But it is maladapative. Yes, I self harm. No, I'm not trying to stop. But I do hope I will one day. And belonging to a site which actively encouraged self harm, would not be conducive to that.
There is a time and a place for discussing self harm, and RYL really isn't it. Anyway, back on topic, OP is suggesting things like:
Quote:
"So i cut myself the other week and its made this really neat scar."
would be okay, which insinuates that the self harm behind it is ok, which essentially glamorizes self harm.
It doesn't matter where you come from; it matters where you go.
No-one gets remembered for the things they didn't do.
We won't all be here this time next year,
so while you can take a picture of us.
We're definitely going to hell,
but we'll have all the best stories to tell.
But it is maladapative. Yes, I self harm. No, I'm not trying to stop. But I do hope I will one day. And belonging to a site which actively encouraged self harm, would not be conducive to that.
There is a difference between discussing it, and encouraging it. I've seen many threads where it seems like it is essentially a woe pit of competition to see who can come up with the most extreme story. I don't think those are particularly recovery-orientated, or particularly helpful or pleasant to read.
I think starting a thread saying that a scar is "neat" is borderline. Although I'm sure there have been similar threads before.
Quote:
There is a time and a place for discussing self harm, and RYL really isn't it.
I completely and utterly disagree. RYL is a forum about self-harm, populated largely by self-harmers. It should be somewhere where self-harm can be discussed openly and freely. Everyone's experiences and feelings are different, and being able to talk about them could well be to the benefit of everyone.
What you've said there is almost like self-harm is a taboo subject!
But some people do find that productive to recovery. Brutal honesty and openness works for some people. Like I said, RYL probably isn't the place for such honesty - but there can be positive outcomes of open discussions.
Also, RYL isn't the place to discuss SI? Then what should we discuss?
But it is maladapative. Yes, I self harm. No, I'm not trying to stop. But I do hope I will one day. And belonging to a site which actively encouraged self harm, would not be conducive to that.
There is a time and a place for discussing self harm, and RYL really isn't it. Anyway, back on topic, OP is suggesting things like:
would be okay, which insinuates that the self harm behind it is ok, which essentially glamorizes self harm.
This whole post. Im not suggesting we change the whole site to be about glamorising self harm. Im not saying that we should actively encourage self harm. Why do you think this would make it so? Admitting that I self harm does not glamorise self harm does it?
I just wanted to say that I think that there should be more discussion in the SH board. Whenever I go on there now it's all "I relapsed again" or "I feel like I'm going to relapse again"
I think we should talk about it a bit more and be more comfortable in doing so. I always feel very hesitant posting things, especially if they aren't completely recovery based. I don't think we should be all "I love self harm, is the best!", but I do wish we could talk more honestly about it.
Anyways, that was probably kind of a useless comment but whatever...
"Some people get by, with a little understanding. Some people get by, with a whole lot more."
I sometimes think that being able to discuss the percieved positives more explicitly would make it easier for people to give suggestions to people who want help. Because not everything works for everyone, and it is fairly situational
He was no longer jean valjean but no. 24601 -les miserable
Some of life's mysteries will never be solved, such as why, after spending an entire evening listenong to Bach, do I find myself humming "the birdie song".......
I am reaching, but i fall, and the stars are black and cold, as i stare into the void of a world that cannot hold- les miserables
It's interesting how many people here are actively saying that self harm can in no way be a good thing (and as a side point - yet continue to SI). Self harm is a coping mechanism - a maladapted coping mechanism - but a coping mechanism nonetheless.
Just because it is a coping mechanism doesn't make it good, it just makes it the lesser of two evils surely?
I think discussing self-harm is different to what the OP suggested in their first post on this thread tbh.
I felt I should throw in my two cents on a few points brought up so far, in no particular order:
1. RYL does not necessarily normalise self-harm. I can understand why some would think it does, but in my case at least, RYL made me realise that I wasn't such a freak for self-harming. There is a subtle but very real distinction between feeling such behaviour is totally normal and feeling like you're not alone.
2. RYL is most certainly a place to discuss self-harm. It's kind of the point of the site, after all. But I think there should be limits to how open we can be. Even if the intention is not to glamourise or encourage, if I were to say "I cut today and I feel so much better, my stress just bled right out of me," I think members in the difficult early stages of recovery might read that and think "god I want to feel that again." If we were to institute a similar complete-openness policy on the ED board, we'd get posts like "I reached my goal weight today and I'm so proud of myself," which would inevitably lead to some members thinking "if she can do it, I can, I just need to restrict more." I would consider that level of openness and honesty acceptable on the R/V board (so long as things like tipsharing and numbers were omitted), but not on boards whose goal is to aid recovery. Posts like that, on those boards, would hinder recovery for some and delay the decision to recover for others.
3. There is a difference between accepting a problem and accepting that you have a problem. The latter is a positive thing - admitting to yourself that you have a problem may help convince you to seek help. But the former is embracing self-destruction, which is definitely not a good thing.
4. Talking honestly about the positives of self-harm will not lead to everyone rushing out and trying it for themselves. But some probably will, whether to experience those positives for themselves or because they feel they need to compete. I'm not saying a frank and open discussion will lead to competition, but it may instill competitive thoughts in some members.
5. If someone is trolling the internet looking for a reason to self-harm, yes, they will find it. We can't stop them, but why the hell should we make it easier for them by potentially making some RYL threads a reason to self-harm? Again, the intention may not be pro-self-harm or glamourising. But it's reckless to assume that people won't be encouraged just because encouragement wasn't the intention behind the thread.
My two penneth:
Whilst i agree there could be more discussion about self harm,the line between recovery oriented and pro isn't something that can be neatly put in boxes,people will view what they find to be pro differently to others,that's without adding triggers into the mix.
If the op had asked whether a discussion about "why people self harm/what people get from it" then id be more inclined to agree with them,but the "neat scar" type discussion could quickly get out of hand-in a competition type way,which usually leads to all hell breaking loose.
So Im against it.
If i joined RYL now, i would not really see it as a self harm support site.
All the general chat boards are above the ones regarding 'issues' and the areas of the forum specifically about self harm are some of the least active.
Personally (totes just my opinion and not the opinion of all the mods/the site/Harley etc) i feel RYL currently does a lot to normalise sitting in a pit of woe and keeping yoursel ill, yet discourages discussion of the practicalities of having mal adaptive behaviours as part of normal life.
Which is quite funny really because at meets and such self harm is discussed as casually as anything else, and even with some humour, yet on a self harm support site, it seems to be taboo.
Lets face it, for the majority of people, self harming is inflicting superficial wounds upon yourself to make you feel better. Most people dont die from it.
Personally (totes just my opinion and not the opinion of all the mods/the site/Harley etc) i feel RYL currently does a lot to normalise sitting in a pit of woe and keeping yoursel ill, yet discourages discussion of the practicalities of having mal adaptive behaviours as part of normal life.
Which is quite funny really because at meets and such self harm is discussed as casually as anything else, and even with some humour, yet on a self harm support site, it seems to be taboo.
<3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exploding Rickshaws
Even if the intention is not to glamourise or encourage, if I were to say "I cut today and I feel so much better, my stress just bled right out of me," I think members in the difficult early stages of recovery might read that and think "god I want to feel that again." If we were to institute a similar complete-openness policy on the ED board, we'd get posts like "I reached my goal weight today and I'm so proud of myself," which would inevitably lead to some members thinking "if she can do it, I can, I just need to restrict more."
To me, that seems like a standard support thread, more so if you added in another sentence about struggling with recovery and the point of it.
As for the ED board, I think it'd be more like "I didn't eat enough today and I'm feeling really good about it. I know this is wrong and need a boost to help me see the positives of recovery."
Like you said, if someone is wanting any excuse to be made upset then they will find it. You say why should be enable them, I say why should we stop everyone else from discussing what they want to?
Just want to say I see this all the time, and how good not eating feels. And when these discussions crop up it breeds discussion about 'what do you get from that and is there anything else that can substitute for that feeling'. So it still becomes productive but allows a frank discussion. I expect the same thing would happen when discussing 'a really nice scar'.
I don't see why this discussion wouldn't be helpful in helping the poster explore their feelings and own them for what they are. There'd still be a recovery slant on replies but it wouldn't remove the ability of frank and open discussions.
I think you should be allowed to. There's a lot of negative energy in the recovery forums that feeds more and more self-deprecation and frustration.
In my opinion, someone who relies on posting threads about how he or she needs help feeling better after doing something bad is not dealing with their problems in the best way. (Apparently it's works in the long run, but how much does it really do to progress (maybe even hinder) one's recovery?) Seeking advice from others about how to feel, what to do, and how to deal with the consequences of actions might not be the best way for some people to approach recovery, because doing so means one takes no responsibility for managing his or her own life.
There is a fine line between glamourising SH and sharing positivity as a way of boosting confidence and applying that confidence towards recovery methods. If that can be done I think it would be fantastic. I wouldn't hold out for it, though. :(
And let hte record show that Charlie is my hero.
Nous avons abrité tous les rêves du monde,
Et c'est dans le soleil que nous avons grandi.
I think it's important to discuss the benefits of self harm to understand why you do it. But that's difference to talking about liking certain scars or tools and the like.
I don't self harm a lot. Most of my time is spent finding reasons not to and I usually succeed. Reading, "I cut and it felt so good" or good things about self harm will flat out make me want to self harm and quite often I end up doing it because it puts thoughts into my head that it's okay "just this one time" because it worked for these people.
Feel free to bash me for my opinion as is the way of the Internet. Thank you.
tu as tant de choses à dire,
mais le tout reste enfermer.
et quand tu ne sais plus quoi dire,
tu te mets à pleurer.
Mais ça ton publique le voit pas,
tu l'incites à rêver, pendant que toi tu le regarde...
I don't self harm a lot. Most of my time is spent finding reasons not to and I usually succeed. Reading, "I cut and it felt so good" or good things about self harm will flat out make me want to self harm and quite often I end up doing it because it puts thoughts into my head that it's okay "just this one time" because it worked for these people.
Feel free to bash me for my opinion as is the way of the Internet. Thank you.
But, then it is your responsibility to avoid what you find triggering or deal with the consequesces of a triggering situation. You cant expect people to not talk about something simply because you find it triggering.
I think we all find something positive in SH'ing, otherwise we wouldn't do it so should we avoid talking about and exploring these feelings because it may trigger someone? Is avoiding them, not just contributing to making these feelings more taboo?
Last edited by Morpheus : 18-06-2012 at 07:17 PM.
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