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Old 10-06-2007, 01:25 PM   #21
BeautyFiend
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneLonelyTree View Post
I cut when i'm not drinking or i'm drinking when i'm not cutting...
Yes, I was the same.
At first smoking was my substitute.
Now I very very rarely go an evening without having a drink.
It's a pretty vicious circle.





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Old 11-06-2007, 08:16 AM   #22
dysphoria
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Lewis said:
Of course I don't understand opiate addiction. I wasn't aiming my comment at you, by the way, more the media which publicises it as a 'safe alternative'. Sorry if it looked like a personal attack on you - I guess I worded it badly!

Ok Lewis, i too am sorry if i sounded a bit harsh. And i apologise if i sound harsh in this post...i don't mean to be, im just being direct. And sorry its a long read, i tend to ramble on and on and on sometimes!
Are you saying you DON'T understand opiate addiction, or do you mean you DO understand opiate addiction?

Cos if you do...then you will realise that methadone IS a "safe alternative" ((to street heroin...where MANY more people O.D and O.D fatally than people using methadone, esp. people PRESCRIBED methadone....The fact is that the media is ((in this RARE instance, when it comes to drugs!)) RIGHT. Methadone is a MUCH safer alternative to using street heroin with all the negative complications that brings. The fact is, that prescribed methadone is no-more dangerous than all the prescribed morphine or pethidine they use in hospitals.

You don't hear the media blame hospitals for using morphine on someone who broke their legs in a car accident do you? The only reason methadone is controversal is because its a REPLACEMENT opioid for an opioid addict. And as we all know too well from the media "drugs are baad" and that means addicts are "baaad" too. Everyone thinks a heroin user must be homeless, destitute, uneducated, stupid, etc. they don't realise that there are many functioning opiate addicts out there ((like many in the medical profession!!!)). So many people think that methadone is just indulging drug users, by giving them an easy way to maintain on an opioid when they ((in their opinion)) "should be clean". Well some people CAN'T stay clean, and WON'T stay clean. And for these people, using methadone can be extremely beneficial; if they want to quit, yet they can't.

I was one of the persons who just couldn't "stay clean". I tried numerous times to quit, both when i started out using codeine ((PURE codeine, so i was able to take VERY high dosages; at the end of one binge i was taking enough to kill two people)) and then later heroin. Without an opioid in my system, i feel incomplete. Like im missing something very important. And im much more sick -mentally speaking. I self-injure MUCH more, and MUCH more severely. When on an opioid, i rarely s-injure at all. And when im not on an opioid, im much more depressed, anxious, and have insmonia. When on an opioid these things are much less severe. I realised i just couldn't quit using opiates/opioids without being on an opioid substitute, like bupe or methadone. As i've mentioned, bupe didn't exactly work, so i tried methadone. And methadone HAS worked. I haven't touched illicit drugs for 3 years now.

And im SURE that i won't in the near future ((the longer you make it without your drug/s of choice, the easier it is))...with the help of methadone. I know if i was pulled off methadone tomorrow, i would go straight back to heroin. Purely to make my self feel "normal". And not depressed, anxious, not sleeping, cutting myself to shreds, using alcohol as a substitute ((and its a sh!tty substitute after you've been on opioids, but you NEED some CNS depressant and alcohol is easy to get and legal so....)).

There are numerous reasons WHY methadone is a much "safer alternative" to heroin ((or other (mis)used opioids))...its not some myth, with methadone you don't get any of the things i listed below, yet you DO get those things if your addicted to heroin ((or another opioid, but mainly heroin));

You have vascular problems as you begin to lose all your veins. You have dire financial problems as your habit spirals out of control. You DO things to get enough money to pay for your drugs...some people resort to dealing, others stealing, or committing other crimes...some people whore themselves out, suck dick or get sucked off to pay for heroin, others work themselves to the bone to pay for their habit. Your relationships fall apart as the drug becomes THE MOST IMPORTANT thing in your life. You become physically dependent on the heroin ((or other opioid, it could be morphine, pethidine, fentanyl, oxycodone etc.)) and get really sick without it.

Then when you can no longer sustain your binge, you go into withdrawals...horrible withdrawals where you get sick as a dog, but WORSE -you know the cure is only a phone call away, and you shoot up one little rock and you'll feel ALL BETTER. Plus the psychological symptoms of opiate withdrawals which i think are often over-looked cos it causes physical withdrawals as well...but you have severe depression, severe anxiety, severe insomnia ((in the 7 days it takes to get partially "free" from physical withdrawals, you only get a few hours sleep, even if you are drugged up to your eyeballs on CNS depressants)), etc.

Even for people who are taking say...hydrocodone ((mixed with paracetamol/acetaminophen)) ((lets call it APAP for short)) methadone is safer. Sure methadone is a MUCH more potent and powerful opioid than hydrocodone, but the hydro addict may be killing their liver due to all the APAP ((dunno why the americans call it acetaminophen!?!?))...then methadone could potentially save their life, by saving their liver. Cos "abuse" of hydrocodone with APAP can be extremely dangerous...people don't realize that popping some extra vicoden can really give the ole liver a hefty beating.

The only negative and TRUE negative thing about methadone, is its withdrawals. It's withdrawals are worse than heroin withdrawals or morphine withdrawals, mainly cos the withdrawals are so prolonged ((cos methadone is such a long acting opioid)). Where as it may take a week or two to get over the physical withdrawal symptoms of heroin, it may take weeks or months to get over methadone withdrawals. This is one definate negative. And believe me, if i had the opportunity, i would choose to be medicated with MORPHINE instead of methadone due to methadone's severe withdrawal symptoms. This makes it extremely difficult to get off methadone. Although now that buprenorphine is available...one could taper down to 30mg or less of methadone, then wait until your well and truly into withdrawals from methadone, then hop onto buprenorphine. Then stabilze, and taper from there. As its MUCH easier to get off bupe than methadone.

But i think you have a skewed view of methadone. Maybe its cos you haven't experienced opiate addiction first-hand. Maybe its because you've never actually used methadone to come off a dangerous and harmful habit when using heroin. Maybe its cos you've somehow read the wrong information. I don't know. But believe me, methadone is just as safe as the morphine they give to patients in hospital -under the supervision of a doctor, and prescribed to the right person for the right reasons. Now if some opiate-naive person drinks a large dose of methadone, of COURSE they're going to die. But that is the same as using heroin -and many more people die from heroin O.D's than methadone O.D's. This is indisputable. But when methadone ((or ANY opioid for that matter)) is PRESCRIBED and you take the dose that is prescribed for you...you won't die, you won't O.D. You will however, reap the beneficial effects of methadone.

This could be reduced cravings for heroin, getting stabilized on methadone, and possibly using methadone to better your life. Many people have been given the ability to better their life when they decide to use prescription methadone over street heroin. Instead of collapsing all their veins, risking bacterial infections at the site of the injection or other parts of the body like the heart ((a-la endocarditis)), not having any money for necessities, doing "dodgy" things or plain horrible things to get $$$ to finance your habit, risking O.D, risking fatal O.D, ruining relationships with people you like/love cos your too busy chasing down the drug, doing things to get $$$ for the drug, and using the drug....ALL of these things you can AVOID when using methadone. So yes, methadone IS A SAFE ALTERNATIVE to using street heroin ((or, like i said already, some much weaker opioids like hydrocodone, due to the amount of APAP being ingested which is terrible for the liver and can cause liver failure)).

I hope you can see things from my point of view. I know this from the "information" point of view ((i do my research on methadone, heroin, all opioids actually as well as other drugs; but opioids in particular fascinate me)), but ALSO from a "user's" point of view. Again, sorry if i seem harsh...i just disagree completley when you say methadone isn't a "safe alternative" ((to heroin)), because IT IS.

Sorry that was so long, didn't mean to ramble on and on



Good bye to everyone on RYL, for various reasons im leaving this site and i will never return. This may make some of you happy, and others sad. Im not leaving because of the members... Good bye and have a nice life

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Old 11-06-2007, 10:28 AM   #23
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Maybe you should stop hijacking this thread?





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Old 11-06-2007, 02:25 PM   #24
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No need to be rude, BeautyFiend. It was a side topic to the original discussion which I think remained at least partially relevant. It's over and done with now.

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Old 12-06-2007, 05:15 AM   #25
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Well, well, well. If this unpleasentness continues on, this thread is going to get locked. It makes me so mad to see peoples support threads become a stomping ground of bad tempers and conflicts.
Have some respect and decency, and stop making this thread into an arguement.

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Old 12-06-2007, 05:27 AM   #26
dysphoria
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i apologise...i wasn't intending on it to become an argument...if i sounded argumentative in my posts it was un-intentional...im just direct and usually stick to the topic at hand...sometimes i go off on a different tangent, but if its still related to the thread i see no reason this would be an issue. Again, i didn't mean to appear like i was getting into a confilct or having a bad temper....i was having a discussion with Lewis, that's all.



Good bye to everyone on RYL, for various reasons im leaving this site and i will never return. This may make some of you happy, and others sad. Im not leaving because of the members... Good bye and have a nice life

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Old 12-06-2007, 05:34 AM   #27
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Without trying to continue on with aforementioned unpleasantries, your previous post was rather prickly, but this is not just about your responses.
I just find it totally unfair when i see this type of behavour happening to other peoples threads. I mean, if it happened on my thread, i would feel completely awful. Wouldn't you?
I think people often lose sight of how what they say, and how they say it, can affect other people.
I sincerely think some apologies need to be made to OneLonelyTree.

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Old 12-06-2007, 07:48 AM   #28
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Hm. I don't use alcohol as an alternative..I use them together..

I think its the urge to continuely do more harm to myself.

-Matt

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Old 12-06-2007, 09:29 AM   #29
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I try not to do either, as one invariably leads to the other. But that's just me.



"Though, the sick wished not to part with their disease,
As if it made them feel alive"

Don't disrespect my family...
-jen- is my little jelly bean.

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Old 12-06-2007, 03:30 PM   #30
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I apologise for derailing the thread somewhat, as did Dysphoria, and yes, our discussion probably should have been taken to private messages. But the initial 2 or 3 posts were all that was needed. No one said anything else since then, and in fact people complaining about it has only derailed the thread further. We both apologised and put an end to it long ago.

Now, as I have nothing further to add to this support thread, I'm going to leave it alone. Once again I apologise for derailing it, and I wish everyone in need of support here the best of luck. It's not really my area, though.

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Old 12-06-2007, 04:22 PM   #31
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Just to add further to dysphoria's post:

I know methadone is prescribed to heroin addicts who are trying to quit and I've done some research into clonazepam and it would seem that it is a drug used to treat anxiety, but both are seemingly prone to cause addiction and misuse because of the stimulant affect that they have on the users. In particular, I know that heroin addicts can use methadone as a supplement to their heroin intake rather than as a replacement as a way of quitting - which is dangerous really because it makes their bodies more resistant to the drugs, meaning they have to take more and more to achieve the same high. So, both of the aforementioned drugs seem to be legal but I think that both are notorious for worsening addictive personalities and so, not necessarily something I'd suggest to members as an alternative for self-harm behaviours, although I can understand why that could be useful information to people wanting advice on how to deal with drug or alcohol abuse and can ask their doctors about these drugs as a way of reducing their addiction.

I don't really want to become involved in a big debate because I'm not going to pretend that I know an awful lot about the subject but, as much as dysphoria included a lot of positive information about the drugs he mentioned, there are always two sides to consider and I felt that it was important everyone was also aware of the dangers of these types of drugs as well as the manner in which they can help.

(Sorry to hijack the thread even more. *gives cookies*)

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Old 12-06-2007, 11:01 PM   #32
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*post removed*

sorry - this was posted in the wrong forum


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Old 20-06-2007, 09:32 PM   #33
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I drink in place of cutting. Unless I've had more than 2, in which case, I cut while drunk. But the numbness from drinking makes the cutting pointless. It has to hurt if it's going to work. Drinking makes me too tired to fight, and anger makes me drink. Sadness makes me cut. And I don't drink when I'm sad since that just makes me sadder, and cut deeper.



"A loveless world is a dead world, and always there comes an hour when one is weary of prisons, of one's work, and of devotion to duty, and all one craves is a loved face, the warmth and wonder of a loving heart." - Albert Camus

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Old 04-07-2007, 08:36 PM   #34
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i went the opposite way. i cut to keep from drinking. then i realized that it was exactly the same for me. the rush i got from cutting altered my mood just like getting drunk. i would obsess about it the same way as well. now if i cut it is a relapse.
feel free to pm me if you want. i still do not know much about si recovery, but i do know about the booze.



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Old 15-07-2007, 01:20 PM   #35
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i used to cut and burn myself, but i gave up on them. i felt like there was no rush and no point as it wasnt doing me any good, then i turned to alcohol and my depression and misused my antidepressants. not only that, i did things that i shouldn't have with them. and please don't get any ideas from this. please. now i'm taking adavantage of my age and using that to "feed" myself and my self-harming/self-injurying thoughts.

i hope i didn't break any forum rules. i'm just trying to contribute

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Old 15-07-2007, 10:21 PM   #36
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Drinking is so much easier and more acceptable than cutting. I resent it for that (I've not cut for over a year) but still can't go a day without a drink.

Just gets harder cos I've recently given up smoking too. I hate my life.



But I can tell you've been through hell...


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Old 26-07-2007, 08:30 PM   #37
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Id tolike now. bUt be carful as you can end up cutting sorthing whenyou drunktoo and it can be bad casue you dont relisee




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It's that moment in life when you actually feel alive
So live for the moment


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Old 26-07-2007, 09:04 PM   #38
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I agree with Steve's post, one does invariably lead to the other. When I knew I wanted to SI, I'd get drunk first, it made it easier. I still do that I guess, I know the drinking isn't good, just can't seem to stop, therefore the SI won't stop either!!

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