Animals or Humans?

[surprising mystery]

It depends how much I like the person.. if its someone who has been persistently horrible to me.. let them die, and when it comes to pets, I love them to bits, I would much rather save my cat that a nasty person that has made my life hell.. afterall wheres the logic in that.

But other than that, friends, family nice people.. yes, them first.

[Fightstarter_Karaoke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley's Dad

Well, Karaoke, I see where you're coming from, but surely people should be allowed to leave their money to whichever individuals, charities or animals as they please. If the State were to start dictating the rules of legacies (on top of the 40% of inheritance tax which very many people's estates are liable for when they die), then we really are into the realms of the Orwellian, Big Brother world.

I'm not saying people should be forced to leave their money to one person or another, I'm just saying they should have to leave it to a person, or a charity. Authoritarian, perhaps. But not quite to the level of having a camera in everyone's home. People mention Nineteen Eighty Four nowadays FAR too often, to be honest. But I digress.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley's Dad

But you touch on a much more difficult issue when you refer to the millions of poverty-stricken people elsewhere in the world. How many of us are about to spend a few or many hundreds of pounds on ourselves and our families this coming Christmas? Of course we are, because this is family, the gathering together of family, the reinforcement of family bonds - all very worthy and understandable motives.

Of course we're always going to put our families first, and we should. But that's no reason why the EU pays farmers NOT to grow food while Zimbabweans starve...ugh. Apparently that's stopping soon, though. I wonder how much grain you could buy and ship to Africa for that amount of money...hm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley's Dad

Yet of course every pound we spend on ourselves is one which we just might (if we were high-minded enough) have given to some African, or other, Charity instead and saved some innocent child in Darfur or elsewhere. But where does one stop and to what extent should we feel guilty about anything we ever spend on ourselves?

Pretty much what I said above. Nearly all working people in Britain are only wealthy because of the relatively cheap price of consumer goods, owing to the massive amount of infrastructure in our nation and extremely favorable trading agreements. It's up to our government to make investments in poorer nations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harley's Dad

Answers in not more than 20 words on a postcard please! My apologies if this is touching on the heavy - I have no easy answers ... tho', come the crunch, I put my own family first.

But...there is no crunch.

[Harley's Dad]

Not trying to stretch this out, Karaoke (and thanks for your excellent response), but I still find that being lucky enough to live in a relatively wealthy Western country leaves me with some feelings of guilt - when I view the rest of the poverty stricken world.

I do subscribe to quite a number of charities, but then more and more appeals come pouring in with the post almost daily and one is left feeling shitty about binning them - but one can't support absolutely everything.

However, this thread was originally about to whom you'd extend help when you had to decide between animals or humans. I vividly remember the tabloid photos of Sefton and other horses lying dead or injured in the Mall, and very compelling they were (and I can entirely understand the News Editors concerned deciding that the photos were front page stuff). But equally I share the view of fellow officers in the Army that it was disgraceful, in a sense, that so little equivalent publicity was given to the soldiers who'd also been killed and injured in the same atrocity.

I suspect I'm beginning to sound repetitive, for which I apologise, so I'll now shut up ...

Tony.

[Fightstarter_Karaoke]

People always react more to the suffering of animals than they do of people-animals are never traitorous or hurtful, so people are more sympathetic to their plight. It gets me rather annoyed, truth be told. Regardless of how right or wrong testing on animals is, it's nothing compared to the brutality and tyranny bought on by governments on their people, often governments outright supported by our own, or at least sold weapons to by our arms companies (Saudi Arabia et al).
In short, I think we should remove the beam from our own eye, before removing the splinter from animals'.

[Scumbelina]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Rose

I dont have a cat but i'd save my dog and let my worst enemy burn in hell.

Same here.... but then you'd be in the papers & up for manslaughter & you'd have the family to answer to. I'd still do it though & just say 'I assumed he'd get out by himself'

[chasing bliss]

I love animals, and there are animals I know with far better personalities than people I know, but humans always win.

Sure, people are capable of treachery and cruelty and all sorts of horrible things, but they are more complex than an animal could ever be, and they are capable of pain and suffering beyond anything an animal could experience. Their lives are longer, the bonds they form are more profound... And quite frankly, I don't want to deal with the family of my dead enemy after choosing my cat over him or her. Do you have any idea how quickly they'd sue my ass?

[Scumbelina]

My enemy IS my family so my dog still wins....

& look how cute she is \/ \/

[Captain Nemo]

[quote]but they are more complex than an animal could ever be, and they are capable of pain and suffering beyond anything an animal could experience. Their lives are longer, the bonds they form are more profound...[/QUOTE]

I didn't know we were that vastly superior. All those fantastic human emotions which lead us to experiencing deep pain and connections come from the mammalian brain, meaning all mammals have it. It could be argued that anything below a lizard is incapable of experiencing pain like we are, but anything above a rat is. Dolphins, whales, primates, and even dogs display high levels of intelligence and communication abilities.
Your statement is highly speculative. Animals can suffer depression from loss just as a human would, a lifespan varies per animal, and we *are* what animals could ever be.

[Douglass]

humans are animals.

so yea, priorities are the people I actually like.