Appealing section, tribunal, specialist locked unit, help?!
I wont go into full details because I'd be here for hours explaining everything but basically I've been in hospital for five months now. I went in voluntary but I was sectioned after about a month. I was put onto a section 3. Over the past couple of months there had been talk about sending me to a specialist unit. One called The Willows in Newark. It's a specialist personality disorder unit. Anyway, for about 4-5 weeks I was lead to believe it wasn't' happening, it was always a bit up in the air and whenever I asked about it I was never given a straight answer. My leave was increased (over night leave, 8 hours unescorted and as much escorted as I want) - so I thought things were heading in the right direction. Not one nurse thought to tell me anything, I've been kept pretty much in the dark for my whole admission about whats happening with my care. Every time I ask questions I get told 'i don't know' or they tell me they'll find out and never do.
So as far as I thought.. things were going well, I was able to go home and to see my friends, so I assumed that this specialist unit wasn't happening. Admittedly a couple of months ago it was what I needed because I was in a very bad place and did things which were very much life threatening. It was only because of the section that they were able to treat me (I was refusing) and therefore saved my life. So I could understand at that point why they wanted to send me there.
Anyway, I found out yesterday that apparently there is a discharge from this place this week and I'm definitely going?! The ONLY reason I found this out is because there is one nurse who actually gives a crap. But she read in my notes that this has been the plan all along but no one decided to tell me. They were literally going to wake me up one morning and say "Go pack your things!" - all the staff know how much I don't want to go, and all the nurses agree with me that it isn't the right place. I have made a lot of progress and I should be discharged! It's only my consultant that thinks I should go, and therefore can make me!
I got told yesterday that the only way that I can get out of going is to get off my section. I rang a solicitor today and arranged a meeting, but does anyone know how long tribunals take to come through? It looks like I could end up being sent there in the mean time even with my appeal going on.
I don't really know what I'm asking for, hugs, a bit of support I guess? I'm terrified of going. I'm so angry, it doesn't make any sense why they want to send me. I'm on an acute ward, I have unescorted leave, I spend most of my time off the ward and at home, but yet they are sending me to a LOCKED unit? How does that work?
And to make it even better my consultant is on holiday this week and none of the other consultants will make decisions if you're not their regular patient!!
Am I just stuffed and I should accept I'm going? I just think it's ridiculous because had I known I was definitely going I'd have started the appealing process sooner. I'm so angry no one was going to send me and I don't agree with or understand any of it! Even the nurses don't agree and they see me on a daily basis rather than my consultant once every week or two so how can he make a decision like that?!
I'm 20! They're wanting to send me there for a year? I don't want to go!!!!
Tribunals can be organised quickly, because Section 2 appeals have to be done in less than two weeks.
As well as your solicitor, you should be able to.access an advocate. Can you use them to help you negotiate staying on your current ward until tribunal?
It will probably help if you can show that you are doing well on your current ward & on leave, and being 'compliant' with meds and any therapy. Can you come up with an alternative sensible plan which the tribunal might go along with?
It's a section 3 tribunal - my friend who appealed in mid january got her tribunal date through for the beginning of may, surely that can't be legal/right with how long it's taken?!
That's a good idea about getting an advocate for that purpose, I'll sort that tomorrow. I just think it's ridiculous to send me somewhere they don't know whether I'll be staying or not, surely it's in my best interests to keep me where I'm most comfortable rather than messing me around. Then if it comes that I lose my tribunal, send me then?
I am being compliant with all leave, taking meds etc. I'm using as much leave as I can to show that I can cope at home/in the community well. They freely let me come and go as I please so I cannot understand their reasoning to send me to a locked unit? I'm putting a plan together with my CPN to show the Dr. what we plan to do in the community, if I were discharged. He knows I'm doing this but his response when I told him wasn't that encouraging. He pretty much said well you can have a go at persuading me but you're pretty much wasting your time..
It just seems he's the only person who advocates for the Willows. His reasoning being that the hospital has been like a revolving door for me this past year and he wants to put a stop to it. Understandable.. but things over the past few months have changed more than they ever have. I have a new outlook on things, new coping strategies/mechanisms that i never had before. Things, 'I' have changed so much that I know I will do everything I can to avoid ever being in that place again so they don't have any fear of me being back through those doors any time soon. Hopefully never again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck
Tribunals can be organised quickly, because Section 2 appeals have to be done in less than two weeks.
As well as your solicitor, you should be able to.access an advocate. Can you use them to help you negotiate staying on your current ward until tribunal?
It will probably help if you can show that you are doing well on your current ward & on leave, and being 'compliant' with meds and any therapy. Can you come up with an alternative sensible plan which the tribunal might go along with?
Making a plan with your CPN sounds like a really good idea, make your own notes on it so you can talk about it at tribunal. Maybe you could also make a list of things that have changed?
I know it is horrible being on section and not being in control, but try not to panic. It is not just your consultant who will be making this decision, as well as the tribunal, there will also be the team at the hospital you don't want to go to. TCs tend to prefer patients to be voluntary and to want to get something from their stay, so if you really feel it is wrong for you, the other hospital might not take you or discharge you quickly anyway.
I think sadly, as unfair as it is, with a section 3, a tribunal is usually 2-3 months away :( I've never had any section 3 tribunals quicker than that and then one was adjourned for 6 weeks.
I hope things get sorted for you. Even if you do end up going to the specialist unit, it doesn't mean you will end up staying for a year. I know that is the plan at the moment but don't give up hope. On arrival they will keep assessing you and may realise it's not the right place for you and you can also still have your tribunal whilst there.
This sounds like a nightmare situation, I'm sorry you're going through it.
By the sounds of it you know what is going on and what you need so I would carry on fighting the decision as much as you can & get the legal stuff organized as soon as possible. I would also make a strong point of saying that they should have kept you informed of your care plan & involved in the decision at all times and because they haven't done that you have had no time to prepare. Say that you very clearly understand why this might have been applicable before but it is now.
I've been in vaguely similar situations before where I have completely disagreed with decisions made about my care/hospital etc. and fighting does work. It's exhausting but keep on at it. Your consultant should be listening to your views about your care & it's helpful if you have other outside professionals agreeing with you.
Hope it gets sorted. Has anyone suggested PALS? They've been very helpful for me. Someone on the ward should give you the details of your local PALS. They help with complaints and things like that.
I saw the solicitor today. She told me to get my nearest relative (my dad) to apply to discharge me. Thy have to have a meeting and let him know within 72 hours. I'm hoping that with it being more formal that they will really discuss it and realise I don't need to be on the section! Then I can discharge myself and I won't have to go. Failing that it's just a case of waiting to see what happens with the tribunal. Said it should be in 6-8 weeks and in the mean time I'll probably be sent to the willows whilst my appeal is going ahead.. just have to wait and see. :s
I'm glad you saw your solicitor and I hope that your Dad will apply for discharge. Do you think he will lovely? Best of luck with it. It sounds like you have come on leaps & bounds so hopefully they will agree to it. As it's coming up to bank holiday, hopefully you would hear by the end of tomorrow!
I'm really sorry to hear this, though in my heart I was concerned they may not go with it as it ultimately comes down to your consultant and he sounds like he has made his mind up about wanting you to go to this specialist unit.
However, hopefully they will now get your appeal in for process and though I know it feels like forever when you are waiting for the tribunal - it will come sooner than it feels. I know it means going to this specialist unit whilst you wait but just try and deal with it as best you can and use it to your advantage. Keep working hard and proving to them that you are serious about the changes you have made. Don't give them anything to use against you at the tribunal.
That really sucks as it sounds like you've come on a long way.
It does suck that your consultant has so much power - do you have a dr in the community - could he advocate for you?
Having said that I have heard good things about the year long personality disorder treatment places so maybe it's worth really giving it a go and seeing what it's like whilst waiting for your tribunal?
When we lose twenty pounds... we may be losing the twenty best pounds we have! We may be losing the pounds that contain our genius, our humanity, our love and honesty. ~Woody Allen
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This sounds like a horrible situation I am so sorry you have been/are going through this.
I definitely think you should keep fighting your case and keep complying with treatment. A slip up now will give them more reason to keep you and the section.
To be sectioned under the mental health act you have to lack capacity for understanding your situation. You need to ask you team exatally what you are still under the section and in what way you lack capacity? You also need to ask what would deem you as fit for discharge and how long would it take?
You need to ask these question so your know 1) what you are working toward and 2) what you are fighting against.
You say you have been complying with everything including meds, how long have you been complying since? And do you go to day groups or take part in hospital activities?
Sorry your in this situation.
I wish you all the best and hope you get home soon.
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Something I'm wondering is that the section here isn't actually the issue - it may be that this pd unit is what you need to get better long term it just happens that it's locked and you need to be on section to go there??
"Keep your heart open to dreams. For as long as there's a dream, there is hope, and as long as there is hope, there is joy in living."
Good points above. Have you considered negotiating with your psychiatrist about the placement itself? There are unlocked residential PD units out there. Possible suggestions are The Cassel (London) or The Retreat (York). Though he may consider you not to be safe enough for these programmes.
I worked at the Retreat a few years ago. IIRC we didn't often take people on section (at least onto the PD ward), as there's a lot of needing people to take responsibility for themselves in the programme.
Good idea about trying to negotiate with your psychiatrist to go somewhere else, and possibly getting off section to do it!
Keep your head up love. I'm so sorry to hear about this. Bum luck. Keep moving forward, don't let it hold you back. Much love, always. I hope you are well otherwise. xo
Something I'm wondering is that the section here isn't actually the issue - it may be that this pd unit is what you need to get better long term it just happens that it's locked and you need to be on section to go there??
That's why I was sectioned. It was in order to be send to a locked personality disorder ward to have inpatient DBT.
The thing I learnt the hard way was to stop fighting my section. I was on a three as well, and it takes too much energy to fight against it. Put in for a tribunal, because yes they do take a few months to get set up, but then forget about it and focus on the new ward and doing everything they suggest so you can get better.
You've a much higher chance of your section being rescinded at your tribunal if you can prove you've been participating in your therapy, taking your meds and so on. But if you've refused everything and just sat there and said you want to go home then they'll think you've not made any attempt to recover.
I know it's tough. But you can do it.
Isn’t it funny how day by day nothing changes but when you look back, everything is different…
you once called your brain a hard drive, well say hello to the virus.
Thankyou for your replies guys. Especially you Waida, that means a lot. I miss you.
Well I had another meeting with my psych and it's obvious that the only reason that he's keeping me on the section is so if he chooses, he is able to send me to the PD unit. When I told him that I knew I wasn't sectionable and if I were in that position now, the doctor/social worker wouldn't agree to section me - you could tell that he knew I was right, so refused to comment on it.
I tried asking him how much longer I'd be in there, if I was going etc, he refused to comment on everything. He wants a meeting with the nurse I'm closest to, my DBT psychologist and my CPN. It's been impossible trying to get hold of those two this past week so I'm hoping to try again on monday. He said he wants to see what their opinions are, and will be highly influenced by what they say.
So I hope to god they're on my side and think I should be discharged!
Good luck with the tribunal **hugs** xx
