Im not siding with one side or the other,where as the majority on this seem to be,that's why i commented,to offer a different perspective,maybe i shouldve chosen my wording better,its something for me to think about when.i post replies.
Though i do draw the line at basically being told to pee off somewhere else just because i offered my view.
Very welcoming.
There are no sides, thats the whole point of this thread, to stop there being sides.
Who has told you to pee off?
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
This is quite irritating....to me it seems that we are making head way, there has been discussion which has brought out issues, some false information has been rectified and were trying to meet a consensus that works for everyone.
Whats the point in cutting off the conversation when we are trying to understand each other and come to some sort of resolve? If conversation stops now it will just go back to how it was, its important to see things through to a solution otherwise what was the point of the last 9 or so pages?
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
im sorry. just never mind. it just seemed like the same conversation had gone on for 6 or 7 pages now. and generally once conversations get that long, they reach a stagnant point i think where things keep going around and around. that is just my impression though, and i apologize. i was not suggesting that this should never be talked about again, i was just suggesting that a break from the conversation might be good for a while. continue on though
Last edited by PassedExpectations : 27-01-2013 at 04:48 PM.
this is my magical medicine cabinet. Left to right they contain: courage, hope, calmness, and strength.
The magical part: They NEVER run out, so borrow some any time you want.
Yes, but the problem is not with the people themselves, but their actions. I agree with Liv, I feel this has gone very well and everyone has listened and we are all talking about it like adults and we're making some headway.
ok, i take back what i said. keep going on. i'm sorry that i've annoyed people
i like what has been said about separating people from actions.
i see from the bottom that there are people reading this thread who haven't said anything at all or in a while. please feel free to join the conversation.
Last edited by PassedExpectations : 27-01-2013 at 04:54 PM.
this is my magical medicine cabinet. Left to right they contain: courage, hope, calmness, and strength.
The magical part: They NEVER run out, so borrow some any time you want.
So, I'm going to go ahead and respond to this because as a relatively new member who is outside of any 'cliques', as it might offer a different perspective.
Personally, I don't mind about anyone posting memes/using private jokes/referring to real life events provided that:
- Other members are made to feel welcome
- People are clued in on jokes/events if they ask for clarification
- Support is offered as well as just using the place to chat and catch up
As far as I've seen, everybody on the board who appears to be affiliated with any particular group of friends seems to do this. The only thing I find slightly awkward is that if a new member becomes friends with someone within a clique, is there then an obligation to get to know the rest of their friends? I've tried to retain a degree of anonymity on these boards and for me, the idea that revealing my name to one person means that other people find out makes me a little uncomfortable.
But, aside from this, I can't see any problem. As long as people remain respectful, everyone should have a choice in how they interact with the site. Thousands of people must register to RYL and lurk, and that is their choice. If others want to post frequently, meet in real life and make RYL somewhere to socialise as well as seek support, then so be it.
Before joining, I personally found it really helpful to be able to get an insight into peoples' sense of humour and interests. It made me feel more aware of the type of site I was joining, and that has been far more helpful to me than a closed board on one that is overly prescriptive.
But is hasnt been person specific has it?I understand where youre coming from but I dont think that was the intention.x
People seem to want to make it about particular people and a particular group, for some reason. Apparently this thread is now only about the so-called 'QK' clique.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassedExpectations
i think the discussion on cliques has worn out, and isn't going to get anywhere farther at the moment. i'd really appreciate it if we could refocus..
I'm sure you are just trying to move the discussion on (I agree that this will probably end up going around in circles), but since we are being all open, some of your posts are coming across a little patronising. It's as if you are a teacher trying to control a class of normally unruly children who are managing to do their work for once. I don't think anyone needs to be thanked or praised for managing to hold an adult discussion, for example.
Yes, but the problem is not with the people themselves, but their actions. I agree with Liv, I feel this has gone very well and everyone has listened and we are all talking about it like adults and we're making some headway.
It'd be a shame to stop it now.
Im quoting in agreement but Im basically agreeing with you agreeing with me Agreeception!x
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
Clare, not meaning to be argumentative or anything, but tbh, this did turn into a discussion about 'QK' because this group seems to be the one the issues at the moment are arising from.
That said, I am aware that this conversation has happened a few times when there have been groups that seem to be overtaking RYL.
At the end of the day, that is the dynamic of the site. It seems like this isn't the first time, nor will it be the last that people have issues with these groups.
I personally feel that this thread has helped me see how people percieve this group, and I am unhappy that it took this for me to see how people feel about us. It shouldn't have come to this, but it did. I for one intend to learn and move on from it.
When I first joined RYL I felt intimidated by groups and their in-jokes. And tbh, I do still feel like an outsider to RYL even though I do try to contribute to the site as much as possible. I think my issue here though is my own problem and not anyone elses.
Last edited by offlineforever : 27-01-2013 at 06:07 PM.
Clare, not meaning to be argumentative or anything, but tbh, this did turn into a discussion about 'QK' because this group seems to be the one the issues at the moment are arising from.
When myself, and others, have tried to discuss other groups, or other related issues it is stopped with "they aren't a part of QK" or "this is about QK". So is it that people like myself are focussing on that one group, or is it because that group won't let it move away from them onto a broader discussion?
I don't think keeping all the focus on one group of people, or in this thread a few people who seem to be talking for the group, is particularly helpful. It does come across as targeting one group, when it doesn't have to.
And tbh, I do still feel like an outsider to RYL even though I do try to contribute to the site as much as possible. I think my issue here though is my own problem and not anyone elses.
I think this is a really interesting point, and one I keep thinking about when I consider replying to this thread, which I'm a bit nervous about for my own reasons so bear with me as I'm not sure how to word it.
Basically I really relate to this point, and as someone who isn't part of any group or clique, need to recognise my own part in that. I don't think I've ever got the feeling that I would be unwelcome if I were to try and engage in any RYL group, but for my own reasons which aren't specific to RYL but rather my whole way of interacting with people, I haven't made the effort.
So what I am, perhaps contentiously, saying, is that I don't think it's just up to the 'cliques' (hate that word, but you know what I mean) to work to involve people who aren't involved, but up to those people themselves to pluck up the courage to interact.
That said, it's warming to hear that people want to generally involve each other and to think about how to help those more nervous people to do so. As I do empathise and recognise how frightening and difficult that can be to come into an established group.
When myself, and others, have tried to discuss other groups, or other related issues it is stopped with "they aren't a part of QK" or "this is about QK". So is it that people like myself are focussing on that one group, or is it because that group won't let it move away from them onto a broader discussion?
I agree, it does keep coming back to that, but I ponder if the issue here is that QK members feel like they are being attacked for being a member of an outside group? That is how I feel about it tbh. But Also, I can see why people have issues with it.
And I am now going to drop the QK issue as it is going in circles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dash
I've read this thread from start to finish. I'm a bit confused and bemused, have no idea who the QK are, or anything about any of them. For what it's worth, I felt this summed it up.
With anything like cliques, as long as no rules are being broken, then any issues remaining are the responsibility of the person and the person only, not the other people.
I too felt like an outsider when I arrived. I worked my arse off, became known for support and felt, at that point 'included' because I was 'needed'- that was all hollow because I was just 'used' by people. I was still an outsider. I felt like an outsider when I wasn't a mod, when I was a mod, after I was a mod (both times). I would consider myself disliked/hated and I know I am, and have never been, part of any clique.
But all those are my issues, and not anyone elses (again, as long as no rules have been broken). It's my issue if I don't like a person, it's their issue if they don't like me. If I don't like a person, what do I do about it? Generally, I avoid them, because my dislike of them is my issue, not theirs.
Feeling lonely, isolated, a outcast, and more, is going to be so prevalent on a site like this because they do often come hand in hand with depression, but that doesn't mean that the situation is what and how you feel. That is 'just' how someone feels, and will likely differ from what someone else perceives.
So, in these situations, it's often a case of looking internally and working out what's going on and what we, as individuals, can do to change the situation we find ourselves in and how to make it better for us. That's not easy, but we are responsible only for ourselves, not others.
Over the years I've worked hard and tried to change the things I've felt needed changing (things like 'bully to avoid being bullied', upping the support posts on forums/people who weren't receiving much, working to improve the support department WAY in the past), and it never worked- both due to me (often due to me) but also due to circumstances as well. Now I just accept how things are. when I want to, I come on and post, and when I don't, I trundle off, look but don't sign in, visit other places where I feel welcome, feel comfortable and dislike things less- ultimately though I will always come back to RYL, I would guess, because, despite it not being as it was, and me not feeling as I did about here, it is still 'home'. All swings and roundabouts.
And- this is totally off topic, but I swear earlier on in the thread it mentioned about just posting on the thread to remind people to stick to topic or get back on topic, and that was sort of done here, in that it was an effort to diffuse a situation, and the person was shot down in flames.
And I am not entirely comfortable with posting this so I'll probably have a panic and delete this in a bit.
I agree with all that Dash has said here too actually.
i'm being thankful because i was scared that i would start a war and it would be all my fault. fighting upsets me, and i'm thankful because since i'm already feeling ill, and insecure, and indecisive, i don't think i could handle arguing right now. i'm sorry it is coming across as patronizing, i was trying to be nice. i was under the impression that it was positive to point out what people were doing well. i think i'll just leave the thread now if no one minds.
This is why these discussions always fail... People get defensive, people don't like discussion and eventually things will die off.
Last edited by The One Who : 27-01-2013 at 06:39 PM.
My favourite i came up with was
Because
Uber
Fat
Females
Eat
Treats
This is beautiful Charlie!
On the topic of inside jokes. I don't see them as inside jokes, they're just jokes that not everyone knows yet. Though of course I don't expect everyone to find them funny, and I respect anyone's right to think I'm the least funny person on earth. Like there was that thing about 'gooby plz' that people always used to say and I had no clue what it was, but I just asked, and then I didn't quite get it, so I didn't really laugh, but I didn't think it was an inside joke.
I've seen ceeb and buffet and NPD crop up all over the place from loads of people who weren't there at the origination of such jokes, which is why I don't feel like it's a little cliquey in-joke. I've explained QK, ceeb and buffet about 167 000 times (approximately :p), and I think what defines an in-joke is if someone asks what it means and they just get told they won't understand or "oh, it's just an in-joke".
Quote:
Originally Posted by The One Who
Although RYL is a public forum, it is a forum for us all, and consideration and general etiquette should be a part of that. But that sort of thing comes from individuals, not from the top.
But you are essentially saying that you don't think people should be allowed to post stuff that you don't like? So it's not really for us all, it's just for people and things you approve of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shed
So, I'm going to go ahead and respond to this because as a relatively new member who is outside of any 'cliques', as it might offer a different perspective.
Personally, I don't mind about anyone posting memes/using private jokes/referring to real life events provided that:
- Other members are made to feel welcome
- People are clued in on jokes/events if they ask for clarification
- Support is offered as well as just using the place to chat and catch up
As far as I've seen, everybody on the board who appears to be affiliated with any particular group of friends seems to do this. The only thing I find slightly awkward is that if a new member becomes friends with someone within a clique, is there then an obligation to get to know the rest of their friends? I've tried to retain a degree of anonymity on these boards and for me, the idea that revealing my name to one person means that other people find out makes me a little uncomfortable.
But, aside from this, I can't see any problem. As long as people remain respectful, everyone should have a choice in how they interact with the site. Thousands of people must register to RYL and lurk, and that is their choice. If others want to post frequently, meet in real life and make RYL somewhere to socialise as well as seek support, then so be it.
I'm glad you feel like groups on RYL are welcoming. And for the record, I never told anyone your name, don't worry! I think most people round here know the value of privacy and wouldn't disclose what they knew to be sensitive information to others, even their close friends :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by whirlpools
So what I am, perhaps contentiously, saying, is that I don't think it's just up to the 'cliques' (hate that word, but you know what I mean) to work to involve people who aren't involved, but up to those people themselves to pluck up the courage to interact.
I agree with this. Although I would like to try to work on ways that we can make shyer people feel less afraid to post!
I also think that people in cliques shouldn't be shouldered with the responsibility of all the exclusion issues on RYL. I'd still like to make a better effort at replying to support threads of people I don't know, but I think there's things that every single member can do to be more welcoming, regardless of if they're in a clique or not.
I also think that people in cliques shouldn't be shouldered with the responsibility of all the exclusion issues on RYL. I'd still like to make a better effort at replying to support threads of people I don't know, but I think there's things that every single member can do to be more welcoming, regardless of if they're in a clique or not.
I agree with this, its not one persons fault or one groups fault or whatever it is, there is things that everyone can do to feel more involved/less left out. Thats why I think this thread is good, Im sure its not just me that has thought about how to change/improve.x
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
Also, as someone who was around when there have been big cliques before, it has always taken either a thread like this or some form of massive drama for the dynamic to shift for everyone, sometimes we need something to happen to be able to look at stuff objectively, to see the things that we have done wrong and those things that we could be more careful about in the future. I find drama always seems to lead to insight and thats one of the reasons why,compared to a few years ago there is a lot less drama.x
There are times to stay put, and what you want will come to you.
But there are times to go out into the world and find such a thing for yourself.
I aint no abacus but you can count on me.
