Yeah i realise this is a self harm support site. Lets just say that knives and razors were banned, how would that stop people talking about there problems and how would it mean that the definition of what ryl was about would need to be changed? You can still talk about your problems without saying the name. Anyway i think iv said enough for now il give other people a chance to have there say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avalanche I just saw a thread in Serious Discussion i wont mention the name or anything but it was about self harm and suicide and the thread did not contain one mention of any tool/s. Personally and i dont mean this to sound rude but to say that by not allowing knives and razors to be mentioned that people wouldnt be able to get support is over the top.
Oh and this thread i saw and the fact they didnt mention any tools it didnt stop them from getting support did it? No.
Because if you are having intrusive thoughts about doing something. And you ask for support to "stop me doing x". It's very difficult to get adequate replies when people don't know what it is and people can't gauge the seriousness. There's a big difference between being triggered to break the skin or do something potentially fatal. And when your thoughts are that intrusive it's incredibly hard to make a post about it removing all references to tools and behaviours. In essence by tightening the rules you penalise those who are likely to be in most mental distress and are most vulnerable of doing themselves serious injury.
I agree with Avalanche that it is unnecessary to mention the tool in question. It just makes the thread more triggering and more graphic. Surely it is enough to say "I want to cut," instead of giving pointlessly graphic details like "I want to take a knife and cut" - mentioning the tool does not actually add anything to the meaning of the sentence, so why do it?
I'm not offering an opinion on the issue at hand, but I just wanted to commend everyone who has taken part in this thread so far, for discussing this matter calmly and respectfully, even though some members are disagreeing with each other.
One question I would like to know from those who like the idea of banning the mention of knives and razor blades. If these common everyday objects trigger people, how do people cope in the real world? How do they set fut in a kitchen without being triggered? How can they shave their legs in the shower? People come into contact with these things every day.
I think that things should be as they are, i mean everyone knows certain things (like a knife) is sharp and will cut you, but there are some more inventive things that people don't know about, which i think would be good to keep a lid on. For example, I now regularly harm myself in a way which i learnt in a secure unit through something we weren't allowed. On the flip side, I was trying to seek help the other day and found it very dificult to know what i could and couldn't say, like would saying you were thinking about throwing yourself infront of a car or off a building be ok, or would that be tip sharing? Cos once the word scissors got removed from one of my posts, i was sure that'd be ok.. they are made for cutting after all. Whatever happens, it would help if the rules are clearer!
~~I'm FINE...on the outside~~
~~Beneath the surface lies a shattered heart and an exhausted soul, simply longing... just longing to be whole~~
I believe that saying you want to kill yourself by throwing yourself off a building or in front of a car is allowed. Mentioning you wanted to hang yourself but then mentioning how you wanted to hang yourself would result in your post being edited because it would be deemed tipsharing.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
I think its safe to assume that everyone on this site knows exactly what they could or would use if they intended to self-harm, and its also safe to assume that they've used that object to self-harm in the past.
I am probably one of the 3 people exposed to the most "tip sharing" information on RYL. I'm a medical expert, I've worked in an A&E, I've been on RYL for over several years. Why is this relevant? Because about once a month someone PMs me asking for advice and they've used a method that I would have never come up with in a million years.
So yeah, I don't thinking lessening the rules is a good thing at all. Personally I think the guidelines are ok how they are now. Most people don't get too specific with things usually.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
I think it is definitely an issue of context. Occasionally, I will mention tools in my r/v thread but I either hide them w/ a trigger warning or at least white out the text. And they're fairly common tools anyways.
On the other hand, someone saying, "Oh, I harm with xxx" can be either tipsharing or blatantly obvious, depending what it is. I say this because if it is a common SI-ing tool or something with an obvious blade I don't see it as somethig a person couldn't have deduced him/herself. On the other hand I once had someone tell me in conversation that they used something to cut that I'd never even be able to imagine how it would work, and though I didn't go try it, I was curious, and situations like that can lead to unsafe discovery of new "methods" for some people.
I have to say, I don't really see how, if there were a ban placed on tool naming, it would make it harder for people to get support.
The following content has been hidden - Reason : just examples, poss triggering
They can still say "I feel really unsafe and want to do serious damage to myself", or even "I want to slice xxx open" without saying with what, and they will get just as much support as they would by saying, "I really want to slice xxx open with this really sharp xxx"
so I guess, I think it seems like things are okay as of now. I rarely even see tool mentions that are common SI tools, and until reading this thread didn't know they were even allowed anywhere but R&V. So I guess if there are issues, they are uncommon enough to be handled on a case-by-case basis...unless mods have been noticing too many of these issues?
Because if you are having intrusive thoughts about doing something. And you ask for support to "stop me doing x". It's very difficult to get adequate replies when people don't know what it is and people can't gauge the seriousness. There's a big difference between being triggered to break the skin or do something potentially fatal. And when your thoughts are that intrusive it's incredibly hard to make a post about it removing all references to tools and behaviours. In essence by tightening the rules you penalise those who are likely to be in most mental distress and are most vulnerable of doing themselves serious injury.
in my opinion, it's really to the contrary - getting support for something, whether it be feelings of suicide or being triggered or whatever - isn't dependent on giving details as to how you would/did go about hurting yourself. if the point of RYL is support, then having rules against saying a particular tool puts the emphasis on the root of the problem - the fact that you want to harm yourself in the first place - and that isn't going to affect whether or not you get more responses.
censoring out specific tools puts the emphasis on the feeling and the act, not the tool, therefore making it clear what you're going through without possibly tip-sharing or triggering people.
it's just me, but it's so much more triggering for me to read a post where someone gives details like that, and that actually makes me less likely to respond to the post. so...like i said. in my opinion it's the other way around.
In one way - not allowing certain naming is a good idea. There isn't really any *need* to say "I've got a knife and I want to use it". What's wrong with saying "I have a tool in my room and I want to use it"? Does the fact the OP stated the name of the tool make it anymore *urgent*? Hopefully not. We want to support everyone all the same. I agree with Chels1 here, even though the rules are in place I've still learnt new ways of doing things by being on here and I haven't even been here a year yet. As regards Ranting/Venting Forum.. well, most threads in there are very much so more triggering than the rest of the site. It's where you're ranting out everything, of course it is. Many many many threads I read on that Forum mention a tool at least once. Even though not all our members are at the point of being able to get into recovery - it doesn't mean we can't try and keep the majority of the site in a more positive/recovery focused way. Would having mentions of tools everywhere really help that?
However.
There is the problem of RYL getting too "bubble wrapped". If we're seriously in the state that reading the word "razor" triggers us beyond belief, well, that isn't really very good. We're going to come across things like that every day.
The following content has been hidden - Reason : possible suicide trigger?
A few days after my attempted "attempt" - the very method using the very place I had planned to do it came up in our local paper.
We can't really escape anything that could possibly be triggering in life, because everyone is triggered by different things and it would be very difficult for RYL to cover everything that could possibly trigger someone. Some forums wouldn't even exist if that was the case. I know this is meant to be a safe haven - but on a self-harm support site, you're gonna come across something like this preeeeetty often.
I think the idea of banning using the words "razor" and "knife" in relation to tools is quite frankly over the top. You can't escape from these things in real life. If people are triggered that easily, then just being on a self harm forum would surely send them into a state of panic?
I'm all for not mentioning the more creative methods of self harm, I can totally understand why that rule is in place, but don't censor out "razor". Too far. Then what next? Ban "paracetamol"?
Isn’t it funny how day by day nothing changes but when you look back, everything is different…
you once called your brain a hard drive, well say hello to the virus.
I think the rules are ok as they are, although there is also a difference between "the norm" between people. What I mean is that some people may find that for example... a razor blade is normal, whilst someone else somewhere else thinks this is abnormal and they think that another "tool" is more normal. also, I agree that if someone has used a more abnormal tool, and they need some information about how to deal with the wound, for example, they need to be able to say what they used to get the most effective reply. I also understand that it can be quite difficult for the FAF team, because they are exposed to the most triggering information, and they may also sometimes struggle with themselves, without wanting to help someone else. That said, they also want to be able to help people who ask for advice about certain tools. I think, if it isn't already, we should be allowed to state in PMs to the FA staff only what tools have been used and where
I think the rules are okay now, as they are..
although i read something about a tool, that kinda gave me ideas and now i've taken to doing that..which isnt good i guess....:S
Also..i don't particularly like the word "tool" it makes it sound..like..i duno...kinda like its work, or something? i cant explain what i mean :( but..i just HATE..actually HATE using the word Tool. :S thats just what i think anyway...
I think the rules are okay now, as they are..
although i read something about a tool, that kinda gave me ideas and now i've taken to doing that..which isnt good i guess....:S
Also..i don't particularly like the word "tool" it makes it sound..like..i duno...kinda like its work, or something? i cant explain what i mean :( but..i just HATE..actually HATE using the word Tool. :S thats just what i think anyway...
I hate the word tool aswell! Actually one time I heard it used it inspired me to go through my Dad's tool box, not a good idea really. I guess implement would be another option were this rule to be enforced (please, please no!)
Another point I would like to make is what better way to glamourise something than to shroud it in secrecy? By not allowing frank and honest discussion of self harm you make it this mysterious, taboo thing. People already have difficulty being open with their problems without adding yet another barrier to their ability to communicate them. And I know a few people have given examples of how certain problems could be put across without resorting a tool but the very fact that a barrier is there could be enough to make someone who is hesitant about posting anyway, not post.
I agree that if someone has used a more abnormal tool, and they need some information about how to deal with the wound, for example, they need to be able to say what they used to get the most effective reply. I also understand that it can be quite difficult for the FAF team, because they are exposed to the most triggering information, and they may also sometimes struggle with themselves, without wanting to help someone else. That said, they also want to be able to help people who ask for advice about certain tools. I think, if it isn't already, we should be allowed to state in PMs to the FA staff only what tools have been used and where
It's already set up like that, people can already share whatever details they want/need to with us via PM or e-mail, so that is already covered. This discussion pertains to the forums and what should be posted there.
Well it breaks my heart to see you this way,
The beauty in life, where's it gone?
And somebody told me you were doing okay,
Somehow I guess they were wrong.
It's already set up like that, people can already share whatever details they want/need to with us via PM or e-mail, so that is already covered. This discussion pertains to the forums and what should be posted there. :)
cool, thanks for clarifying that, I was never sure
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