something can be done though to reduce that effect despite our lot posting a lot.
Well, you explained it very well and from the way you said things I could finally understand why people from outside the group [can we please stop pretending we're not talking about QK here?] would perceive them in a certain way. For me a lot of the issues you mention come down to the fact that a lot of the more frequent posters are from our group, so it is probably natural that it looks like we're "taking over RYL". Maybe something can be done though to reduce that effect despite our lot posting a lot.
I don't think it is just QK that is under fire here actually, although I think there are probably some misconceptions about who that actually is! I remember Sophia (talaiporia) once being like "Oh, more uni thread people", when I was talking about two people who I don't believe had ever posted in the uni thread, but she bundled all people that I chatted to outside of RYL as "uni thread people". I don't imagine she's the only one who does that, which gives the uni thread a bad name for being all over the place, when actually, just because I have an in-joke with someone, it doesn't mean they're necessarily from the uni thread clique.
This. Thank you for the explanation. It's very interesting to hear a polite explanation of how 'we' are perceived by others.
You say that people feel that they aren't wanted and are scared to disagree with us. Do you feel like there are lots of examples of people being 'stomped out' or unwanted, or that it's more just the 'image' that the group gives off?
You're welcome. Nothing gets solved if we all tiptoe around what supposed group we are talking about and everyone gets defensive because no one can be bothered to go "oi, its you i have a problem with." Hopefully now I've started this other people can come forward and expand on my thoughts and we have a proper adult discussion with tea and biscuits and whatever else adults have in meetings.
Personally, I feel that if I ever disagreed with anyone from the QK group, I would get a lot of abuse back. I understand defending your friends opinions and sticking up for your friends, but sometimes it goes a bit too far and people tend to not say anything in fear of the repercussions. Especially because it is also well known that QK'ers talk about people on fb, etc. Though this might be me being paranoid because I don't like people not liking me, all I want to do is make people's lives as easy as possible and I feel bad if people don't like me. I don't know if this is the way anyone else feels, but that is my thought process.
As with all friend groups, I think it's just QK'ers have each others backs, as it were, so everyone knows that there is at least 2 of you who will stalk the other and back them up if necessary (or unnecessary, whatevz bruv.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissa
Because as I always prattle on, I love getting new people involved in stuff and I found the uni student thread very welcoming when I first joined it, so I wonder if any of that intention comes across or not?
I don't like the uni student thread. I also don't like any of the big zillion page long threads. I don't feel comfortable posting there, because once again it's turned into a group. I think me and Liv have mentioned this before in the other threads about rooms (I will look this up a bit later after I have replied to all of you) about not feeling welcome and then deleting our posts. I think it might be because it's very chatty oriented (or at least was when I tried to join in) and I don't know how to talk to people at the best of times, let alone a group who has all the lingo and memes and all that jazz. I don't see anything wrong with it, if you wanna go ahead and chat then be my guest, but that is just my take on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narcissa
Without talking about practicalities or anything, in an ideal world, what would be one big thing that you feel would help to make people feel less threatened?
I'm not sure on this one. I think sometimes without meaning to, QK'ers get really excited and tend to talk over other people or spam memes (which is another thing that really annoys me, we are not 4chan/9gag/reddit, but again, personal pet peeve!) and people get a bit overwhelmed and don't know how to respond to the group. Which leads to them not posting and things. I guess maybe tone it down a bit? Sometimes I feel you guys are a bit larger than life and I don't know how to deal with that. Maybe also think about the way you conduct yourselves - for example, Nic had a point on the other thread that sometimes angry people are just really upset, and you guys didn't see why you should ask if they're okay instead of just reporting it and leaving the mods to deal with. (I don't think conduct is the right word and I think that is what the point was, I wasn't on the internet at the time, shock horror! I also don't really remember where this point was going so I will leave it here.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha Bitch
Well, you explained it very well and from the way you said things I could finally understand why people from outside the group [can we please stop pretending we're not talking about QK here?] would perceive them in a certain way. For me a lot of the issues you mention come down to the fact that a lot of the more frequent posters are from our group, so it is probably natural that it looks like we're "taking over RYL". Maybe something can be done though to reduce that effect despite our lot posting a lot.
I'm pretty sure it's just because you guys post a hell of a lot, you are everywhere, everyone seems to like you and wont disagree with you, and it's just a bit.. everywhere? You seem to be in every board all the time with something and sometimes I think it'd be nice to just go somewhere without all the flashing images and the memes and stuff.
I am sorry for wall of text, and this is all my personal opinion with a bit of guessing going on. I am going to have a cigarette now whilst you read this and then if you have anymore questions, go ahead and I will answer them when I get back.
Also, thank you for being civil and respectful and actually wanting to fix things instead of... not. :P
Shall I call it "Jenna's circle of friends and others"? :P
Yeah, it's probably not exclusively QK but that's defintely one of the groups people have issues with. I'm probably just getting geuniely defensive about what I'd consider "my group" on here. :S
