Question about self harm board

[GlitterTrashDoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morpheus

But, then it is your responsibility to avoid what you find triggering or deal with the consequesces of a triggering situation. You cant expect people to not talk about something simply because you find it triggering.
I think we all find something positive in SH'ing, otherwise we wouldn't do it so should we avoid talking about and exploring these feelings because it may trigger someone? Is avoiding them, not just contributing to making these feelings more tabboo?

I completely agree with this.

Different things trigger different people - and what members on the site find triggering is so varied. If we didn't talk about ANYTHING that we all found triggering, there wouldn't be anything left to talk about.

If you know something triggers you, avoid that part of the bored until your okay reading about that subject. But you are on a self harm site, so you should expect to see a lot of discussion about cutting, eating disorders and self harm and to an extent - a degree of triggering content on this site.

[Snow White.]

I agree with Anna and Amy, and also want to add that I think at some point, one needs to explore the reasons they self harm aka the 'positives' for them. It is only then that they can get an objective look from others going - 'okay, that may be a positive for you, but did you consider x y z consequences? What other ways can you achieve that perceived positive without harming yourself?'

Through looking at these real reasons why we self-harm, we can find a solution that is going to replace the use of self-injury and thus be a more likely candidate in helping us maintain recovery. It's more than just reading 'it felt good', it's about probing into why it felt good and exploring feelings and reasons in a mature way.

I think if your mindset is at a vulnerable state, whereby someone self-harming gives you 'permission' in your mind to self-harm, then I think it's best to stay off the boards discussing self-injury until you're a bit stronger in your convictions and able to challenge your thoughts, or look objectively at the situation.

And Eli, to clarify, I'm not bashing your thoughts as is the way of the internet. I'm just explaining my viewpoint, I understand yours may be different.

[GlitterTrashDoll]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow White.

I agree with Anna and Amy, and also want to add that I think at some point, one needs to explore the reasons they self harm aka the 'positives' for them. It is only then that they can get an objective look from others going - 'okay, that may be a positive for you, but did you consider x y z consequences? What other ways can you achieve that perceived positive without harming yourself?'

Through looking at these real reasons why we self-harm, we can find a solution that is going to replace the use of self-injury and thus be a more likely candidate in helping us maintain recovery. It's more than just reading 'it felt good', it's about probing into why it felt good and exploring feelings and reasons in a mature way.

I think if your mindset is at a vulnerable state, whereby someone self-harming gives you 'permission' in your mind to self-harm, then I think it's best to stay off the boards discussing self-injury until you're a bit stronger in your convictions and able to challenge your thoughts, or look objectively at the situation.

And Eli, to clarify, I'm not bashing your thoughts as is the way of the internet. I'm just explaining my viewpoint, I understand yours may be different.

This. 100% this.

We need to talk about all aspects of Self Harm - both positive and negative to aid recovery.


I've seen members in the past talking about how they think the site is 'bubble wrapped' as it is, if we limit the things we talk about even more, than feeling is going to spread to more members and they won't feel like (I'm assuming here, but it's probably true) they can come here, because they aren't allowed to talk about the things they need to.

[Cryptic.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow White.

I agree with Anna and Amy, and also want to add that I think at some point, one needs to explore the reasons they self harm aka the 'positives' for them. It is only then that they can get an objective look from others going - 'okay, that may be a positive for you, but did you consider x y z consequences? What other ways can you achieve that perceived positive without harming yourself?'

Through looking at these real reasons why we self-harm, we can find a solution that is going to replace the use of self-injury and thus be a more likely candidate in helping us maintain recovery. It's more than just reading 'it felt good', it's about probing into why it felt good and exploring feelings and reasons in a mature way.

I think if your mindset is at a vulnerable state, whereby someone self-harming gives you 'permission' in your mind to self-harm, then I think it's best to stay off the boards discussing self-injury until you're a bit stronger in your convictions and able to challenge your thoughts, or look objectively at the situation.

And Eli, to clarify, I'm not bashing your thoughts as is the way of the internet. I'm just explaining my viewpoint, I understand yours may be different.

Completely agree.

Exploring why you find it so good and why it feels so good to self harm could be helpful because then you could, like you say, try and find other things that give you the same [or at least near close] relief that self harm does, but also explore the whys and hows and such, in general, learning more about yourself and your struggles and your mind/emotions, etc, just in general finding out more about yourself and why you self harm, even if it's not to recover, but to just in general discuss it and discover things about it for yourself.

I do agree with others where saying on this particular site it's a fine line on what is and isn't glamorizing, so maybe we could create some examples for people on what would be glamorizing, and then changing it into another way of saying it so it wouldn't be as such?
I'm not sure.

I'm not triggered easily, so I don't really have problems with reading things like people loving the blood, the gore, the deep wounds, the scars left behind, etc, but I think there is such a fine line on what is acceptable to say and what isn't, and what could be mistaken for being pro as such, and other people do get triggered easily and perhaps aren't prepared for what could be in a thread.

I think what you said is a good point though Aimee,

"I think at some point, one needs to explore the reasons they self harm aka the 'positives' for them. It is only then that they can get an objective look from others going - 'okay, that may be a positive for you, but did you consider x y z consequences? What other ways can you achieve that perceived positive without harming yourself?'

Through looking at these real reasons why we self-harm, we can find a solution that is going to replace the use of self-injury and thus be a more likely candidate in helping us maintain recovery. It's more than just reading 'it felt good', it's about probing into why it felt good and exploring feelings and reasons in a mature way. "

- All of this, I agree with 100%!!!

I think exploring both the negatives and the positives could be really useful, because that way, you can be logical about the negatives, and with the positives, you can try to find other ways to find these positives[healthier ways], and also be logical about them too, to explore why it is you want whatever it is self harm gives you.


I do think there should be more talk on the self harm board of people who are not recovering but do want to obviously discuss what's going on for them, right now, I see a lot "I'm about to relapse" "I've gone x days without self harm but it's about to go down the drain" "I feel like I'm gonna slip up", a lot of statements that indicate people who are actively trying to recover or are recovering, but not much from people who aren't recovering, and are struggling themselves...

People who aren't recovering though, do have different mindsets than those who are trying to recover - obviously.

So, maybe we could get the ball rolling somehow for people to feel more comfortable in being open about what's happening for them and about their self harm, even if they aren't actively recovering?

Maybe say what wouldn't be acceptable and glamorizing, and what would be, if people are going to explore the positives of self harming?



I'm sorry this is so longggg, but yeh, I do think we could be more lenient and more open with the self harm discussions and in general.

I could have just said that, but yeah, I like the long rambles haha.

[Taliesin]

Sorry then. Carry on...

[Cryptic.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taliesin

My two cents worth is quite simply...

I don't self harm a lot. Most of my time is spent finding reasons not to and I usually succeed. Reading, "I cut and it felt so good" or good things about self harm will flat out make me want to self harm and quite often I end up doing it because it puts thoughts into my head that it's okay "just this one time" because it worked for these people.

Feel free to bash me for my opinion as is the way of the Internet. Thank you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Sorry then. Carry on...

People do have to take responsibility for themselves, I do agree with what everyone else is saying about this, especially if they are in an unsafe mindset and are easily triggered as it is, you have to take the responsibility of not going in certain boards if they trigger you/will trigger you and make you want to act on urges.

We aren't ignoring you, but we are pointing out you need to be responsible for yourself and recognize if you are feeling like you want to self harm, and if seeing certain things will make you feel it's okay to self harm because other people are or in general just trigger you more, then you need to avoid going near the self harm board and perhaps just take a break away from this site and the computer in general if you are going to be triggered by being on this site and seeing these things and come back when you are in a better mindset and able to deal with seeing triggering things.

We all have to take responsibility for ourselves, more so when we are in an unsafe, unstable place, and yes, it can be difficult to do this, but this site is full of triggering materials and words and such, that can't be helped, but what you can do is help yourself when you're thinking being on here could make things worse.

[Taliesin]

The discussion just sounds like we have to make all of RYL open... it doesn't really sound like I'd have any place to go if I wanted to avoid "open" conversation as there wouldn't be a rule and it could be... anywhere... that idea is scary to me as I like this site but if that becomes the case i don't think i can use the forums anymore or i will only worsen my own behaviours.

[Cryptic.]

I understand that it can be a scary prospect perhaps, because it would mean there would be both sides of self harm, positives and negatives, being discussed, but perhaps these threads could be labeled as such if it's going to cause triggers for people if they see the positives and could trigger them into wanting those positives?
I know there's a lot of people who hate labels as it is, and want to cut down on them though.
I'm not sure, but some people just want to be able to discuss the other side of self harm, where in they aren't recovering but still want to be open about what's happening for them and their self harming, but I do understand it could be a scary change.
Like I said, maybe we could say what wouldn't be acceptable and glamorizing, and what would be, if people are going to explore the positives of self harming?

I'm not sure what to suggest here!
Don't want to cause any arguments or be attacked lol, so I don't know.
x

[Taliesin]

I don't see the point in excessive labeling... but i think it's silly to think that some people don't benefit from a simple "possible trigger" warning on a thread...

[Cryptic.]

Perhaps that could be put in place then? Saying it may trigger beside the title if it's going to be about this? I know talking about the positives of self harming can certainly be triggering for a lot of people, but it can be useful to identify these positives so you can explore deeper into why you're craving these positives that self harm seems to provide, even if it's short term. It could help some people, but I know it could also be very graphic and triggering for others. So maybe this could be an idea too, putting that it may trigger/is triggering?

x

[Taliesin]

i'd just like to know WHAT to avoid... if i'm meant to "man up" and be "responsible for myself" and avoid these things... it's a bit hard to avoid them if I cannot identify them until I click and read it and am exposed to it...

[Cryptic.]

I'm sure the titles would be a give away on what the post/thread will be about? And when you roll over a thread, you can see a little preview of it, maybe read the preview of it, and stop if you feel it could be something that would trigger you?

x

[Taliesin]

The titles are no indication, lol. People write willy nilly, happy things, random stuff... and check some of the previews on the forum already. First line, "Last night I cut a huge gash in my arm"... nice. It's already like that and it already makes me jump back and feel nauseous... but now there are plans for it to be even more intense and to have no warning at all...

[Cryptic.]

I understand that, I do, some previews/titles can trigger you without even seeing the whole thread, but if you're feeling like you are in a place where you could be triggered and are feeling like self harming, maybe avoid the most triggering boards until you're feeling more safer and more in control?

x

[Taliesin]

That's what I do... but if RYL becomes all open and label free I'll just have to avoid RYL I suppose. I don't think there's really anywhere else to go. Recovery sites and pro sites... when you don't want to be pro and can't be on a recovery site, well.

[Snow White.]

Perhaps you could avoid reading other threads in, for example, the self-injury support/serious discussion forums when you're feeling that way? But if you want support make your own thread and stick to that?

I don't know, I don't think this is calling for RYL to be any more 'open' than it already is. To me, a lot of these discussions are already happening.

[bitomato]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 666th Pope

Are we allowed to post about what we like about self harm? Im not a regular poster here anymore and I'm not sure whats allowed here now.
....... I just want to talk to people about why I enjoy cutting not how long its been since i last did it.

Im not saying I want to make a thread thats all "yeah go self harm woot", but one where i can openly say "So i cut myself the other week and its made this really neat scar." or "Sometimes I cut and it bleeds everywhere other times no blood? whys that?" Things like this I wouldn't post in the s/h forum, in case someone gets "triggered".

So am I the only one who would want something like this? And i guess more importantly would it be allowed?

The irony of this entire thread- proves RYL is such a community where Mr. Pope's "topic" of interest is being discussed (we are onto page 3 now) and hasn't been been closed. By putting a potentially triggering note in the label allows for you to post in related forums. Although I do appreciate it being here and not in the actual forum. This tells me the discussion is more administrative than clinical i.e. what should this site allow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 666th Pope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aunty T
But it is maladapative. Yes, I self harm. No, I'm not trying to stop. But I do hope I will one day. And belonging to a site which actively encouraged self harm, would not be conducive to that.

There is a time and a place for discussing self harm, and RYL really isn't it. Anyway, back on topic, OP is suggesting things like:

would be okay, which insinuates that the self harm behind it is ok, which essentially glamorizes self harm.

This whole post. Im not suggesting we change the whole site to be about glamorising self harm. Im not saying that we should actively encourage self harm. Why do you think this would make it so? Admitting that I self harm does not glamorise self harm does it?

I know explaining why I used RYL to my family was difficult. They thought it made me think about SH more. And made SH "normal". But like having a serious mental health condition- I needed to know that I was not alone. RYL community were the only people I knew that SH and to now- I know 2 people who SH as in I recognise the scars or cover ups- but I never discuss it in public.

RYL does allow for people to be at different stages of recovery. It will continue to evolve as do people. The internet provides anonymity. But as has been my issue as a health care provider- the policy of RYL is to respect the autonomy of its users. RYL is not "safe" in the sense of a medical service. At the end of the day everyone is responsible for themselves.

Taliesin's concern about being alienated is not for other people to advise him to self monitor. People break rules on this site all the time. I had to deal with a person threatening suicide, sending me numerous good bye notes, and all RYL could do is tell me stop talking to them. They could neither breach confidentiality and send an emergency team/ contact to see if the person was carrying out their threats; or block the person from RYL because people are allowed to talk about their desire to OD quite openly.

Solution I had to impose a ban on myself from the site for a few weeks. I was using it everyday, and my contribution mattered. Then one day I went on in a vulnerable state and dealt with 3 suicidal people in chat for hours, when I had wanted support. I helped them but then felt highly triggered. This last person refused my help and no matter how much I helped others- I was triggered. I wanted to OD.

So I had to take a step back and remind myself of where I am in my recovery journey. I do not see this thread as trolling. But I am wary of the "blind leading the blind". What Taliesin wants may not be what Snow White or Mr. Pope wants from this site for example and different from what I want. But we are a community. Rules should change for the betterment of all. Discussions like this allow for reflection on how RYL functions while staying amicable signals that RYL is doing its job.

I am really proud of everyone who posted in this thread and thanks to the OP for starting it. Please do not get personal- because at the end of the day; selfharm is very personal and you cannot force people to get help if they do not want it- and in reality there is a block button and a log off button. The type of support offered by RYL should not be the only support you have. It is NOT the real world.

Even if a thread triggers you- you are responsible for what you do. However, once you are a member of RYL you need to respect the rules. Any system without rules is anarchy.

[GlitterTrashDoll]

The trigger labels were removed and replaced by labels saying "Contains X" a while ago after loads of discussion and it was deemed more suitable.

If you feel something may trigger you and you don't want to take a risk, then avoid that part of the forum until you feel okay to read it.

If we were to implement the trigger labels again (which, personally I think would be a terrible idea), I wouldn't be surprised to see 90% of threads in the support boards with the label attached to them.

If you are in the serious board, you should expect sensitive issues being talked about that are likely to trigger, if you are in the self harm support board then there's going to be talk about cutting and such. So why the need to trigger labels? You know what's going to be talked about in the boards and the general gist of most of the threads by the title of the forum and the description.

Like I said, people already complain that they feel the site is too 'bubble wrapped' as it is, adding more trigger/warning labels, really isn't going to help it in the slightest, in my opinion anyway.

[The One Who]

Quote:

Originally Posted by [StarStruck]

Maybe say what wouldn't be acceptable and glamorizing, and what would be, if people are going to explore the positives of self harming?

The problem is that what some people find to be glamorising, is what another needs to talk about. It's tricky, and unless it's obviously "pro" or glamorising, I don't know if we could ever say one way or the other. Different people in different mindsets would read it differently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [StarStruck]

Perhaps that could be put in place then? Saying it may trigger beside the title if it's going to be about this?

No! That's why we got rid of the trigger labels in the first place, because they were used excessively and rendered them meaningless. In the support boards, you expect there to be triggering content, what with it being a self-harm support forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taliesin

The discussion just sounds like we have to make all of RYL open... it doesn't really sound like I'd have any place to go if I wanted to avoid "open" conversation as there wouldn't be a rule and it could be... anywhere... that idea is scary to me as I like this site but if that becomes the case i don't think i can use the forums anymore or i will only worsen my own behaviours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taliesin

i'd just like to know WHAT to avoid... if i'm meant to "man up" and be "responsible for myself" and avoid these things... it's a bit hard to avoid them if I cannot identify them until I click and read it and am exposed to it...

What do you mean by "open", and what do you want to see? What is there now that you wouldn't want to see in future?

[Fitzwilliam]

Just a quick one penny here to reiterate something that has been said.
About talking about the 'positives' of self harm...isn't that the kind of thing I therapist (psych etc) talks to you about, before you even start thinking about recovery and ways to stop? Because you need to understand why you do it? (what it does etc).

Sorry if this isn't helpful, but yeah. In my experience I've been asked about why I think it is a 'good' thing (couldn't think of a better way of putting it) by mental health professionals.