Having been a chat mod on here in the past, I have felt partially responsible for what someone does after being triggered in a chat, or when i wasnt there to break up fights, ban trolls etc. that was one of the reasons why i stepped down as a mod. The people running this site are doing this as a service to others who are their peers, who may be closer to them than their own families are. Yes, people can go anywhere quickly online to get triggered, to find tip sharing for anything, ive even seen step by step instructions on suicide (some fool posted a link in chat.. they got kicked, but not till after the link was there for everyone in the room to see ). there are alot of sick people out there promoting crap like that.
RYL wants to be a safe place for people like us, but also being able to give people the freedom to express themselves, part of therapy is being able to speak your mind and share experiences. A major part of ryl to me when i started here was helping me feel like less of a freak. I thought i was the only person in the world doing it, i never heard of it before. Freedom to speak does need to be allowed, but when what is being said can make others here much worse, then it doesnt belong here. I dont think i was the only mod to feel responsible for things they could have caught in time, but didnt. I always feel stepped on when my posts get edited, even when i dont agree that what i was doing was tipsharing (like when i was ranting that i was on medication X that made me gain Y.. I can understand if i was saying, hey, heres medication Q that made me lose P lbs so easily!) It is frustrating when you write a post trying to help someone, but then slam, edited because a mod thinks you were hurting instead of helping. But i I do feel better knowing that there are real people online behind the scenes trying to help keep this site safe, whilist allowing people to express themselves. this is 'recoveryourlife.com' not 'lets.all.hold.hands.and.lead.eachother.to.destruc tion.com' (now that would be a long url)
-brian
'in the quiet heart is hidden, sorrow that the eye can't see'
pugdog - I completely agree with your second paragraph, however, i have to say that when you said:
"Freedom to speak does need to be allowed, but when what is being said can make others here much worse, then it doesnt belong here."
it made me realise that, considering not one person has post reported these type of posts that, according to the RYL rules "aren't allowed" - goes to show it isn't a major problem and that a massive percentage feel absolutely fine/comfortable in talking openly about places where others self harm/the method (although the method is very rarely mentioned from what i've seen) - which to me shows that a good majority of people on the SI board, despite "breaking this rule", feel absolutely fine with the board as it is now.
Also - as Morrigan has stated, it is impossible to please everyone here on RYL, so what may trigger one or two people, won't trigger hundreds of others. Someone is always going to be triggered by something - but that's life sadly, and although people say "Oh but this is RYL, it should be a safe haven" - no, RYL should be a supportive community who can help others towards recovery, not cotton wool them against everything - that worsens there problems rather than helps them. I've been on both ends of the spectrum and i found the more open supportive approach much more helpful than the "There there everything will be just fine *wraps in bubble wrap*" approach.
I'm not talking about the whole of RYL btw, i'm merely focusing on the SI board as this is what the OP brought up rule wise (or atleast that's mainly the board that the rule would apply to).
for once acrasia I actually agree with what you said. We have got far too many rules and we just wrap people up in cotton wool. people will trigger themselves anyway neverlone how many rules we put in place
I do think though we should allow it and stuff.
I also find the rules sometimes a tad confusing don't know if thats just me or what ever
In regard to post reporting - a large number of members don't post report. They simply don't. That's not to say they don't find things triggering - at least, from my talking to them, they don't - but they don't know how to post report, they don't like post reporting for fear of causing problems, they're simply not in the habit of post reporting... There are a lot of reasons why people don't post report, that go far beyond 'people think it's fine, people don't get triggered, there's too much cotton-wooling'.
In regard to people getting triggered outside of RYL: Whenever Harley posts about things like this, he always says that RYL is not supposed to be real-life, it's not supposed to be representative, it's not supposed, even, to 'prep' people for the real world - it's supposed to be a haven for people who do struggle, who are suffering, who do want to 'take a break' from the real world for a minute.
And yeh, I think that result was really interesting, Irene. I mean, yeh, what you said - you can't please everybody, but if we seem to be averaging out ok, perhaps this place is doing alright.
I've learned a lot from RYL, a lot of very damaging stuff. A lot of that was before the tip-sharing rule was really really enforced, like it is now, and some of that was through me modding - so editing out/seeing edited out posts. There's an awful lot of very destructive information out there that, really, isn't suitable for RYL at all, given the nature of the website.
In regard to the summer tips, I struggle with that - on the one hand, I can understand the need to cover up scars - but then, that easily falls into covering up cuts which, as people have said, is against some rules.
In regard to people getting triggered outside of RYL: Whenever Harley posts about things like this, he always says that RYL is not supposed to be real-life, it's not supposed to be representative, it's not supposed, even, to 'prep' people for the real world - it's supposed to be a haven for people who do struggle, who are suffering, who do want to 'take a break' from the real world for a minute.
Which I am thankful for. However, I know how damning an environment without stressors can be.
Lol Jo your first paragraph said exactly what I wanted to say! Time and time again there are threads saying 'well ive seen this,this and this member break such and such a rule and the mods dont do anything.' Well...id say about 90% of the time we rely on other people to post report, we need members to do it and if theyre not doing it and they see something thats breaking the rules,then its a disservice to RYL.
We are actually having a look at the rules at the moment to see if we can make them a little bit less confusing, but when youre trying to cover all bases it can be difficult to make the rules simple.
RYL is supposed to kind of be cotton wooled, people come here to get away from their real life and I think purposefully letting material slide that will trigger members isnt always helpful.As Jo said, Harley has always stated that RYL isnt real life,its not supposed to be.
Id like more people to reply who are comfortable with the rules as it stands, because it seems in all these discussion that these people feel like they cant speak up. That survey was so interesting in conveying the feelings of the people on RYL and I think were at an average, on the whole people are happy with the amount of info etc available.Cant please everyone.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
Which I am thankful for. However, I know how damning an environment without stressors can be.
But you still have your real life with your stress right?
I just dont think RYL is responsible for being like 'real life'
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
You should beable to say "I've cut in X area, i feel like a freak" and have people say they cut there too
As far as I'm aware, as long as its not 'I cut here its close to veins/easier to hide/whatever' then you can. Maybe i've mis-interpreated the rules.
But yes, Jo and liv make very good reminders. RYL is NOT supposed to be real life in any way, shape or form (its a website, how can it be?). It is also not a half way house, between mental illness and 'real life'. its jsut supposed to be somewhere safe.
And no one has yet answered my question. If the rule 'well we can go elsewhere to trigger ourself' was apllied, we woudl have to allow methods of suicide, thinspiration etc. Now, is that really a good idea on a self harm RECOVERY website?
i think pictures with scars in, whilst they can be triggering, are allowed becuase RYL is supposed to be a place where you can be yourself, warts and all. For some people, its the ONLY place they would ever be able to show their scars and not think of themselves in a self concious way. It's nto that people shoudl go out of their way to show there scars in a photograph, jus tthat it doenst matter if they do. I explained that really badly :/
"I would be almighty in my own world of art, even if I had to paint my pictures with my wet tongue on the dusty floor of my cell." -Picasso
"No, painting is not done to decorate apartments. It is an instrument of war." - Picasso
'I have scars becuase I have a past; but they, like my past, do not define my future'
I still have a problem with posts asking for good excuses for cuts and how to cover up so family dont see. To me thats tip sharing to keep self injury a secret when really people should be seeking help.
Isn’t it funny how day by day nothing changes but when you look back, everything is different…
you once called your brain a hard drive, well say hello to the virus.
^ I do too, somewhat. I understand not wanting to show scars/cuts out of fear of people's reactions... but hiding them because you don't want to be sent to a Dr/parents to see and shout it's a bit...hmm.
People in the ED forum wouldn't be able to ask for advice on how to purge in a way that means they won't get caught... is it the same idea? Or different concepts?
[crazy]girl - I'm glad if your question was answered ;) The rest of the thread, I think, is not all aimed at you. It becomes obvious time and time again that debates on RYL tend to run away from the original question ;)
MeaCulpa - I think the two are related, but not identical. Tips on how to purge so that no one will notice is covering up an act of the ED itself - covering up harmful behaviour, as it is, and thus I'd place it right next to "tips on where to cut to avoid anyone noticing". Tips on covering scars is similar, but it hides the result of that harmful behaviour - not quite the same, I think? I'm not explaining well what I have in mind. But like.. covering scars may be necessary years after they were done in the first place, and for a number of reasons apart from having people in your life find out.
(For example - my friends and family know I used to cut, and I don't hide at all. But I'll have to go job hunting soon and then I'm definitely going to cover up scars.)
I'm a bit conflicted on that kind of advice, too, though. It would probably be better for people to seek help in real life instead of getting tips on how to avoid that on here - but then again, as I said, I can see quite a few reasons as to why it would be necessary.
Face your life
Its pain, its pleasure
Leave no path untaken
^ yeah im confused about that too!
covering up because your ashamed or in front of children\boss etc is a good thing i guess, but covering up because you dont want to tell anybody\go to the doctor.. keep it a secret, etc, i would consider the latter one tipsharing?
i dont know i guess though. now im all confused hahha
"They say time heals all wounds. I don't agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessons, but it is never gone." - Rose Kennedy
whoops you just totally anwsered my question!
heeee sorry! lol
"They say time heals all wounds. I don't agree. The wounds remain. In time, the mind, protecting its sanity, covers them with scar tissue and the pain lessons, but it is never gone." - Rose Kennedy
But then again with the covering up things being tipsharing, being "found out" about self-injury before a person is ready to seek help is surely a bad thing as it's adding an extra stressor to their lives and in some cases may even mean they cannot self-injure and are left with no coping mechanism to deal with their feelings.
As much as I'd encourage everyone to be open and honest and seek help in recovery the fact is it takes most people a fair old while before they reach that point and I believe people can't be forced into recovery, that's far more likely to make them dig their heels in and try and oppose it than when the decision comes from themselves and is their choice.
MeaCulpa - I think the two are related, but not identical. Tips on how to purge so that no one will notice is covering up an act of the ED itself - covering up harmful behaviour, as it is, and thus I'd place it right next to "tips on where to cut to avoid anyone noticing". Tips on covering scars is similar, but it hides the result of that harmful behaviour - not quite the same, I think? I'm not explaining well what I have in mind. But like.. covering scars may be necessary years after they were done in the first place, and for a number of reasons apart from having people in your life find out.
(For example - my friends and family know I used to cut, and I don't hide at all. But I'll have to go job hunting soon and then I'm definitely going to cover up scars.)
No, that made a lot of sense :). I'm with you on your points.I see what you mean about coving up results, rather than the actual behavior. Like, in the ED forum earlier I posted a reply to a thread about fixing potassium levels in someone who purged... I said the only way to fix it is to stop purging, covering up the results is futile if the harmful behavior doesn't stop.
The difference makes sense in my head now, but I think i've just confused the hell out of the rest of you :P Feel free to disreguard, I was just posting my thought trails hah!
Last edited by Bellatrix : 14-06-2009 at 04:14 PM.
Reason: spelling
But then again with the covering up things being tipsharing, being "found out" about self-injury before a person is ready to seek help is surely a bad thing as it's adding an extra stressor to their lives and in some cases may even mean they cannot self-injure and are left with no coping mechanism to deal with their feelings.
As much as I'd encourage everyone to be open and honest and seek help in recovery the fact is it takes most people a fair old while before they reach that point and I believe people can't be forced into recovery, that's far more likely to make them dig their heels in and try and oppose it than when the decision comes from themselves and is their choice.
It's a difficult one, I think "tipsharing" is the wrong term. However when I read and heard about less common places in which people injured themselves, and indeed other methods used - this did feed the obcessive negative self-harming voice in my head and result in me doing the same (although when I was SI-ing the whole social network internet thing existed support came through a newletter called SHOUT. Anyone old enough to remember SHOUT?)
Having said that, there are some forms of self-harm that I never resorted to, despite the thoughts and some that I had no desire to do however much I read about them. I really don't think anyone who self-harms is looking to "trigger themselves" or looking for tips - It's more that self-harm takes over a persons life, When I was self-harming every act of self-harm would reinforce the negative obsessive self-harming voice in my head - which would make me obcessed with hurting myself, even though I didn't want to be. For me self-harm had alot in common with OCD, people with OCD do not tip share, yet talking about similar kinds of problems without the opportunity to explore ways of overcoming them can increase distress and self-defeating behaviours.
My posts are always recovery orientated, I never share what I did, where I did it, what I used or graphically describe the results. However I do go into honest details about my emotions and the consequences self-harm had on my life and I describe my negative voices. For this reason I mark alot of my posts with a trigger warning.
I've run self-management courses for people who have experienced severe mental distress. In the groundrules, I always insist that people do not share graphic details of SI, suicide or abuse/trauma - they can talk about these things just not in details that would distress others. In terms of self-harm and suicide attempts this means not sharing about methods used and graphic detals about the injury.
I get what people are saying about people being able to find more graphic stuff elsewhere - but I really feel RYL should be a place that is more about support and recovery. If people want to go more into details, let them look elsewhere. I do find some of the stuff on RYL disturbing, such as people who post that they have just OD'd when really they should be calling an ambulance. Others here are powerless to help in this situation - I'm not triggered by this, but I'm older (37), I do wonder how young people cope with this.
It's taken me until being 7years free to be able to visit/post a self-harm forum. I like RYL because of it's groundrules. In the past (before getting free of SI) I visited other forums and this caused me to dangerously relapse after a year.
Because RYL has good groundrules it's more likely to also attract people who are SI free and able to help those still struggling, but without these groundrules those further on in their recovery would not be able to visit.
All good face to face support and self-haelp groups have groundrules for group members safety, so why should forums be exempt from this?
i have briefly read this throug, and i fear i may be about to repeat a lot of other people so:
- i dont think there is a 'unique' place to cut, im sure we've all strayed away from just one area, even if that is where most of our negative attention is focused, in that respect, i dont understand that rule.
-I do understand about not being able to share methods, because, everyone knows about razors, knives etc, but anything a bit.. unusual or whatever, shouldnt be something people can accidentally stumble accross. Yeah you could google it and come up with loads of stuff, but RYL is a safe haven.
- Its annoying when everyone says 'we are being cotton wooled' yadda ya, and then continue to post here every single day, and make repeated support threads.
If you dont like the rules, either ask someone to explain, or go elsewhere.
RYL is NOT real life, it is not therapy, it is not any of that, it IS a cotton wooled environment, it IS a place away from real life, away from triggers, away from all that stuff.
it IS only the internet.
-I dont understand the fact that you cant say that 'you should cut here because its easier to hide' yet you can say 'continue to cut your arms, and we'll TELL you how to hide it'
-I dont understand the fact that you cant say that 'you should cut here because its easier to hide' yet you can say 'continue to cut your arms, and we'll TELL you how to hide it'
exactly.
Isn’t it funny how day by day nothing changes but when you look back, everything is different…
you once called your brain a hard drive, well say hello to the virus.
). there are alot of sick people out there promoting crap like that. 
'in the quiet heart is hidden, sorrow that the eye can't see'
![[Purple_Rain]'s Avatar](image.php?s=f1bac1a7cfd8dd31cd90d5b12602e980&u=153&dateline=1251793099)
