bare with me here, we tell people on this site, that this site isn't instead of professional help, but to be used with.
Now I have never met a therapist yet who encourages people to ignore things that upset them & push them away & bubblewrap themselves. It all been about expanding & having a fruitful life,
now if someone is in therapy & using this site, surely they are having a contradiction of help & that can't help them at all,
of course you could then say that they should have the sense to move away from the site if it contradicts their therapy, but if they aren't being encouraged to look after themselves on this site, how can you get them to focus more with their therapist & not this site?
the whole thing is messy & a contradiction to their well being.
I actually think it makes people worse off protecting people from their triggers. How are they going to learn to cope if they have nothing to build with?
"Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self esteem, first make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes." - W. Gibson.
To me, that is similar to saying that alcohol should be left around the room in an AA meeting. Alcohol is in every day life so they should 'man up' and get used to it!
"I would be almighty in my own world of art, even if I had to paint my pictures with my wet tongue on the dusty floor of my cell." -Picasso
"No, painting is not done to decorate apartments. It is an instrument of war." - Picasso
'I have scars becuase I have a past; but they, like my past, do not define my future'
To me, that is similar to saying that alcohol should be left around the room in an AA meeting. Alcohol is in every day life so they should 'man up' and get used to it!
Actually, that almost seems like a good idea to me. Let me explain..
If the alcohol was at the AA meeting, then everyone would be exposed to it. But, everyone would be supporting each other in not drinking it. In the end, that could be a very positive experience, having been around alcohol and not drinking it. It could give people more confidence in their ability to recover.
In my mind, that is how RYL could be. Something triggers you? Tell someone and let them help you sit through that trigger.. it will only make you stronger.
If anything, this IS a safe place where it should be a good 'trial run' if you will, to be able to have people support you in resisting the urges after being triggered. You gain confidence when you successfully resist, and even if you slip up, everyone is right here to help you try again.
Actually, that almost seems like a good idea to me. Let me explain..
If the alcohol was at the AA meeting, then everyone would be exposed to it. But, everyone would be supporting each other in not drinking it. In the end, that could be a very positive experience, having been around alcohol and not drinking it. It could give people more confidence in their ability to recover.
In my mind, that is how RYL could be. Something triggers you? Tell someone and let them help you sit through that trigger.. it will only make you stronger.
If anything, this IS a safe place where it should be a good 'trial run' if you will, to be able to have people support you in resisting the urges after being triggered. You gain confidence when you successfully resist, and even if you slip up, everyone is right here to help you try again.
Actually, that almost seems like a good idea to me. Let me explain..
If the alcohol was at the AA meeting, then everyone would be exposed to it. But, everyone would be supporting each other in not drinking it. In the end, that could be a very positive experience, having been around alcohol and not drinking it. It could give people more confidence in their ability to recover.
In my mind, that is how RYL could be. Something triggers you? Tell someone and let them help you sit through that trigger.. it will only make you stronger.
If anything, this IS a safe place where it should be a good 'trial run' if you will, to be able to have people support you in resisting the urges after being triggered. You gain confidence when you successfully resist, and even if you slip up, everyone is right here to help you try again.
I get the theory. But while that may be how RYL COULD be, it's not how it IS. Because it seems to me that when people say they're triggered by something, more often than not people don't react with compassion, but rather with derision and tell them to get over it. Isn't that what a few pages of this thread are about? ;)
I get the theory. But while that may be how RYL COULD be, it's not how it IS. Because it seems to me that when people say they're triggered by something, more often than not people don't react with compassion, but rather with derision and tell them to get over it. Isn't that what a few pages of this thread are about? ;)
No, people are reacting to the fact that the triggers are being covered up. They are saying that you face them in the real world and need to learn how to deal with them. They are not saying that they will not support people through their triggers so that dealing with them becomes easier.
I do think that there can be a pejorative response by some people on RYL to people admitting to being 'triggered'/'oversensitive' about things that others are not. I think, if we are going to create an atmosphere which is (and I hate this term) less 'bubble-wrapped', less 'protected', then we need to also be creating one which is more accepting of other people's feelings and sensitivities, so that it feels okay and safe to be open and honest about them.
I actually think it makes people worse off protecting people from their triggers. How are they going to learn to cope if they have nothing to build with?
Exactly. The whole "protect people from triggers" thing is debilitating and a very flawed concept. Triggers are harmless - its peoples conditioned over-reaction to them that needs to be remedied. Its like saying kids should be kept in a sterile environment so they dont get sick. That actually makes them sicker because it weakens immunity.
Ruin had triggers all over the place and it was more robust and healthy even if just because certain realities woke people up to just what they were doing instead of coasting along in the haze of a sterilized, psychotic bubble devoid of life.
Last edited by Isoverity : 12-01-2011 at 01:50 AM.
What we're really after, ideally, is "I respect your feelings, and understand them. And now lets face them and see if you can gradually overcome them carefully and safely together.", yes?
The thing is, in my view, that really is the role of therapy or any other kind of face to face support, not an internet support forum. Or at least for those most deeply engrained 'triggers' especially those in PTSD. I wouldn't say that that was the speciality of peer support.
Like, are we trying to be like a therapeutic community, or a bunch of friends understanding each other as an adjunct to help them through inbetween real time support?
And what about those people who don't have real time support?
What is RYL really?
[NB I'm not really attached to RYL any more, but I thought these ideas were important to look at.]
I have been following this thread for a while.
I do think that RYL is quite 'bubble wrapped' now but then people have asked for these rules to be put in place.
I would be quite happy for the rules to be scrapped (well, not all of them of course) and i would help support people who were triggered.
I dont personally get triggered by much, i take responsibility for my actions. When i was younger, maybe it was different but i was immature and i have a more mature way of looking at things now.
Since this thread appeared, i have set up a livejournal and im using that to rant in aswell as one in the R/V so i can still express myself here and i can in my LJ without triggering anyone.
So, there is a point in having the R/V, i still use it.
and the rules wont change.
as this is a recovery forum, maybe there should be another site for those not quite ready but obviously not pro...but that probably wont happen either so yeah.
I guess we'll have to like it or lump it.
again, my post is pretty pointless.
Through the dark, a strand of light, the light continued to get bright, with it came the strength to fight (Gem)
Maybe it would be useful, as stated by me a million times before, to have a forum section that is not bubble wrapped. And maybe password protect it so that people can ask for the PW and go in and post?
Maybe it would be useful, as stated by me a million times before, to have a forum section that is not bubble wrapped. And maybe password protect it so that people can ask for the PW and go in and post?
On another forum that I am on, (which is a fairly similar size - 5,252 active members, compared to RYL's 6,861 active members, though in total members the other forum actually has more) there is an 'Adult' section. They also have fewer moderators, but they still make this work. In fact, they only have 3 active moderators, compared to the many RYL has, so I don't think it would be as hard as some would say.
I'm not proposing there be a protected section for adults, but a separate section with less, for lack of a better word, wrapping, might not be a bad idea. It is not password protected on this other site, but a usergroup that requires the manual approval of moderators, and then opens a section not visible to the general members. They check out each person who applies and not everyone gets in.
So what could work is each member applying is checked out, for points from rule breaking and when they happened, and maybe a simple thing being filled out as to why someone wants to join etc. Then a set date, like once a month or something, each moderator is to check out some number of members, thereby delegating the work load and minimizing time involved. They mark who they think should be in, and one moderator would add the approved members to the usergroup, which gives them access to the separate forum. Perhaps if someone is not approved, they could reapply a month or something later.
Make sense?
Also, people can be removed from the section on this other site, of course, for various reasons.
That seems like such a lot of work for something that I dont think is needed,thats just my opinon....we have enough work as it is and that seems unnecessary.I dont even mean the modding of another board, thats a whole seperate issue...but having to check everyone out and then once a month having to do the checks again etc.
Also consider the amount of bad mouthing we get when we infract people,it will be even worse if we dont let people into a restricted section of RYL. F&CQ will be overrun with threads from people complaining.
I dont think adding another board solves much, its peoples mindsets that need to change more imo.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
That seems like such a lot of work for something that I dont think is needed,thats just my opinon....we have enough work as it is and that seems unnecessary.
See that's the sort of comment which makes me feel like the minority is irrelevant.
Mods have said so many times in other posts that 'if it helps some, then we're doing good' or the equivalent. This would help some people (judging by the posts in this thread). If it's going to take more work, bring more mods on. There are plenty of people who would be willing/able/stable to do it, and it can still fit within the 'rules' of RYL (as in, no numbers/pics and the like) just more... relaxed about 'zomg this could trigger someone'.
I'm juts sort of tired of being told, only a few of you would benefit from this and because you're one of them your opinions will just be ignored and deemed unnecessary. It *is* possible to provide for everyone. It just needs a bit of personal responsibility and forum organising.
That seems like such a lot of work for something that I dont think is needed,thats just my opinon....we have enough work as it is and that seems unnecessary.I dont even mean the modding of another board, thats a whole seperate issue...but having to check everyone out and then once a month having to do the checks again etc.
Also consider the amount of bad mouthing we get when we infract people,it will be even worse if we dont let people into a restricted section of RYL. F&CQ will be overrun with threads from people complaining.
I dont think adding another board solves much, its peoples mindsets that need to change more imo.
I suppose it is a lot of work, but despite that and despite only having three moderators on the other board and a similar amount of members, it still does work. The restricted board itself (on that site) is less moderated, and the community on that restricted board really does self moderate. The moderators really only step in when something gets very out of hand, and that is rare. All of us members see it as a privilege to be in that section, so we act accordingly. We know if we act up anywhere on the entire forum, it jeopardizes our standing in the restricted board.
I forgot one bit about it. This board has a reputation system, as well as member levels, if you will, so Junior Member, Full Member, Senior Member, Senior Member +. They are mainly determined by post count and time on the board. To join the restricted section, you must be a senior member.
A Junior Member is upgraded to a Full Member once they have posted 25 times and been a member for a week.
A Full Member becomes a senior member when they have at least 300 posts and been a member for 90 days.
A Senior Member becomes a Senior Member+ at 400 posts and a certain level of reputation.
Clearly RYL doesn't have a rep system, and I am not suggesting it should, but if this hypothetical board were created, it would probably be a good idea to have a set time when someone could apply. Like on the other board, you must have posted 300 times and been a member for 90 days, which is basically showing that you are a dedicated member of the community, not just join and then drop off the planet a week later.
Now, I am not sure adding another board would actually solve anything, but as I said, on the other forum, people know it is a privilege and as such generally treat people better.. it may not change a thing, but it also might make the community closer, as becoming a member of that hypothetical section would give people a clear goal to work towards, therefore making them think about their actions before typing a snarky reply or what have you.
See that's the sort of comment which makes me feel like the minority is irrelevant.
Mods have said so many times in other posts that 'if it helps some, then we're doing good' or the equivalent. This would help some people (judging by the posts in this thread). If it's going to take more work, bring more mods on. There are plenty of people who would be willing/able/stable to do it, and it can still fit within the 'rules' of RYL (as in, no numbers/pics and the like) just more... relaxed about 'zomg this could trigger someone'.
I'm juts sort of tired of being told, only a few of you would benefit from this and because you're one of them your opinions will just be ignored and deemed unnecessary. It *is* possible to provide for everyone. It just needs a bit of personal responsibility and forum organising.
Its so not as easy as just bringing more mods in as has been explained many times.
I have never said the minority is irrelevant,what I am saying is that I personally dont think that that is the solution to this.Of course were all about helping people,but we cant please everyone ll the time.
I have never said that because its a minority your opinion will be ignored, I find that a bit offensive that you think ive said something like that :/
I understand its possible I just dont think its the right solution, I think we should work with what we have and see if we can improve that first.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
considering the information brought up in this thread...
Members,not community.
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
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