Has it ever occured to you that you past recreational drug use could have something to do with the psychosis not the pharmaceutical drugs? Yes you are clean now but the lasting damage.
Definitely. I experienced some traumatic events early on in my life. A large reason for taking drugs & getting involved in the drug scene was; I think; an attempt to alleviate certain emotional & mental pain. Drugs are obviously not a solution. My use of illicit drugs at the least exasperated psychosis; & at most they caused it. I used to have massive highs & lows in my drug taking - I would wager the highs & lows were greater than most who are in that lifestyle. Through my own effort; & with a lot of help from people outside of the "orthodox" I was finally able to get clean & stay off the street drugs.
When I got clean I changed GP - & was told that it was totally unethical to have been diagnosed with anything other than a drug induced psychosis. Indeed; when I was 17 I had been diagnosed with drug induced psychosis, & sectioned for 5 months in a secure unit. Knowing my history & drug abuse issues - these problems were never addressed, & no support was ever offered by orthodox services. In fact - after a while; & the second section at aged 21 - these drug problems were flatly ignored & denied, at the least they were passed off as not having anything to do with the psychosis. Hard to imagine or fathom why? Considering the large amounts of drugs I was consuming.
My active addiction & drug problems were obvious reasons for either cause, or at the least exasperating psychosis. So why were these problems not addressed? Why was I labelled Schizophrenic & stuck on meds? Why was there no attempt to help with any kind of rehabilitation; that nothing was done to assist in any kind of practical way? Or to address any of the difficult life circumstances I had at the time?
Drug addiction is no different to alcoholism - which is recognised as a disease. A solution of which is a program of abstinence - more commonly through 12 step methods. There is no chemical solution to addiction/alcoholism; & I would consider that the idea of a "Chemical solution" in general is an oxymoron anyway.
I take the meds in the morning. Yesterday I forgot to take them until the evening - that happens sometimes. I started immediately feeling odd & in withdrawal - it only takes a day for the withdrawal symptoms to start.
How can I tell the difference between withdrawal problems and relapse? There are three ways to tell if symptoms are the result of withdrawal, according to one expert, David Healy, who applied it to SSRIs in particular:
The problems begin immediately after reducing or stopping the drug. (If the original problem has been treated, it should be some time before the symptoms come back, if ever.)
The symptoms disappear if you go back on the drug, or raise the dose.
You are experiencing new symptoms as well as some of those that were a feature of your original condition (flu-like symptoms as well as depression, for instance).
These are the kind of withdrawal effects you might encounter:
Antipsychotics Withdrawal psychosis and tardive dyskinesia are two of the most serious problems. There could also be other less severe but still unpleasant effects to contend with: flu-like effects (nausea, vomiting, diarrhoea, headaches, chills, sweating, runny nose); movement problems (involuntary twitches, muscle spasms and tics); psychological effects (insomnia, anxiety, agitation, irritability, and psychosis, including hallucinations, delusions, confusion and disorientation). The psychological effects may be little different from the symptoms of the original problem, and it may be very hard to know for certain which it is.
Neuroleptic malignant syndrome is a very serious condition, which some people have developed on drug withdrawal. It can also occur as a side effect of the drugs. It can be life-threatening and involves changes in consciousness, abnormal movements and fever. It is important to seek medical treatment immediately.
- What I am experiencing is drug withdrawal in previous attempts to stop this drug. I have given it my best to get off this drug. Due to a lack of the support I need & severe withdrawal reactions; I have been unable to successfully stop this drug. My last withdrawal attempt was a 2 year detox from this drug.
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I am no longer going to bother to reply to this. You have your opinions and i have mine. Yes i am fortunate to have had good psychiatric help but this hasnt always been the case. I have been screwed around and over by the system and yes it sucks. i have been forced to take pills, endure 48 courses of shock treatment, been restrained countless occasions and what did it all achieve??? So yeah i am sorry you were forced meds, but i dont believe that you cannot stop them by withdrawing them slowly
I have tried everything within my power to get off these drugs. I cannot as my present situation stands. I have to accept taking & being utterly dependant on them.
I am sorry for your treatment also. I have some horrific stories of my treatment over the years also. I speak out against the orthodox - for not only do I think they are very wrong in the way they address the issues of mental illness; but also as I have seen so much damage caused by the present system.
Last edited by MadderThanAJudge : 29-12-2008 at 03:06 PM.
Reason: Spelling
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection". - Einstein
I'm not a moderator (perhaps a moderator could help?) but I guess if you're looking for 'intelligent discussion & interesting conversation' then it's debate - which as I understand it is a different forum.
If you'd like to share how you're feeling then this would be the forum. You seem quite frustrated by the treatment you've had - what support would help you?
Primarily Tokoloshe I am looking for support & perspectives to my situation & circumstances; maybe from people who have gone before on this path, or who may have experience which differs to mine.
I hold very deep resentment with orthodox psychiatry & with the wider society. I am frustrated with a lack of support & genuine help - as well as with certain issues I have in my life. Ideally I would like the opportunity for a Jungian based recovery/support model. At best something like the Soteria or Diabasis Projects (there are other too). Unfortunately there is nothing like that presently running in the UK; where I live; & my financial position is a very limiting factor in what treatment & support I can access.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection". - Einstein
I know i said i was no longer going to reply, but i was extremely agigtated the other day when i replied so hence my posts sometimes reflect my mental state. Feeling better now =)
I think it is terrific that you managed to stop the recreational drugs, and yes i believe that they should treat the underlying issues such as drug addiction before labelling you with a mental illness.
Sorry i read your profile... i was just wondering though (this is just speculation so correct me if i am wrong) you were 17 at the time so you entered mental health services about 18 years ago. I know what i am trying to explain so i apologise if this comes out wrong. Do you think that the treatment you recieved may have been a reflection of the social period of the time?
This is just speculation but i have only been in mental health services for 6 or so years, and i have noticed that the focus has somewhat changed since i first entered them. It used to have more of an emphasis on medications, now however alot more people are offered therapy, rehab, being treated as an outpatient. This could be the country i live in though, what country are you from?
I have spent alot of time in hospital aswell and i have to say that whilst inpatient, there is too much emphasis on drugs. I was never offered any kind of talk therapy while in there and they seem to have a drug for everything! Its like oh your angry...here have a lorazepam, or you are being to loud...have a IM injection of halapederol, or you cant sleep so here have some more benzo's.
Personally i think the overuse of pharmaceutical drugs in a hospital setting is to create less work for the staff there. The ironic thing now is i will prob be in therapy for at least another year because i have been so traumatised by the stuff i saw and the things i expereinced whilst i was inpatient.
I know how hard it can be to come off drugs, I have had a terrible time coming off a few. The withdrawl symptoms though (for me) were transient. which meant for two weeks i had a hard time. I think one of my reasonings behind being so pro medication is due to my profession and also due to the fact that without medication i am unable to sleep.
Are you recieving any type of therapy now? Sorry you have probably mentioned it but i cant be bothered going back and reading the other posts.
I know i said i was no longer going to reply, but i was extremely agigtated the other day when i replied so hence my posts sometimes reflect my mental state. Feeling better now =)
Glad that your feeling better & Thanks for your reply.
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Sorry i read your profile... i was just wondering though (this is just speculation so correct me if i am wrong) you were 17 at the time so you entered mental health services about 18 years ago. I know what i am trying to explain so i apologise if this comes out wrong. Do you think that the treatment you recieved may have been a reflection of the social period of the time?
Yes, definitely. Things today are far from perfect; but they were a hell of a lot worse when I was first in hospital 18 odd years ago. I do realise that there have been changes. There is far more emphasis on home treatment; talking therapies; & far more in the way of support for those experiencing a first psychotic break. The orthodox does appear to realise that the first signs of psychosis; especially in the young; can have far more favourable outcomes if approached more thoroughly & therapeutically.
My perceptions of the system are coloured very much by my own experiences; & are not always accurate as to how things are today. The 1980's & 90's to a degree; did appear to see a lot of emphasis on medications. In the late 60's & early 70's there appeared a leaning towards other areas of treatment, in some circles. Things today do seem as if they have swung back towards more "alternative" or less fixed treatments. At the least there appears more acknowledgement of other areas of treatment & less focus on medication as the only option.
But; different countries, areas, individual practitioners & individual cases can vary so much.
I have heard that the Scandinavian countries especially; have taken a very much more holistic & therapeutic approach to mental illness; with a lot of community support; & the emphasis has shifted away from medication as a first treatment. Even in the UK - there does appear to be less emphasis on meds & at high doses. there does appear to be a realisation that multiple factors & treatments are needed for effective recovery. That meds are only one part of a tool kit for recovery.
The other factor which has impacted my treatment in the past is that I am from a very rural area. There is a severe lack of services in the area I am from.
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This is just speculation but i have only been in mental health services for 6 or so years, and i have noticed that the focus has somewhat changed since i first entered them. It used to have more of an emphasis on medications, now however alot more people are offered therapy, rehab, being treated as an outpatient. This could be the country i live in though, what country are you from?
I live on the South Coast of England (UK). I moved area some 7 years ago; to a much bigger town along the coast, & since being picked up by the services here, some 4 years ago; there has been a big difference in care. Although still lacking, I have been kept under regular 3-4 monthly psychiatrist appointments; I have seen a couple of CPN's, & I have finally been given some psychological help. MIND & RETHINK also operate in the area, & I have used their drop in groups & advocacy services.
Which country do you live in?
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I have spent alot of time in hospital aswell and i have to say that whilst inpatient, there is too much emphasis on drugs. I was never offered any kind of talk therapy while in there and they seem to have a drug for everything! Its like oh your angry...here have a lorazepam, or you are being to loud...have a IM injection of halapederol, or you cant sleep so here have some more benzo's.
Yes, it is like that. Drugs do have a place; but I think there should be far more in the way of more therapeutic, & talking, therapies. The most effective relief & assistance for me; has come form chatting to others. Initially in hospital with the nursing staff & especially other patients; & then later on with certain friends, other psychiatric survivors, & others.
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Personally i think the overuse of pharmaceutical drugs in a hospital setting is to create less work for the staff there. The ironic thing now is i will prob be in therapy for at least another year because i have been so traumatised by the stuff i saw and the things i expereinced whilst i was inpatient.
It can be very traumatic to go through the system. I was very traumatised by my experiences; firstly of the "condition" & then by the reaction to it.
I think that there will always be things with me which are unresolved & which play on my mind sometimes. The recovery journey for me has been slow & gradual.
Very much recently I have been in a place of working through things, of continuing to let things go & to move on from reliving of certain experiences, & times in the past. I do try as much as possible to live in the present & deal with things which come up. I am also working on an on-line study course with ACT therapy (Acceptance & Commitment Therapy). The course is free; all I have to do is to fill in regular assessments. The workbook is also available from book sellers (if anyone is interested). I am finding it helpful. It is all a part of an ongoing effort to deal with stuff & try to live as best I can.
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I know how hard it can be to come off drugs, I have had a terrible time coming off a few. The withdrawl symptoms though (for me) were transient. which meant for two weeks i had a hard time. I think one of my reasonings behind being so pro medication is due to my profession and also due to the fact that without medication i am unable to sleep.
Yes, it can be very hard. I have been battling recently with trying to stop the cigarettes. I got to 6 weeks & was involved in a car accident & had a lot of other stress too - I folded & started the Ciggies again. I am going to try & stop again soon.
What is your profession? Sleep problems have been a big part of things with me too.
My pattern with stopping the meds in the past; & when I have been ill, is that I start experiencing an anxiety that does not alleviate & gets worse & worse; this leads to racing thoughts & lack of sleep; which feeds into more anxiety; the anxiety turns into paranoia; & after a few days of not sleeping my thinking becomes delusional. On the tablets I do have a quality of life; generally I manage, I sleep, although I have sleep problems; especially with nightmares & getting to sleep. I also get anxiety; but I do keep it in check. In one way the meds are good in taking the edge off things; but this is also what I dislike about them. It is like I am almost in a kind of dream or a cloud. Like I am not quite fully awake; & not fully experiencing things.
I have to try to look at this med situation; that I am processing stuff & feeling things; that I do have emotions & clarity of thought. But I go between acceptance of the meds; to total non-acceptance of having to take them; & blaming them for many things which I see as problems in my life. I am lethargic, slow at getting things done. My sex drive is affected; I have not been in a relationship for over 10 years; the whole time I have been on the tablets. I worry about the long term health risks of this drug; also the potential cognitive impairment. I try to just accept that for the time being, taking this med is the lesser of two evils. I do feel though; that had I received better support & help in the past; that I would not need to be on it.
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Are you recieving any type of therapy now? Sorry you have probably mentioned it but i cant be bothered going back and reading the other posts.
I am very grateful in that I have built up a good support network of people I can chat with. I do have good friends & a close family. I am very close to my mum & bro. I have been on at the LMHT (Local Mental Health Team) for many years about psychological help. It has taken around 3 years, & two assessment appointments; to finally get to see a psychologist. I have had around 6 sessions so far & they are in agreement to more. It is going well. In the past I have had other limited sessions with counsellors, over the past 7 years, once with a trainee, once at the GP's surgery, & once with a support worker with a local drug support service. All three times I ended up ill, & the sessions were contributing factors. They were all inexperienced, ineffectual & frankly - not suitable therapists for me.
I am glad to have found this present psychologist; who is experienced, very well trained, intelligent, & very perceptive. They have helped me to gain insight into many things which I had no realisation of before. & they are helping me explore the behaviours & thinking patterns I have; especially around issues of abandonment & resentment. All this is helping with the process of healing & letting go.
These past few months I have felt much better "within", & more hopeful & optimistic about the future. My life is in a fine balance. With work I think I can improve my lot with many things. It is a case of plodding on; & making the gradual change to a fuller life & deeper recovery.
Last edited by MadderThanAJudge : 30-12-2008 at 04:56 PM.
Reason: Syntax
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection". - Einstein
In line with the treatment I would have preferred; & feel would have been far more effective in my case; here is an article on "John Weir Perry". I have read most of his books & I would highly recommend them.
They miss the whisper that runs
any day in your mind,
"Who are you really, wanderer?"--
and the answer you have to give
no matter how dark and cold
the world around you is:
"Maybe I'm a king."
The terror of psychosis–and the terrifying treatments to which the “mental patient” is subjected–remains a source of bafflement to the outsider and a source of frustration to many practitioners in the mental health field. Although the literature is fraught with descriptions of symptoms, diagnoses, theories, and methods of treatment, few researchers address the patient as an equal. Rare, indeed, is the practitioner who has come to view psychosis as a strange sign of health: as an attempt to heal or as a stage in a developmental process that transports the subject beyond sickness or health and into a positive transformation of the self.
Such an exception is John Weir Perry. His Far Side of Madness remains a classic in the field for all these reasons. Working in the lonely tradition of Carl Jung and R.D. Laing, who each viewed psychosis as potentially purposive and telic in nature, Perry describes the goals – and the terrible dangers – that are typically portrayed in the psychotic journey.
Perry’s work in traditional psychiatric settings led him to conclude that those in the thrall of an acute psychotic episode are rarely listened to or met on the level of their visionary state of consciousness. Instead, every imaginable way to silence the patients–to ignore and to disapprove of their nonrational language and experience–was called into play, thereby increasing their sense of isolation, alienation, and so-called madness. (Although the book was first published in 1974, things have not substantially changed in state mental hospitals or in community residence settings. To explore the strange imagery of psychosis with a client in a counseling session is viewed as “feeding into their delusional system,” and it is sternly discouraged by psychiatrists and social workers.) Perry’s work with those in acute stages of psychosis revealed that their pre-psychotic personalities were the true source of the “sickness.” Forced to live an emotionally impoverished life, the psyche had reacted by forcing a transformation in the form of a “compensating” psychosis, during which a drama in depth was enacted, forcing the initiate to undergo certain developmental processes.
Such psychic processes, which are accompanied by rich, emotional imagery, yield amazing parallels to classical myths and to obscure rituals of antiquity:
The individual finds himself living in a psychic modality quite different from his surroundings. He is immersed in a myth world ... His emotions no longer connect with ordinary things, but drop into concerns and titanic involvements with an entire inner world of myth and image.
Although the imagery is of a general, archetypal nature (“imagery that pertains to all men and all times”), it also portrays the key issues of the individual undergoing the crisis. Therefore, once lived through on this mythic plane, and once the process of withdrawal nears its end, the images must be linked to specific problems of daily life. Thus, the archetypal affect images await a reconnection to their natural context: to the personal psychological complexes (which are externally projected).
The notion of a “reorganization of the Self” is central to Perry’s approach to the psychotic journey. Extreme damage to the self-image was the typical pattern involved in the cases he studied. Injury to the self-image is so severe that, during a crisis, psychic energy leaves the higher levels of consciousness and is attracted to the psychic depths, where an archetypal process of renewal commences. The goal is not only to restore self-esteem but also to engender a “capacity to love and be loved.”
For this to occur, there must be a connecting link with another human being (and not necessarily a link with “professional”): one that instills warmth and trust. This will allow a forward progression of the inner-imagery (reminiscent of Jung’s statement that a schizophrenic is no longer schizophrenic when he feels understood by someone else). Therefore, “analysis” seems (at least, at this stage) secondary to the basic human consideration of kindness. In place of an omniscient psychotherapist, Perry posits the autonomous psychic process as a crucial factor at this point in transformation.
Perry searched for and finally discovered a regular pattern of imagery and ideation in the psychotic process. The “negative self-image” is typically be compensated by an “overblown” archetypal one, the latter manifesting in imagery such as that of the hero, clown, saint, ghost, or sovereign leader. In addition, there is a sense of “participating in some form of drama or ritual performance.” Most significantly, ten sets of motifs emerged:
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection". - Einstein
Religious or Spiritual Problem is a new diagnostic category (Code V62.89) in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual-Fourth Edition (APA, 1994). While the acceptance of this new category was based on a proposal documenting the extensive literature on the frequent occurrence of religious and spiritual issues in clinical practice, the impetus for the proposal came from transpersonal clinicians whose initial focus was on spiritual emergencies--forms of distress associated with spiritual practices and experiences. The proposal grew out of the work of the Spiritual Emergence Network to increase the competence of mental health professionals in sensitivity to such spiritual issues. This article describes the rationale for this new category, the history of the proposal, transpersonal perspectives on spiritual emergency, types of religious and spiritual problems (with case illustrations), differential diagnostic issues, psychotherapeutic approaches, and the likely increase in number of persons seeking therapy for spiritual problems. It also presents the preliminary findings from a database of religious and spiritual problems.
Introduction
"Religious or Spiritual Problem" is a new diagnostic category (Code V62.89) in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual-Fourth Edition (APA, 1994). The Thesaurus of Psychological Index Terms (Walker, 1991) states that religiosity "is associated with religious organizations and religious personnel" (p. 184) whereas spirituality refers to the "degree of involvement or state of awareness or devotion to a higher being or life philosophy. Not always related to conventional religious beliefs" (p. 208). Thus religious problems involve a person's conflicts over the beliefs, practices, rituals and experiences related to a religious institution. Some forms of spirituality presume no external divine or transcendent forces (e.g., humanistic-phenomenological spirituality) (Elkins, Hedstrom, Hughes, Leaf, and Saunders,1988), and spiritual problems involve distress associated with a person's relationship to a higher power or transcendent force that is not related to a religious organization.
While the acceptance of this new category was based on a proposal documenting the extensive literature on the frequent occurrence of religious and spiritual issues in clinical practice, the impetus for the proposal came from transpersonal clinicians whose initial focus was on spiritual emergencies--forms of distress associated with spiritual practices and experiences. The proposal grew out of the work of the Spiritual Emergence Network (Prevatt and Park, 1989) to increase the competence of mental health professionals in sensitivity to such spiritual issues. This article describes the rationale for this new category, the history of the proposal that was presented to the Task Force on DSM-IV, transpersonal perspectives on spiritual emergency, types of spiritual problems (with case illustrations), differential diagnostic issues, therapeutic approaches for spiritual problems, and the likely increase in number of persons seeking therapy for spiritual problems.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection". - Einstein
Eighty-odd years ago, Jung voiced his deep concern that the powerful, often vivid, chaotic and disturbing psychology of schizophrenia, which he had so painstakingly chartered and honoured throughout the many years he treated and healed schizophrenia sufferers, had not been given the respect and serious attention it deserved. He likewise lamented the appalling lack of knowledge of the psychology of schizophrenia among those of his own profession, a situation which has changed precious little today.
Sadly, however, Jung's vast body of invaluable work has fallen for the most on hostile ground and deaf ears, ironically in psychiatric circles, largely because Jung's respect for 'the reality of the psyche' and its religious, mythic and spiritual needs, dimensions and instincts poses a threat to the materialist bias that underscores drug-based, or biologic psychiatry, but also because his personally demanding and soul-centred approach to psychiatry is radically at odds with the detached 'illusion of expertise' on which biologic psychiatry's mask of authority, presumed sanity, and stagnant wasteland of 'brain chemistry' dogma are shakily grounded.
In place of dry textbook knowledge learned by rote, Jung gives precedence to living primary experience, hence his assertion that we understand nothing psychologically unless we've experienced it. In this sense, the people who know most about schizophrenia are the sufferers themselves, followed closely by those who have 'been there' and have pulled themselves out of a psychosis and so 'know the road'. Such folk, as invaluable 'wounded healers', can therefore often guide others groping along similar roads, or pull people out of the quagmires and tricky labyrinths of psychosis.
Equal Therapeutic Dialogue
In place of the practitioner's mask of fatherly authority, Jung puts the mutual vulnerability, openness, imaginal richness, honesty and trust of the therapeutic dialogue, in which patient and therapist confront one another on equal terms and through which both stand to learn and grow. In place of forced treatment, hasty consultations and toxic psychiatric drugs, Jung puts a trust in nature, unconscious wisdom and the healing which, residing in the 'patient patient', is catalysed and midwifed by the caring therapist. No wonder he poses a threat to those who esteem power, professional detachment, diplomas, diagnostic manuals and drug company profits over the empowerment, equality, freedom, healing and dignity of the patient.
Needless to say, there are other closely related and equally grave moral issues at stake here. For instance, imagine, if you will, that a reputable medical practitioner had come forward with evidence of a safe, natural cure for cancer, but that the medical establishment had ignored the evidence and, worse still, had kept the findings from cancer sufferers for fear of losing income and power through their monopoly over the provision of existing anti-cancer 'treatments', which do not heal. By the same token, Jung - and others who have followed in his wake - cured his schizophrenic patients with psychotherapy alone. The tragedy of the 'mental health crisis' is not only, then, that so many already fragile and wounded people have been damaged and driven to suicide; what is equally tragic is that all along, there have existed natural, re-empowering, healing alternatives to psychiatric drugs; alternatives which biologic psychiatry, the Government, Schizophrenia Fellowships and drug companies have in a morally disgraceful way ignored, or deliberately kept from sufferers and the public.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
"The harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection". - Einstein
& Thanks for your reply. 